Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
McCarthy Releases 1/6 Tapes to Tucker + Escalation in Ukraine as Putin Withdraws from Nuclear Treaty
Video Transcript: System Update #44
February 24, 2023
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Note From Glenn Greenwald: The following is the full show transcript, for subscribers only, of a recent episode of our System Update program, broadcast live on Rumble on Wednesday, February 22, 2023. Watch the full episode here or listen to the podcast on Spotify.

 

In the aftermath of President Biden's highly melodramatic made-for-TV train trip to Kyiv, where he yet again vowed to send another half billion dollars or so and vowed to support Ukraine until the very end – whatever that might mean – there is real fallout on multiple levels from that trip – in Russia, in China and in the U.S. – as both former President Trump and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis weigh in on Biden's actions. We will report on all of that and examine the implications. 

Plus, more than two years later, we are finally going to see the parts of the January 6 surveillance footage that the House January 6 Committee, led by Democrats Bennie Thompson, Adam Schiff and Republican Liz Cheney did not want you to see. That's because House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has quite controversially handed that footage over to Fox News host Tucker Carlson. 

As you might imagine, most of the corporate media is not particularly pleased about this, which is odd given how often they proclaim their love of transparency, which is exactly what we're about to get. We'll examine the implications of that decision and the very irritated and angry media reaction to it, as well. 

As a reminder, each episode of System Update is now available in podcast form on Spotify, Apple and other major podcast platforms. The episodes are released the day following their live broadcast here on Rumble. 

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update starting right now. 




 

Monologue

 

Over the weekend and into Monday, President Joe Biden made a surprise, melodramatic visit to Kyiv, the kind of presidential trip that all presidents in wartime love to do. Every single president – for as long as I can remember – has made secret, mysterious, high-drama trips into theaters of war – in Iraq and Afghanistan and the rest. The media goes crazy and everybody gets excited. And this is no different. 

President Biden chose a highly popular reporter who used to work at the Huffington Post and The Guardian to be the secret reporter who would accompany him with secret plans that nobody knew about. She was only told that she was going to Warsaw and they traveled dark into the night at 4 a.m. Like a spy thriller. They flew all the way across the world. They landed. They flew again. They got on a train. Nobody knew that this was happening. It was so dangerous because Kyiv is such a dangerous place, such a major theater of war with bombs coming and missiles coming all the time, that the consensus immediately rose, that this was Biden's Churchill moment. It was so brave and courageous and important for our country that he went to Ukraine and met with President Zelenskyy in that olive green costume that he wears wherever he goes. It was all very exciting and all very important for some reason that I don't fully understand. 

However important or not important the meeting may have been, there was certainly a lot of media excitement over it. They had all kinds of historians say that this is one of the most important presidential trips in decades. It was somehow incredibly historic, but there was also a lot of real fallout from it as well, fallout that is likely to endure with us long after the media reaction dissipates. And that's what I want to focus on, examining what the cost continues to be to this proxy war that we seem to be continuing to feel with no end in sight, with no intended end in sight, way with the benefits that are accruing to American citizens, which is supposed to be the role of our government, against the costs that continue to pile up every time we do something. 

So, let's review, first of all, an article from Real Clear Politics, just to review the basics of what happened in particular when President Biden met with President Zelenskyy in Kyiv for this super-secret, dark-of-the-night trip. It was very exciting in and of itself, and it was extra exciting because an air siren went off while President Biden was there, showing how brave he was to go there and to endure these incoming missile fire and to basically risk his life in order to go. As Hillary Clinton said, he took a train to the frontlines of democracy. That's what Hillary Clinton called it: “taking a train to the frontlines of democracy.” Here, though, is something that inadvertently emerged on CNN, that you don't see on CNN very often – which is the truth –. and it was clearly something that was said without realizing what the implications are. Let's watch what CNN told us. 

 

(Video 00:15:46) 

Alex Marquardt, CNN:  I've been here for the past five days. I have not heard any explosions. I have not heard any air sirens until about half an hour ago, right when President Biden was in the center of Kyiv, as… 

 

Well, what an incredible coincidence. First of all – very bad luck for Joe Biden. Scary bad luck. For five days, Kyiv is perfectly calm, as it so often is. Nothing was going on in Kyiv, as the CNN reporter said. He didn't hear a single siren or air attack or anything else. And it was right when the president – just the moment that he stepped out into the public square, that's exactly the moment the air siren went off right in front of the cameras and all over the United States, in The New York Times and elsewhere, appeared the headline “Air Sirens Go Off While President Biden Meets Outdoors With President Zelenskiy”. 

An incredibly melodramatic moment. Our president was in danger, but he didn't care because, like Winston Churchill himself, he was fighting for democracy. He's fighting for our freedom. If President Biden doesn't go to Kyiv, if he doesn't spend $100 billion or more to fuel the war in Kyiv, in six months or so, we may be speaking Russian. That's how close the Russians are to our border. And that's how much gratitude the media has for President Biden for being such a bold and selfless leader that he went on such a dangerous trip, as evidenced by that air siren that went off – which hadn't gone off for five days until the moment he got there. That's when it went off. No bombs came in, by the way. No missiles came in. Maybe it was just that they detected something. Maybe they shot it down there, who knows? But any event, right at the moment that he was there in front of all the cameras, that's when the air siren went off. 

In response to that trip, a lot of things happened. President Biden went right up to the Russian border, a country that sits on the most sensitive part of the Russian border, where the Russians were twice invaded and almost destroyed by the Germans in both world wars in the 20th century. That's a reason why Ukraine is a pretty sensitive place for Russia. If, for example, the Soviet Union got anywhere near the United States, as it did during the Cuban Missile Crisis, we are ready to start a nuclear war over it. For some reason, everybody seems confident that President Putin is not going to do the same – even though Joe Biden is right in the country, on that border, promising that NATO will continue to pour heavy armaments, including tanks, and potentially, next, fighter jets, right into that country – everyone's confident that Vladimir Putin won't do what John Kennedy was going to do and almost did, which is blow up the world because the Russians got too close to the American border. Everyone's calm, everyone's happy. Just keep throwing in weapons and fueling this war right on the border of Russia. It's all worth it because of the immense benefits we as Americans are getting, which we'll talk about in a moment. 

But there are things happening as a result that we should take into account. One of them is that President Putin announced that Russia is officially withdrawing from the last remaining arms treaty, which is called the New START agreement as a result of what he perceives as NATO's and EU’s aggression that has been going on for many years. 

There's the Reuters article and it reads, 

 

President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Russia was suspending its participation in the New START treaty with the United States that limits the two sides' strategic nuclear arsenals. Putin stressed that Russia was not withdrawing from the treaty, but the suspension further imperils the last remaining pillar of arms control between the United States and Russia, which between them hold nearly 90% of the world's nuclear warheads – enough to destroy the planet many, many times over. “In this regard, I am forced to announce today that Russia is suspending its participation in the Strategic Offensive Arms Treaty”, Putin told lawmakers toward the end of a major speech to parliament, nearly one year into the war in Ukraine (Reuters. Feb. 21, 2023). 

 

Maybe you don't care much about arms treaties, but I think it's important to review the history of these arms treaties and why many people thought they were very important, beginning with President Ronald Reagan himself. The Reuters article goes on. 

 

The New START Treaty was signed in Prague in 2010, came into force the following year, and was extended in 2021 for five years more just after U.S. President Joe Biden took office. It caps the number of strategic nuclear warheads that the United States and Russia can deploy, and the deployment of land and submarine-based missiles and bombers to deliver them. 

Russia has the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world, with close to 6,000 warheads, experts say (Reuters. Feb. 21, 2023). 

These agreements take the two countries that have so many different kinds of nuclear weapons – nuclear-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear submarines, they're all over the place – and these arms treaties and the framework of them, which, again, was begun in the 1980s between Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev and has been supported by people all over the world and both political parties for decades because it's a pretty serious matter to have nuclear weapons just about all over the world, with no one controlling how they're used or where they are or how many there are deployed. That's what nuclear arms agreements are for. 

One of the problems, one of the costs of this proxy war that we're now in for about a year – it's about to be a year on February 24 – is that it is now completely destroying whatever remnants of diplomacy exist between the United States and Russia. Again, the countries with 90% of the nuclear stockpile on the planet. As ABC reports, “Russian lawmakers endorse suspension of nuclear pact with the U.S. Both houses of Russia's parliament have quickly endorsed President Vladimir Putin's move to suspend the last remaining nuclear arms treaty with the United States” (Feb. 22, 2023). 

According to AP, what is happening, as the Russian parliament and Vladimir Putin withdraw from that arms treaty, is former Russian president and the current top national security adviser to President Putin, Dmitry Medvedev, came out once again and explicitly warned, in case you just don't believe it's true, they're trying to explicitly say that Russia will use their nuclear weapons if they begin to lose what they actually regard – whether you agree with it or not – what they regard, as an existential war. If they start to lose a war right on the Ukrainian border and perceive that NATO and the West overrunning Ukraine and deploying their military right up to the Russian border, they are telling the world in terms that the United States shall understand, since we would do the same thing if this were happening in Cuba or Mexico or Canada or even in anywhere in Latin America, that they regard it as a threat sufficient enough to them to deploy nuclear weapons, 

Dmitry Medvedev, deputy head of Russia's Security Council that is chaired by Putin, emphasized Wednesday, that the suspension of Russia's participation in the pact was a signal to the U.S. that Moscow is ready to use nuclear weapons to protect itself. “If the U.S. wants Russia's defeat, we have the right to defend ourselves with any weapons, including nuclear weapons”, Medvedev said on his messaging app channel. “Let the U.S. elites who have lost touch with reality think about what they got. If the U.S. wants Russia to be defeated, we are going to stand on the verge of a global conflict”. 

Leonid Slutsky, the head of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the lower house, the State Duma [the Russian parliament] emphasized that the suspension is “reversible and can be reviewed if our Western opponents come back to reason and realize the responsibility for destroying the global security system” (ABC News. Feb. 22, 2023).

 Now, maybe you're somebody who says: look, I don't care about what Russia does. I don't care if they withdraw from every single arms control agreement they have with us. I don't care if they threaten to use nuclear weapons for some reason in this country all the way on the other side of the world that has no oil reserves and no geostrategic importance to the United States, a country that President Barack Obama himself repeatedly said, when attacked by neocons in both parties for not doing enough to defend Ukraine, he would always say, “Why would I risk a war with Russia over Ukraine? Ukraine is a country that's a vital interest to Russia but is not, never has been and never will be to the United States.” I guess if you think that that country is so important, that who rules the Donbas and the eastern regions and provinces of Ukraine is so vital to your life that you're willing to risk all of these things, then okay. But let's at least hear from Ronald Reagan about, despite how a hardened cold warrior he was, despite his view that the Soviet Union – not Russia, but the Soviet Union, vastly larger than today's Russia, much, much more threatening, with a much bigger military – was a genuine existential threat to the United States, notwithstanding his view on that, he was adamant that nuclear arms agreements were vital to the security of the United States and of the world. Let's listen to just one of the times he said so, early in his presidency in 1980. 

 

(Video 00:25:17)


Ronald Reagan, 1982: Others of a new generation must have worried about their children and about peace. And that's what I'd like to talk to you about tonight, the future of our children in a world where peace is made uneasy by the presence of nuclear weapons. I believe our strategy for peace will succeed. Never before has the United States proposed such a comprehensive program of nuclear arms control. Never in our history have we engaged in so many negotiations with the Soviets to reduce nuclear arms and to find a stable peace. What we are saying to them is this: We will modernize our military in order to keep the balance for peace but wouldn't it be better if we both simply reduced our arsenals to a much lower level? This summer, we also began negotiations on strategic arms reductions. The proposal we call a START. Here, we're talking about intercontinental missiles, the weapons with a longer range than the intermediate-range ones I was just discussing. We are negotiating on the basis of deep reductions. I proposed in May that we cut the number of warheads on these missiles to an equal number, roughly one-third below current levels. I also propose that we cut the number of missiles themselves to an equal number about half the current U.S. level. Our proposals would eliminate some 4,700 warheads and some 2,250 missiles. I think that would be quite a service to mankind. 



“That would be quite a service to mankind,” said the person who ran on a platform of challenging the Soviet Union and denouncing it as the evil empire. And he was trying to get the country to understand the situation that Russia and the United States face because of these nuclear weapons – which, by the way, 40 years later are vastly more destructive and powerful than they were then when Ronald Reagan was warning about them, and way more powerful still than when the United States used them, twice, in 1945, in Japan. He was trying to get people to understand, “as much as I believe the Soviet Union is a country that needs to be challenged in every conceivable way, we are much better and safer as a country if we're able to sit down with them, despite all the rhetoric flying back and forth between us, and negotiate these Start agreements, these arms control agreements that will lead to place some degree of security”. And, as he used to say, trust but verify, verification systems on the number of nuclear warheads aimed at one another’s cities, that would just make the world a much less dangerous place. And again, Reagan was somebody willing to challenge the Soviet Union in all kinds of ways with dirty wars and covert wars and any time he thought the communists were getting too close to the United States, in the backyard that he considered Latin America to be, never mind right on the other side of the border, he was emphasizing the importance of this arms control regime that is now unraveling, unraveling almost completely and over what? War in Ukraine over whether Zelenskyy will govern the Donbas or it will be independent or will decide – as Kosovo did – it wants to be subject to the rule of Moscow – or like Crimea did. Kosovo opted for independence. 

The START agreement itself, the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START) I, was signed on July 31st, 1991. I think it's very important to review the history of this so we don't become dismissive about the importance of these agreements. They were signed in 1991. That was when George Bush was president, by the United States and the Soviet Union. 

 

This is the first treaty that required U.S. and Soviet/Russian reductions of strategic nuclear weapons. It was indispensable in creating a framework that ensured predictability and stability for deep reductions.

In December 1991, the Soviet Union dissolved, leaving four independent states in possession of strategic nuclear weapons Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. This caused a delay in the entry into force of the treaty. On May 23, 1992, the United States and the four nuclear-capable successor states to the Soviet Union signed the Lisbon Protocol, which made all five nations party to the START I agreement. 

Reductions of nuclear weapons were completed by the deadline of December 5, 2001, seven years after entry into force, and maintained for another eight years. States were verified by on-site inspections and shared missile telemetry. Both the United States and the Russian Federation continued reduction efforts even after reaching the START limits (Arms Control Association. April, 2022). 

 

That's how successful they were. All of these countries – very different antagonisms and very different interests – not only sat down and complied but continued to voluntarily do it even further, knowing how dangerous these nuclear weapons were. 

Then we get into the new START agreement, which is the one that President Putin just abandoned. That one did the following: 

New START continues the bipartisan process of verifiably reducing U.S. and Russian strategic nuclear arsenals begun by former Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush. New START is the first verifiable U.S.-Russian nuclear arms control treaty to take effect since START I, in 1994. 

The United States and Russia agreed on February 3, 2021, to extend New START by five years, as allowed by the treaty text, until February 5th, 2026 (Arms Control Association. April, 2022). 

 

And now that's what has been put into doubt and suspended. 

So, look at all the costs. You have the financial cost of $100 billion or more. You have the United States depleting its own military stockpiles and now having to buy enormous amounts from Raytheon and Boeing and General Dynamics and all the countries that always profit whenever wars begin. I had Matt Gaetz on my show last week and I asked him, Why is the United States so obsessed with Ukraine as it's been since at least 2013, if not before when Victoria Nuland was running that country for the Obama administration the way she now is for the Biden administration? And he told me that Goldman Sachs and all of these hedge funds and banks see Ukraine as an incredibly profitable opportunity because of how corrupt it is. So, we are pouring hundreds of billions of dollars, or $100 billion authorized thus far, tons of weapons, right exactly six months after these arms manufacturers finally lost their major market in the War on Terror when we withdrew from Afghanistan – lo and behold – there's a new war. 

So, we're putting all those costs into it. We're depleting our own stockpiles. We're unraveling the nuclear arms reduction agreements that President Ronald Reagan started and himself said were indispensable to future generations living a safe and secure life on the planet. And on top of that, China is now making gestures toward getting more involved with Russia, seeing that the entire West and all of NATO is backing up the Ukrainians and believing that it's necessary to at least bring some balance – and that's causing China to seemingly get more involved in supporting Russia, either indirectly or by providing the kinds of arms that the United States is providing – though obviously the United States is now threatening China, that they better not do what the United States is already doing in this war, which is providing lethal arms. 

My favorite headline that I've ever seen, was from 2007, when the United States denounced Iran for, “interfering in Iraq'', even though the U.S. was in Iraq with about 200,000 troops – a country that it had invaded just four years earlier – was warning and denouncing Iran for interfering in a country right on the other side of its border when the United States, went all the way to the other side of the world to invade that country. And now the United States is warning China, “You better stay out of Ukraine, you better stay away from Russia.'' Of course, the Chinese are now saying, you can’t dictate to us what kind of relationship we can have with Moscow? And that's raising tensions between Moscow and between Washington and Beijing. And always the overarching question is “for what?” For what? Who is benefiting from this war? If the people of the Donbas region and other provinces in eastern Ukraine are allowed to have a free and fair election that the UN supervises and they decide they want to be independent from the rule of Kyiv and are granted their independence the way Kosovo was, or they decide they want to be part of Moscow because they're Russian speaking and identify as ethnic Russians and are allowed to go and be under the rule of Moscow. What does that do to you? How does that improve your life in any way to have all of your taxpayer money transferred to Ukraine and have us fuel a war there? How is that helping your life? And conversely, how will it harm your life if the United States plays the role of trying to forge a diplomatic resolution to this war instead of preventing diplomacy and fueling the war for its own interests, for the interests of a tiny sliver of the population, namely people who work in the arms industry, who are big shareholders and executives in it, and people who work in the U.S. Security State who always see their authority and budgets balloon whenever there is a war like this? 

One of the things I find very interesting is that there's no debate taking place in the Democratic Party when it comes to this question. The international left is starting to rise up in much greater force against this war. The new president of Brazil, Lula da Silva, has been pressured in all kinds of ways to lend Brazil's support to Ukraine. He absolutely refuses, saying, “Our war is not with Ukraine. Our war is with poverty and in defense of the quality of lives of our people”. Imagine a president saying our goal as a government is to improve the lives of our people, not to fund the war on the other side of the world. He also has said this “good versus evil framework is very ambiguous”, not very clear, given how many provocations there were with NATO in the EU in Ukraine. 

Remember, it was 2014 when Victoria Nuland got caught on tape choosing the next president of Ukraine, of the democracy Ukraine. Why did Victoria Nuland choose the leader of Ukraine if it's such a vibrant democracy? Why is the United States having a neocon like Victoria Nuland, who was Dick Cheney's primary advisor in the Iraq war, picking the leader of Ukraine right on the other side of the Russian border? Do you think we might consider it threatening if the president of Mexico were being chosen in a meeting by the Chinese Communist Party or the Chinese ambassador to Mexico City? Probably. 

But what benefits are there to the United States? There's no debate in the Democratic Party, even while people like Lula and many other international leftist leaders say this is not a war for us. I interviewed Sahra Wagenknecht who is the leader of Die Linke party, the left party in Germany, and you heard her say the lunacy of having Germany risk war with Russia – Germany and Russia, when they have antagonisms, that never ends up well for the world. And she talked about the trauma of Russians seeing German tanks going to the part of the border where Germany twice invaded Ukraine. So, you see leftist leaders, leftist populist leaders and right-wing populist leaders, including in Germany – the alternative for Deutschland, the AfD party, also supporting her and supporting that. It's the EU neoliberal, globalist order, joined at the hip with the bipartisan wing of both political parties, who is supporting this war. And what you're starting to see is increasing amounts of dissent from the right wing populist part of the Republican Party. 

Donald Trump has been speaking a lot in this way for many years and is again on this war – and I’m about to show you this in a minute – but one thing that I think was really interesting was Florida Governor Ron DeSantis gave an interview on Fox News, two days ago, and we have not heard Governor DeSantis speak much on foreign policy over the last four years for a very understandable reason. He had a job, which was being the governor of Florida, that had nothing to do with foreign policy. He was focused on the policy of his state, but he did have a voting record in the House that I would describe as fairly conventionally pro-war, old school Republican establishment. With the notable exception that Governor DeSantis was actually opposed to the intervention in Syria that many people were trying to get President Obama to unleash even further than he did, including Hillary Clinton. People like Mike Pompeo were in favor of that war. As always, there's bipartisan consensus. In Munich this week, Michael Tracey, the journalist who's independent, who's often on our show, showed how members of the Republican Party, like Governor Kristi Noem, of South Dakota, were in Munich wearing shirts like “Ukraine forever” and there was Nancy Pelosi wearing a bracelet of shells from Ukrainian weapons that someone had made for her. That's a completely bipartisan war as all the disastrous wars in the United States are. 

But there is starting to be dissent on the right wing of the Republican Party. Kevin McCarthy has said, “under his speakership, there is not going to be a blank check anymore for Ukraine.” I don't know how much he believes that. But I found Governor DeSantis’ interview, now that he's thinking about running for president and needs to talk about foreign policy, extremely interesting, given that he was, at best, lukewarm about whether the United States should be continuing to fuel this proxy war in Ukraine and how we should be seeing Russia. I found his comments very interesting. Let's look at those.. 

 

(Video 00:39:20) 

Ron DeSantis, Fox News, Feb.20, 2023: Well, they have effectively a blank check policy with no clear strategic objective identified. And these things can escalate and I don't think it's in our interests to be getting into a proxy war, with China getting involved over things like the borderlands or over Crimea. So, I think it would behoove them to identify what this strategic objective is. 

 

So first of all, let's just think about what he just said in that first 24 seconds. He called this what it is, which is a proxy war. It’s a war between the United States and Russia, not a war between Ukraine and Russia. It's a proxy war. The United States is involved in a proxy war using Ukraine as its proxy to weaken Russia. And that's what he's saying. He's also saying it's madness that we've opened up our coffers and given them a blank check, which is exactly what President Biden just did in Kyiv – he said, oh, whatever you need is yours until the very end of this war. And Governor DeSantis, I'm pleasantly surprised to hear – it's going to take a lot more to convince me than just this but it's a good start – is saying, first of all, why are we doing that? Why are we involved in an endless proxy war? And then let's listen to what he says about Russia. 

 

(Video 00:40:45)

Ron DeSantis Feb.20, 2023: […] But just saying it's an open-ended blank check, that is not acceptable. 

 

Fox News: So, Governor, what does a win look like for us in Ukraine, for Ukraine? 

 

Ron DeSantis Feb.20, 2023: Well, I think it's important to point out, I mean, you know, the fear of Russia going into NATO countries and all that, and steamrolling, you know, that has not even come close to happening. I think they've shown themselves to be a third-rate military power. I think they've suffered tremendous, tremendous losses. I got to think that the people in Russia are probably disapproving of what's going on. I don't think they can speak up about it for obvious reasons. So, I think Russia has been really, really wounded here. And I don't think that they are the same threat to our country, even though they're hostile, I don't think they're on the same level as China, right? 

 

I think the way he talks about Russia is unbelievably important. Sometimes war propaganda is, of all things, so demented and deranged that I look around me sometimes and I see people I regard as intelligent and rational and whom I have respect for, buying into things they're hearing. I know war propaganda is very, very effective. It's very potent. It's been perfected over centuries. You know, how do you get populations to support suffering in great numbers, having your fellow citizens or you putting your life at risk to go murder, other people, in a different country, often with no benefit? You need a propagandistic framework to convince people to do that. And even if you're not asking them to go put their lives on the line, the way is true for the United States at the moment – there are no American troops, at least in uniform, who are there. You can be sure there are intelligence officers and all other kinds of people there who are American but there are no American battalions there, no American troops engaging Russian forces directly. But even so, Americans are being sacrificed in all kinds of ways, including just enormous amounts of money, at a time when, for example, in East Palestine, in Ohio, where there was a train explosion and clearly chemical poisoning of communities, the United States government seems totally uninterested in what's happening to Americans. President Biden is not in East Palestine tonight – former President Trump is – Biden’s off in Ukraine for some reason. 

So, there are always sacrifices and you have to get people to be willing to sustain this for years. Let's just keep sending weapons and killing people. Why? And so, all kinds of propaganda rings down upon you. We're fighting for democracy. We should feel good about ourselves. We don't like tyranny. We like democracy. We want freedom, for people to be free in the world. It amazes me that people believe that's why the United States fights wars when the United States is a very close ally and partner – and always has been – with the most despotic regimes on the planet, like Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Egypt and the list goes on and on. 

The United States doesn’t dislike tyranny. It doesn't want to vanquish despotism. It loves tyranny and despotism, as long as it serves the interests of the United States. It's not why the United States goes to war. The United States was partners with Saddam Hussein. They were partners with Moammar Gadhafi and Bashar Assad and only started talking about their evils when it became time strategically to want to remove them. They merely say it was fine with Saddam Hussein to gas his own people. We were allies of Saddam Hussein when he was doing that. 

So, I'm always amazed when people are willing to believe that and what amazes me, even more, is this idea that Putin is like a Hitler-like figure, where we’re basically in 1938, faced with this Nazi army, the likes of which the world had never seen before in terms of potency and force and acting like Russia is anywhere remotely on that level. And then if we don't stop them in Ukraine, they're going to take over Poland and Hungary and then they're going to make their way into Western Europe and conquer France and Italy and Germany and then on to Britain and then potentially to the Island States. This is the madness of the most intense kind. And that's what Governor DeSantis is saying there, is that the Russian military is a joke. It doesn't even spend 1/15 on its military what the United States spends on ours, not 1/15. We have already allocated more for that single war in Ukraine than the entire Russian military budget for the entire year, which is only $65 billion. They can't hold thousands in Ukraine. They're going to go and conquer Poland and Hungary and the Balkans and on to Western Europe. That is the insanity of the highest degree. And it's good to hear Governor DeSantis say so because that is what instantly dismantles every time neocons want you to start a war – they use the single only historical analogy they evidently learned in high school:  World War II. 

So, your choice is only binary and always binary. You either support their wars and you get to be Churchill. You go down in history like Churchill like Biden for going to Kyiv on that super-secret trip on the train, or you're Neville Chamberlain, the disgraced appeaser. They don't know any other historical example and, in order for that to work, the enemy has to be Hitler. You go, look, just go Google it. Every time the neocons wanted to start a new war – against Saddam Hussein, against Moammar Gadhafi, against Ahmadinejad when he was the president of Iran, remember him? The new Hitler who served two terms under the Constitution after being elected and then left and now is in retirement. The new Hitler retired after two terms. 

Every new leader is Hitler and now Putin is Hitler, too, even though as Governor DeSantis says, the Russian military is a third-rate military power. Obama used to say that, too. When asked why he didn't do more to stop Russia, he would say Russia. They're at best a regional power. They have an economy smaller than Italy's. Why are you talking about Russia as some grand power? 

Now let's look at what President Trump has been saying because I do think it's important to realize, even though people hate to accept this, that while President Trump did escalate a couple of the bombing campaigns he inherited, such as in Syria and Iraq against ISIS and al-Qaeda, he was the first president in decades not to involve the United States in a new war. That's like a good achievement, right? We should all be able to agree on that. I know we don't, but we should. That's a positive thing. And listen to what he's now saying about how he sees the war in Ukraine. 

 

(Video 00:47:47)

Donald Trump: World War III has never been closer than it is right now. We need to clean house of all of the warmongers in America, the last globalists in the Deep State, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the National Security Industrial Complex. One of the reasons I was the only president in generations who didn't start a war is that I was the only president who rejected the catastrophic advice of many of Washington's generals, bureaucrats and the so-called diplomats who only know how to get us into conflict. But they don't know how to get us out. 

 

He's railing against the permanent war party in Washington that really doesn't have a party other than a war party. You find them in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party alike. There's no difference whatsoever when it comes to the question of the war in Ukraine between the views of Tom Cotton and Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham on the one side and Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and AOC and Joe Biden on the other, absolutely no difference. Just like the Tea Parties had almost no difference. When it came time for the war in Iraq or the war in Syria. They are in full agreement. Except for this wing of the Republican Party that Governor DeSantis is obviously trying to speak to. 

You can blame Donald Trump because he put a lot of these people in his administration. He had Mike Pompeo in the position of Secretary of State and CIA director, who's absolutely a neocon of the kind he's railing against here, who is, of course, completely in favor of the war in Ukraine. He had Nikki Haley as his U.N. ambassador, who was the same way, You go down the list. You had a lot of them. He put John Bolton there, though. He said he liked that Bolton was there because Bolton was so insane, people were afraid to mess with the United States and that helped him negotiate. But who knows, maybe this time he's serious, maybe he's not. But nonetheless, the fact that you had to go to the Republican Party to hear this kind of denunciation of endless warmongers, who are neocons, and the uniparty, in Washington, is really striking. Let's listen to it a little more. 

 

(Video 00:50:03) 

Donald Trump: Such as Victoria Nuland and many others, just like her, obsessed with pushing Ukraine toward NATO, not to mention the State Department's support for uprisings in Ukraine. These people have been seeking confrontation for a long time, much like the case in Iraq and other parts of the world. And now we're teetering on the brink of World War III. And a lot of people don't see it but I see it, and I've been right about a lot of things. They all say Trump's been right about everything […] 

 

Everybody says Trump's been right about everything and just wanted to highlight that. 


(Video 00:50:40) 

Donald Trump: The outrageous and horrible invasion of Ukraine one year ago, would have never happened if I was your president. Not even a little chance. But it does mean that, here in America, we need to get rid of the corrupt globalist establishment that has botched every major foreign policy decision for decades. And that includes President Biden, whose own people said he's never made a good decision when it comes to looking at other countries. 

 

This used to be standard fare and a staple of left-wing politics: the idea that there’s a neoconservative, warmongering uniparty in Washington and a permanent power faction in Washington; Dwight Eisenhower, no leftist, the five-star general and war hero and two-term Republican president warned of exactly this on his way out. None of this has changed. And Trump saw an up close and firsthand and he sees it now. 

Victoria Nuland is part of the Kagan family, just pure neoconservatism, that wants the United States to fight every single war for all kinds of motives, having everything to do with everything, except the welfare of the American people. And she stays in power no matter whom you go and votes for. The only time she's been out of government in the last 35 years was when Donald Trump was president. She was in the Clinton administration. She served as Dick Cheney's top adviser for Iraq in the War on Terror. She then slithered into the Obama administration, where she ran Iraq for the John Kerry State Department. She's now running Ukraine for the Blinken State Department. Blinken himself was a supporter of the war in Iraq. So was Joe Biden. 

These are all the same people doing this over and over and over, exactly what Donald Trump is saying. And I think Ron DeSantis realizes, based on that little snippet that I showed you, that he cannot run based on standard Reagan-Bush-Cheney foreign policy of wanting to go to war all over the place, that doesn't benefit the American people. The Republican Party seems done with that and although people claim that neoconservatives joined with the Democratic Party, and remigrated back to the Democratic Party, neocons go to whatever party will host them and will serve their agenda best. 

The claim was that neocons align with the Democratic Party again only because of fear of Trump. That is not true. You can find in the New York Times, I've shown it to you before, a 2014 op-ed by Jacob Hall Brown, who chronicles neocons as well as anybody and the point of this article was that Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland’s husband, from the neoconservative Kagan family, was plotting to support Hillary Clinton for president as early as 2014 when this article was published before anyone dreamed of Trump running let alone winning because he perceived that the Republican Party was becoming inhospitable to the neocon agenda of endless war and that Hillary Clinton would better serve it. Can anyone doubt that he was right about that? Hillary Clinton had Victoria Nuland in her State Department, his wife. He knew what he was saying. And that is what Donald Trump – maybe he'll be able to do more about it if he's president again, maybe he'll be too weak and undisciplined again, maybe he'll be too vulnerable to flattery again. He talked like this before and did some things about it, but not very much. Though, again, he did avoid war of the kind that Joe Biden is feeding in Ukraine. So, he at least deserves credit for that. And he's saying the right things. And tonight, by the way, he's in East Palestine to visit the actual American citizens suffering greatly, who have been forgotten by the Biden administration, which is focused, for whatever reason, on who is going to rule provinces in Eastern Ukraine. 

At the very beginning of the war, I could see all of this coming like a lot of people could, although there weren't many people willing to say it. What I mean by that is that from the very beginning of the war, the media did a very effective job. War is one of the most repulsive things that humanity can do upon itself, probably the most repugnant. And if you look at war and the realities of it, you'll instinctively react. If you're a decent person with disgust and rage: who is doing it? That's the reason we never, ever see the victims of our missiles and our drones and our bombs. When was the last time you saw on ABC or CNN dead bodies caused by the American military? Or heard from the grieving relatives of people whom we blew up at wedding parties or the dreams and aspirations snuffed out by an errant drone like the one that President Biden sent into Afghanistan in the last week that we were there that killed 12 innocent people, an entire family. Those have disappeared from sites. You don't get angry about those. They're invisible, our victims. But the victims in Ukraine and there certainly are a lot of victims in Ukraine, were shown to you over and over and over and over and over again as though this was unique, as though only Vladimir Putin and the Russians do this in war - kill innocent people – even though that's what happens in every single war that is taking place on this planet right now, that the United States supports, that it involves itself in. But you just don't see those victims. 

The media showed you the victims over and over in Ukraine to get you angry because people are decent and if you show them the evils of war from one side, they're going to hate the other side and get forever invested in the idea of defeating them. I could see that in the first week, reason was being overridden and people's emotions had been exploited by a media that had united, as they always do, in a very tribalistic way, on “our side”, our side is good. Our president and our leader, we unite behind him in a time of war. We cheer for him when he goes to Kyiv, we become Americans, and our political differences stop at the border. All of this stuff has been used to indoctrinate Americans for decades about the glories and beauties of war. 

And this is how I was describing  – this was actually the first day of the war. This was a video I recorded before we had our regular show here on Rumble and had a kind of periodic System Update, two or three videos per month, and I tried to describe what I thought was coming. This was about a year ago on the eve of the Russian invasion. 

 

(Video 00:57:20)

G. Greenwald: Conversely, we're going to have an enormous amount of sympathy and a desire to help and protect and defend whoever we regard as the victim. It's for any normal, healthy, well-adjusted human being at a time of extremely high emotions. And I think we need to be aware of that for two reasons. The first of which is that any time we're in a state of high emotions, by definition, necessarily, our capacity to reason diminishes. If we are reacting to something with intense emotions, our ability to use rationality to react to the situation, to analyze it, is crowded out by the intensity of those emotions, even when those emotions are valid. In fact, particularly when those emotions are valid as the emotions that are pervasive now watching what's happening between Russia and Ukraine undoubtedly are. It doesn't matter whether the emotions are valid or not. The mere existence of intense emotions means that we lose our capacity, at least for the moment, to evaluate events and what our response should be, and how we should think about them with reason, with rationality. 

The other, and I think a more important thing to realize about how we react to war, the intensity of the emotions it provokes is that emotions, by their very nature, are very susceptible to manipulation. All power centers know how to manipulate and control emotion. They use fear. They use anger. They use revenge. They use a sense of righteous justice to move people. Governments have been studying this for a long time. 

 

I think that's pretty much what has happened. I mean, even if you want to look at this in the most realistic way, leave aside all the garbage propaganda – that's for the idiots at CNN and MSNBC about how we are going there to fight off authoritarianism or whatever – and you just look at it in like a geostrategic way, and you say, well, there's a benefit in separating Russia from Europe and preventing Germany and Western Europe from buying cheap natural gas from Russia in Nord Stream and buying it from us instead – and just generally weaken Russia – we've already achieved those aims. We blew up Nord Stream 2 or someone did. A big mystery. Right now, Russia is hoping that the Swedes will release their investigation while the United States, for some reason, hopes that the investigation doesn't get public. So maybe one day we'll find out what the great mystery is of who blew up Nord Stream 2. 

But Nord Stream 2 does not exist. Germany won't buy gas from Russia. They won't complete Nord Stream 2. We've already achieved that end. There's a breach between Russia and Europe, between Russia and Germany, and we pushed Russia into Chinese arms. Maybe that wasn't part of the goal. In fact, for the whole Cold War, the number one goal in Washington was to prevent Russia and China from uniting against the United States. This war has managed to do that. So, congratulations to Biden and his great diplomacy. But even if you think there were benefits to this war, they've all been achieved. What more is there left? 

The problem is once you work a population up to this extent and get the media so excited – and they really get excited by war. They love it. It gives them a purpose. And this whole thing about that melodramatic trip and the secrecy behind it – it gets their blood pumping, especially because they and their kids are not in danger. They just get to watch from afar. Whenever you get people hooked on this emotion, it's very hard to extricate them from it. And so having gotten Americans into this emotional state in both the Democrat and Republican Party, I think it's going to be very hard now for D.C. policymakers, even if they want to, to start justifying how we can wind down this war without things like taking back Crimea or pushing the Russians entirely out of Donbas, which is not going to happen if there's going to be a diplomatic solution. 

That's the conundrum that we’ve reached. And it's always worth remembering when a new war is proposed, it's vital that we resist these instincts that we all have that are tribalistic and emotional, and that we not let people play on those, and that instead we use our critical faculties, than our tribalistic ones, to evaluate what we're hearing, lest it be too late, as is the case, I think, for this war. 

So, we've certainly been covering this war from the beginning. We will continue to cover it as it goes on. 


 

We do have another story for you tonight, though, which is about the fact that we have seen a great deal of footage from the January 6 riot at the Capitol, which was more than two years ago. We have, however, seen only a portion of that footage. The portion that we've seen is the portion that the Jan. 6 Committee chose to show us. The portion that we have not seen is the portion that the Jan. 6 Committee chose to conceal from us. 

I don't think anyone here needs a reminder that the Jan. 6 Committee was completely united in their political and ideological crusade. The only Republicans on that committee were Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, both of whom were even more devoted to destroying Trump and sabotaging his movement than the Democrats on that committee were. That's why they were on that Committee. Remember, Nancy Pelosi rejected two of Kevin McCarthy's nominees to be on the Committee and that had never happened in the history of the House before, which is why he said, “I'm not going to nominate any Republicans” and so, Nancy Pelosi hand-picked her two favorites. It was a totally partisan committee that was united in every way in their single-minded effort. And they chose for you which clips you got to see and which clips you didn't. And people have been rightly wanting to see all surveillance footage of Jan. 6, so that we can know whether what has been shown to us is representative of what happened or whether what has been concealed tells another part of the story that has not yet been told. 

Kevin McCarthy, the speaker of the House who was in control of this for a year now, has decided to give it to a news organization, Fox News, and specifically to Tucker Carlson. So here is the AP report on that. Before we get to the reaction, here's exactly what happened. 

 

Thousands of hours of surveillance footage from the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol are being made available to Fox News Channel host Tucker Carlson, a stunning level of access granted by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy that Democrats swiftly condemned as a “grave” breach of security with potentially far-reaching consequences. The hard-right political commentator [Not a journalist. He's the hard-right political commentator] said his team is spending the week at the Capitol, poring through the video and preparing to reveal their findings to his viewers. But granting exclusive access to sensitive Jan. 6 security footage to such a deeply partisan figure is a highly unusual move seen by some critics as essentially outsourcing House oversight to a TV personality who has promoted conspiracy theories about the attack. “It's a shocking development that brings in both political concerns but, even more importantly, security concerns”, said Rep. Dan Goldman, D-N.Y., who was [is the heir to a billionaire family fortune who is just elected by the very liberal Democrats in Manhattan] the chief counsel during President Donald Trump's first impeachment trial. [So, you know, he's super nonpartisan and objective].

“Unfortunately, the apparent disclosure of sensitive video material is yet another example of the grave threat to the security of the American people represented by the extreme MAGA Republican majority”, Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y. [the current House minority leader] said in a letter to House colleagues. (AP News. Feb.22, 2023) 

That’s from AP, that's their idea of a neutral, objective news story trying to tell you what happened. It sounds like a press release from the Democratic National Committee. 

Now, what we have here is a politician, Kevin McCarthy, handpicking a journalist to provide material to, which is exactly what has already happened. As I said, the Jan. 6 Committee is already a politicized, highly partisan body that handpicked what they wanted you to see and kept the rest from you. 

Tucker Carlson, who has a different perspective, is going to go into that surveillance footage and find out what was hidden from you to see if there's anything there that negates the narrative of the Jan. 6 Committee and provides new insight into what actually happened on that day. You would think the media would be happy about this because this is an opportunity for more transparency to see footage of a very important event, or at least one they think is very important, the insurrection, that we have not seen. We're about to shine a light on things that have been kept in darkness. And how does the media feel about that? We know. 

Here from The Hill reminding us The Washington Post actually changed its motto. They adopted a new motto just for the Trump era. They still have it, though. It's called “Democracy Dies in Darkness.” 

The Washington Post has a new slogan on its homepage: “Democracy Dies in Darkness.” The motto, one that has been used periodically in the past by Washington Post columnist and editor, Bob Woodward, was first spotted on Friday (The Hill. Feb 22, 2017). 

 

This must mean that the media is celebrating this huge amount of transparency we are about to get and finally seeing a bunch of footage that a partisan body kept from us as it showed us one it wanted to see. Is that correct? 

Let's take a look at the video of how the media has reacted here. Let's start with what is going on MSNBC and NBC. Here is the always sober and insightful NBC host Joy Reid interviewing Congressman Jamie Raskin, who is a Democrat. He is also a member of the Jan. 6 Committee. So, remember the person you're about to see was already part of the body that hand-picked surveillance videos and showed it to you while keeping the rest. Listen to what he says in his reaction to this news. 

 

(Video 01:07:26) 

Joy Reid, MSNBC: I mean, are we in danger of not just that of people trying to twist this footage, cut little pieces of it that they think will help criminals get out of jail or get out of trouble? […]  But also, I'm concerned that these are the people that the Russians listen to, including Tucker, that he can put on something that is false, not real, but that he's very useful to our enemies, including knowing where the security cameras are on Capitol Hill. 

 

There seems to be some fish life consuming the right part of Joy Reid's body, but let's ignore that. I think one of the things I want to focus on instead is do you notice how they cannot discuss any kind of political debate without instantly invoking the Russians? Tucker's going to show the Russians where the security footage is and then the Russians are going to go and invade the Capitol. Is that what's going to happen? 

We saw so much of this surveillance footage that shows where the cameras are in, shows so much of where everything else is, and instead of questioning the journalistic aspect, which I think is valid – why should one journalist get this and not have it released to the public at large, which I'll get to in a second – instead, she immediately goes to “this helps Russia.” It's a national security threat to allow Tucker Carlson, instead of Liz Cheney, to pick and choose which video footage you get to see and what you don't get to see. And here's how Jamie Raskin responded. 

 

(Video 01:08:580)

Jamie Raskin: Well, look. Tucker Carlson is a pro-Putin, pro-war band, pro-autocrat and propagandist. So, while we've got the press in the United States over in Ukraine expressing solidarity with the forces of democratic freedom, Kevin McCarthy is releasing these tapes to one network, not making it public for everybody, not giving it to CNN and MSNBC and The New York Times but giving it to Fox News and to Tucker Carlson so he can forward his propaganda theories. 

 

So, he at least aside from also invoking the scary boogeyman of Vladimir Putin, which is all that occupies these people's minds and I guess I should also say, I think a major reason for the Democratic Party unanimous support for the war in Ukraine is really because they want to punish Putin for the perceived role they think he played in helping Hillary Clinton lose the 2016 election to Donald Trump. That's why Russia is still at the forefront of their mind with regard to everything. But he's also voicing this journalistic critique that why should one network get this information? Why shouldn’t we all get it? That is something that we're hearing a lot of. 

Here is Frank Figliuzzi, who used to be the associate director of the FBI, and like pretty much every single senior operative of the U.S. Security State, he now, for some reason, is employed by corporate media outlets. They just bring on. Here's our colleague from the CIA, your colleague from the NSA and your colleague from the FBI. And he came on to this show. It's called “The 11th Hour” by… I forgot her name. Stephanie Something. No one watches, but we're going to show it to you anyway. Stephanie Ruhle, I think, and here is them discussing the fact that Kevin McCarthy has chosen to give this material to Fox News. 

 

(Video 01:10:46) 

S. Ruhle: Frank, people could find this move on McCarthy's part unscrupulous, dangerous, disgusting, terrible but is it legal? Because he doesn't care what our opinions are? 

 

F. Figliuzzi: Yeah, he's the speaker. He made this call all by himself, apparently, we don't know what transpired between him and Tucker Carlson, why he chose Tucker, for example. But it's done. So now we have to live with the ramifications. What are the ramifications? From where I look at this, there are legit security concerns. What are they? For example, we have seen video clips from January […]

 

Do you think it's weird, by the way, that a news network, when it comes time to question somebody about what media outlets should report and how journalists should report them, calls on to the television to tell you about this, the former senior official from the FBI? Do you think the FBI and its senior operatives should be opining, should be arbitrating what is and is not legitimately reported by a journalist and how journalism should be conducted? I don't. 

And yet, these are the people they always bring on to opine on all of this. They are completely aligned with, completely allied with, in bed with the entire superstructure of the U.S. Security State. They don't really bring them on to talk about the FBI or the CIA or the Pentagon, things that are at least within the ambit of their arguable expertise. These are the people who shape the news. They go right from the CIA and the FBI and the NSA and the Pentagon, in the Defense Department, right into the largest media corporations in the world. 

As I pointed out before, in the Cold War, they used to have to do this clandestinely. That's one of the things that was shocking and the Church Committee uncovered – it was how they were shaping and influencing the news. Now they do it out in the open. 

So, now they have him saying that Tucker Carlson is reporting on what you've already seen Jan. 6 surveillance footage – hours and hours of it – as a national security threat because of what he might choose to show you that they didn't choose to show you. 

 

F. Figliuzzi: […] where we see Nancy Pelosi being escorted off the floor of Congress and then the next shot we see, and only the next shot we see, is a video of her in a safe room. Right? We don't see her being transited through a particular pathway. We don't see the entrance to the safe room. We don't know where that is. Those are the kinds of things, code words with Capitol Police officers on strategy tactics where camera angles show hidden cameras within the Capitol building, all of that could be exposed if it's done irresponsibly without a secure review. And I think that's what we're dealing with here. That's what concerns you. 

 

So, basically, what's going to happen is Tucker Carlson is going to get the security footage and he's going to look for the part that shows where the safe room is. And then he's going to go on air and he's going to draw a map for the Russians, for Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin. He's going to show the Kremlin where the safe room is. And this is why you should be scared. 

Leave aside the whole thing about Russia and the thing about how they're going to find out the security footage and all of that and the code words – it's just such idiocy, you know, for people who have the brains of 12-year-olds, all of this.

Let's look at the journalists that complained that this should be released to numerous news outlets or the public at large and not just given to one media outlet to curate, because I'm not entirely unsympathetic to that argument. I nonetheless want to review how hypocritical it is in this case. 

And of course, let me just show you Adam Schiff's reaction, because, you know, that's always also very sober and reasoned. Adam Schiff said, 

“Kevin McCarthy turned over Jan. 6 videos to right-wing propagandist Tucker Carlson” [..].

 It's amazing, isn't it, how the most partisan Democrat in Congress, Adam Schiff, describes it exactly the way he did.

 “A man who spews Kremlin talking points suggests Jan. 6 was a false flag. ‘’     And spreads the big lie”. 

That itself is a lie. Tucker Carlson has never claimed the 2020 election, what they called the big lie, was fraudulent. 

“Make no mistake, this isn't about transparency. It's about fueling dangerous conspiracy theories” (Feb. 20, 2023). 

 

This critique that it's wrong for someone like Kevin McCarthy in government to take important material and give it to one news outlet only, he should instead give it to multiple ones, might be a fair critique, except for the fact that that's how journalism is done every single day and none of these people object ever. In fact, they live on that. That's how their careers are built every single day, literally every day, people inside the U.S. government – the CIA, the FBI, the Pentagon, the NSA, the Justice Department, the Congress – take nonpublic information and they don't release it on the Internet for everyone to see. They hand-feed it to their favorite journalist, the journalist who they know will do their bidding and tell the story as they want it told. That's how journalism works in every case. And even when there are motives that are good, that's how it works. When Daniel Ellsberg had the Pentagon Papers, he didn't just dump them on the Internet. He took it to The New York Times. He handpicked The New York Times to tell the story. No one complained about that. When Edward Snowden had the NSA archive. He chose the journalist with whom he wanted to work, myself and Laura Poitras. And there were people complaining about that, but not because they were complaining about the process. They were complaining that they weren't the ones who got it. Bob Woodward said Snowden should have come to me. But that's how journalism works all the time, is that the source has information and picks the journalist with whom they want to work. 

They're not mad that this video footage has been given to one news organization. They're mad that it's been given to Fox instead of NBC or CNN or The New York Times, the ones on the other side of the narrative. And the reason they're mad about that is that they know that what Tucker is going to try and do is find the parts of the footage that have been concealed from you by the Jan. 6 Committee precisely because it negates the narrative they want to promote. 

So, that's the only thing that's going on here. I would prefer that all news outlets had it so we could all go through it but this is how it's done all the time. Every single major news story is done by them feeding – we learned, for example, that 51 former intelligence officials signed a letter falsely claiming that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation, or at least it had the hallmarks of Russian disinformation, because as you see here, they called Natasha Bertrand on the phone, and she was the first one who got to publish that article, on October 18, 2020. “Hunter Biden Story is Russian disinformation. Dozens of former intel officials say”. No one complained. Why did they hand-feed this to Natasha Bertrand? The CIA has been feeding hand-picked stories to Natasha Bertrand for years, but she then goes and reports on Politico, The Atlantic, MSNBC, Business Insider and now CNN, where she works. It happens every day that they handpick her. 

Do you remember when the FBI searched Donald Trump's home in Mar a Lago to look for “nuclear documents”? Only certain media outlets got that story, one of which was The Washington Post. There you see the headline. “FBI Searched Trump's Home to Look for Nuclear Documents and Other Items, Sources Say”. And the article said as the former president said on social media, that he won't oppose a Justice Department request to unseal the search warrant, The Washington Post reported,

 

Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in search of former President Donald Trump's Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation”., They went to the Washington Post office. “The people who describe some of that material that agents were seeking spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. They did not offer additional details about what type of information the agents were seeking, including whether it involved weapons belonging to the United States or some other nation. Nor did they say if such documents were recovered as part of the search (The Washington Post. August 12, 2022). 

 

But what they wanted was the headline that they got, which was a very incriminating headline, the most incriminating one possible, despite the fact that there was no evidence for it. “FBI Searched Trump's Home to Look For Nuclear Documents”. They got the most inflammatory and sensationalized headlines they could get and they got that because they hand-picked the news outlet, The Washington Post, that they knew would do that. 

Remember when Roger Stone got arrested at 6 a.m. by the FBI? And it just so happened that CNN was there and then CNN had to publish a story trying to report how it explained how this happened from January 25, 2019, how CNN captured video of the Roger Stone raid. And they claim they grouped together all these different little clues because, of course, people wanted CNN to be there. But Roger Stone got carried away in handcuffs. They didn't call Fox News. They didn't call Matt Taibbi. They didn't call The Grayzone. They called the news outlet they knew would do this in the most favorable way. This is how journalism works all the time. 

So, I would love it if Kevin McCarthy would order the surveillance footage put on the Internet. The problem is, it's the same reason Edward Snowden didn't dump all the information he had on the Internet, which is he didn't want there to be security breaches. He wanted us to carefully curate the information, make sure that no one was being put in harm's way, to go to the government, give the government a chance to say, oh, don't publish that document, if you publish that document, X, Y and Z will happen and then try and persuade us not to publish it. And most of the time that didn't work because the government’s claims are very vague. We knew they just didn't want us revealing how they were spying on people but there were a couple of occasions when they convinced us that if we were to publish documents that would result in genuine harm to innocent people and we didn't publish it. 

So, Frank Figliuzzi was claiming that he wants there to be a security review of this material before its release. Presumably, Fox will do that. They have responsible reporters. If you were to just throw it on the Internet or make it available to every single news organization that asked, that would exacerbate the security concerns and harms they claim they're worried about. 

What they're really worried about and angry about is they know that if there is footage that the Jan. 6 Committee didn't show you because it hides some kind of narrative they don't want you to know about, some facts they don't… They know Tucker Carlson and probably he alone in the corporate media will actually show it to you. Some other people on Fox are likely as well. That's what they're so upset about. They lost the monopoly they had in which of the footage you get to see, before, it was just Liz Cheney and Adam Schiff picking it. Do you feel confident that you got to see everything you should see based on what Adam Schiff and Liz Cheney decided they wanted to show you and what they thought should be hidden? I don't. I'm really glad there are people with different politics and different perspectives going through the rest of that material so we can get the full picture of it. 

If someone wants to say Kevin McCarthy should share it with multiple news organizations, I have no problem with that. As long as they don't pretend as they're pretending that that's the way it's normally done, the way it's normally done in Washington every single day, their entire careers are built on having people inside these government agencies feed information to them, knowing how obsequious and obedient they are to the source's agenda. So, ignore everything these people are saying because none of what they're saying about why they're mad is really why they're mad. What they're mad about is we're finally going to get to see the full story. Maybe we've already been shown the full story, but what they're scared of is that we haven't. And now, we're going to find out. And anyone who's actually interested in the truth and in transparency should be applauding this and not denouncing it. 

 

So, that is our show for tonight. We are very happy to be back after a few days off. As we said, we’ve taken a few days off, recharge your batteries, and come back with what we always hope is high-quality programming. We will be back tomorrow night and every night at 7 p.m. EST, exclusively here on Rumble, at our regular time. And on Tuesdays and Thursdays as well, we have our aftershow on Locals where we take your questions and respond to your feedback. Join our Locals community as well. Click the join sign right below the video on your screen on the Rumble page and you will be part of that community and will help support our journalism as well. 

Thanks, everybody for watching. 

Have a great night. 

We will see you back here tomorrow night.

 

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Listen to this Article: Reflecting New U.S. Control of TikTok's Censorship, Our Report Criticizing Zelensky Was Deleted

For years, U.S. officials and their media allies accused Russia, China and Iran of tyranny for demanding censorship as a condition for Big Tech access. Now, the U.S. is doing the same to TikTok. Listen below.

Listen to this Article: Reflecting New U.S. Control of TikTok's Censorship, Our Report Criticizing Zelensky Was Deleted

Glenn, why do refer to Curtis Sliwa running for Mayor of New York as “not a serious candidate”. I have admired Sliwa for decades and find his campaign right on the issues that face New Yorkers. Every day he is out among citizens of New York campaigning. I find him reasonable and capable, particularly in contrast to Adams, Cuomo and Mamdani.

Why do you discount him?

REN’s Latest song.
Just about Sum’s up the UK for me right now. 🤣👍💯🙏👏….

VINCENT’S TALE - REN….

US special forces vet, who assisted with food distribution in Gaza, relates story of a little boy who thanked him for the food, and was then shot dead by IDF troops:

"And he sets his food down and he places his hands on my face on the side of my face on my cheeks. These frail skeleton emaciated hands, dirty. And he puts them on my face and he kissed me. He kissed me and he said, 'Thank you' in English. Thank you. And he collected his items and he walked back to the group and then he was shot at with pepper spray and tear gas and stun grenades and bullets shot at his feet and in the air and he runs away scared."

https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/us-veteran-alleges-gazan-child-who-thanked-him-for-food-was-shot-dead-moments-later-by-idf/

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Glenn Takes Your Questions on Tulsi's Russiagate Revelations, Columbia's $200M Settlement, and More
System Update #492

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Once a week, we devote the show to a Q&A session. We take questions submitted throughout the week by members of our Locals community and answer as many as we can. As is typically the case, the questions tonight are wide-ranging and very provocative on a diverse range of news stories. 

 Our “Mailbag” is not intended to be just a sort of yes or no, but instead to give my viewpoint, my analysis, my perspective, my commentary on whatever it is that interests you. A lot of times, it ends up being topics that we might have wanted to cover anyway, that we just haven't had a chance to yet. Other times, they are topics that, on our own, we may not have covered. It's usually that kind of perfect mix that always makes me excited to do. So, let's get right into them to make sure we cover as many as possible. 

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The first is from @ChristianaK, and the question is very straightforward: 

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There's actually a second question here and let me get to it now, because it was going to be part of what I was about to say. It’s from @kevin328:

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I actually think Tulsi Gabbard's revelations on their own are substantive, meritorious, important and deserve a lot of attention but I do think, at this point, anything that the Trump administration is doing is intended to feed their base that is still very confused, upset and angry, for the most part, by this increasingly bizarre posture that they've taken on the Epstein revelations, namely not to make any, led not by Pam Bondi, Kash Patel or Dan Bongino, but by Donald Trump. 

Anything that they're suddenly unveiling is presumptively an attempt to distract people from that anger, that confusion and that growing suspicion about what they did with Epstein. The problem for them is the suspicions that have emerged – that I don't even think were that present before – that Donald Trump fears that his name is in the files and therefore wants to make sure they're not released, and even if his name isn't in the file in any way particularly incriminating. 

I've always thought the Epstein case has important questions to answer and I still think the Epstein case has important questions to be answered, including the ones I've outlined at length, such as whether he worked with or for any foreign or domestic intelligence agencies, and what was the source of his massive wealth, and why were these mysterious billionaires embedded in the military-industrial complex so eager on just seemingly handing him over huge amounts of wealth in exchange for services that seem very amorphous at best. I think there are a lot of unanswered questions that are important to say nothing of whether there's evidence that very powerful and important people participated in the more sinister aspects of what it was that he was doing and whether any blackmail arose from that. Of course, Donald Trump's name is going to be in some of these files for so many reasons. He was a very good friend of Jeffrey Epstein at one point. They spent a lot of time together. It seems like most or all of that time took place before the conviction of Jeffrey Epstein in 2007, which has its own very odd set of questions around why he got such an incredibly lenient deal for crimes that most people are sent to prison for a very long time. 

There's actually an excellent discussion on all of this that if you haven't seen I want to recommend which is Darryl Cooper's discussion on Tucker Carlson's show about the Epstein case, Darryl spent huge amounts of time putting together the entire history of Jeffrey Epstein, where he came from, how he emerged on the scene, who his key contacts were, where his wealth came from, the questions that have arisen, the way in which they've been buried. Despite what people have tried to depict about Darryl Cooper, in large part because of his unconventional views on World War II, but more so his harsh criticism of Israel, that he's some deranged, unhinged fabulist, who doesn't understand history, he's actually one of the most scrupulous and meticulous commentators and analysts I've seen, by which I mean, he really does only very strongly-cling to facts and has no problem admitting, which he often does, that there are certain things he doesn't know, that there are holes in his understanding, holes in the information, and there's zero conspiratorial thinking or even speculative thinking in this discussion or very little. It's all just a chronicle of facts laid out in a way not just to understand the Epstein case, but the reason why it's captured so much attention about the behavior of our elite class. 

So, I do think Donald Trump's name appears in these files the way The Wall Street Journal has reported it did. Trump was explicitly asked outside the White House by a reporter, just like two weeks ago: Did Pam Bondi give you a briefing in May in which she indicated to you that the Epstein files contain your name?” And to that, he explicitly said “No.” And that's exactly what The Wall Street Journal is now reporting had happened. Most journalists know that that happened. There were leaks inside the Justice Department and the White House that this is what happened. And again, I would be shocked if Donald Trump's name did not appear at some point in the Epstein files in some capacity, because of his close friendship with Jeffrey Epstein; they were in the same West Palm Beach social circles, which is a very small set of very rich people who compose that society. The U.S. attorney who ended up being appointed, who oversaw Jeffrey Epstein's sweetheart deal, ended up being appointed by Donald Trump as Secretary of Labor. He has positive feelings for Ghislaine Maxwell in that notorious interview. He said, “I wish her well,” something that Donald Trump doesn't say about most criminals, let alone ones imprisoned on charges that they trafficked underage girls. 

But the climate that has been created – in large part by his closest followers, Pam Bondi, Kash Patel, Dan Bongino and his personal attorney, who is now the U.S. attorney for New Jersey, at least for a little bit longer, and some of the leading and most influential MAGA influencers – is that if your name is even remotely associated with Jeffrey Epstein, your entire life and your integrity and your character are instantly cast into doubt. One of the first times I really noticed this was when The Wall Street Journal reported on a series of contacts between people that no one knew had known Jeffrey Epstein, one of whom was Noam Chomsky. And the reason that happened was because Jeffrey Epstein had a very specific and passionate interest in academic institutions in Boston, especially the two most prestigious, Harvard and MIT. He funded various research projects. He gave $125,000, for example, to Bill Ackman's wife in order for her to have some sort of research project. And he had two or three dinners with Noam Chomsky. And Chomsky was very contemptuous of the questions in the Wall Street Journal. I guess that's what happens when you're 92. You don't take any kind of smear campaign seriously. You don't really care. And he just said, “Yeah, I had dinners with Jeffrey Epstein. He was a very well-connected and wealthy person.” 

Now, oddly, Jeffrey Epstein was very close friends with the former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, who obviously knew Chomsky would have a great deal of animus towards, and Jeffrey Epstein was very connected to the Israeli government in all sorts of ways, including through his primary benefactor, the multi-billionaire Les Wexner, who handed over to Epstein billions of dollars, it seems, and assets. It is an odd person for Chomsky to know, but at the same time, if you're one of the most intellectually heralded professors and scholars in the Boston area at one of the most prestigious schools in the world, MIT, where Chomsky spent almost his entire life as a professor of linguistics, that is the kind of person that Jeffrey Epstein tried to target and befriend to make himself feel important, to make him feel intellectually relevant. And yet, you would have thought that that revelation by itself proved that Chomsky had gone to that island multiple times and had sex with underage girls and was a pedophile. So, there has been a lot of speculative guilt by association and hysteria that has surrounded this story, such that anyone whose name appears in those files is likely to have suspicion and doubt cast on them for the rest of their life, even if the connections were innocuous. 

I'm sure part of what Trump wants to avoid is any indication that his name appears in those files because of that climate that will spill over him, including by many of his own followers. Then there are likely things in there that might, one of the reasons why investigations are typically kept secret, including grand jury proceedings, is because there are a lot of unverified accusations, but if they're published, they may seem like they have credibility. That was part of what we had to deal with the NSA, with the Snowden documents. A lot of the archives contain documents where they wanted to spy on certain people and they would speculate that those people might have ties to terrorist groups, or al-Qaeda, or Islamic extremism, or engage in other kinds of crimes unrelated to terrorism, but they were never charged with that. There was no evidence for it. It was just speculation about why the NSA thought they should spy on these people and had we published those documents with their names, we would have destroyed their reputations forever, based on accusations that were completely unvetted and just appeared in these documents. 

Clearly, Trump panicked when he learned that his name was in there. Not only did he order no more disclosures, the investigation closed, but, out of nowhere, he began asserting that the Epstein files are all a fake, are all fabricated, or at least much of them are fabricated and claimed that they were the same kind of hoax that Obama, Hillary, Biden, Jim Comey and John Brennan manufactured for Russiagate and the Steele Dossier. All of a sudden, the Epstein files went from the most pressing and significant matter, the disclosure of which would be the key ingredient to deciphering the sinister globalist elite that runs the world, to a hoax, a bunch of fake documents that never should see the light of day.

 Obviously, the only reason why Trump would suddenly concoct that excuse was because he was fearful that it would harm his reputation or the reputation of people very close to him and whom he cares about. and so he said, “No, this should never see the light of day; this is just another Democratic Party hoax that you idiots are falling for.” And that behavior obviously fuels suspicions even more, as has the subsequent reporting from The Wall Street Journal about that birthday greeting that Trump sent to Epstein, which he denies, but The Wall Street Journal reported, and then the subsequent reporting that Pam Bondi briefed him that his name appears in these documents. 

So, anytime anyone thinks about the Epstein documents for even one second, that kind of loss of faith and trust in Trump is something that, once it breaks, is very difficult to put together again, and they are desperate. I mean, the day after the Epstein files, they said, “Hey, here's the Martin Luther King files.” It's like, I guess it's good to see the Martin Luther King files, kind of like the JFK files, in that these are documents that should have been released a long time ago.” There's zero reason for secrecy. It was one of the most consequential historical events of the last 70 years in the United States. We should be able to understand what our government knows about that event. But it wasn't like anybody was so eager, anyone thought that that was the key to deciphering much of anything. It was an important historical event. From all appearances, nothing particularly surprising, shocking, or informative about any of those documents that was clearly a way of saying, “Here's a new shiny toy that you can go look at and try to forget about Epstein. 

The revelation by Tulsi Gabbard, especially in the time frame in which it occurred, most definitely, unfortunately, because as I said, they're consequential, is being contaminated by this perception that anything that the government is now throwing at you as disclosures are designed to distract you from the big whale that they've been covering up that they themselves made into the most pressing matter – JD Vance and Donald Trump Jr. as well – but also the idea that they want to regain your trust by showing you that they're redirecting your attention somewhere else. So, yes, unfortunately, it does have the stench of that, but at the same time, let's talk about these documents because they are extremely revealing. 

I know Aaron Maté spent a good amount of time yesterday – he was one of the very, very few people who weren't a MAGA journalist or pundit, weren't a Trump supporter, who, from the very beginning, said, “This whole story seems journalistically dubious at best.” There were very few of us at the time doing that. Jimmy Dore was another person who did that. Matt Taibbi was another one. There were very, very few of us and we all got called fascists and Trump supporters and Russian agents for having questioned these sensationalistic conspiracy theories about the relationship between Donald Trump and Russia or the role Russia played in the 2016 election that never had evidence for them, that were all fueled by very familiar anonymous leaks from the CIA and the FBI and the rest of the national security state that hated Trump, to the papers to whom they always leak when they want to manipulate the public, which is The Washington Post and The New York Times, which then gave themselves Pulitzers for having done so. But of all those people, I think Aaron has the most granular, detailed knowledge of every document, of every form of testimony. It's something I haven't looked at in several years. We haven't spent a lot of time on Russiagate was basically debunked when Robert Mueller closed the investigation while arresting nobody on the core conspiracy that they criminally conspired with the Russians, saying they couldn't find any evidence for it. Of course, there's been no accountability; those very same people lied in 2020 when they said that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation, exactly in the same way. No accountability for any of that. But I haven't spent that much time engrossed in Russian documents, like I used to do all the time when I was reporting on it. But Aaron has a very still-trap memory, especially for this particular story. So, I was very glad to let him come on and talk about it in my absence. That's one of the reasons why we asked him to guest-host last night. 

So, I know he did a lot in this, but I do want to say that what was so obvious from the very beginning was that this was a very coordinated, politicized theme that emerged out of nowhere in the middle of 2016, something that the Hillary Clinton campaign, out of desperation, invented out of whole cloth. I will never forget the day when it was sort of circulating in the air. You had people like David Korn trying to insert the Steele Dossier reporting before his disclosure. “Oh, there's a document out there that everyone in Washington knows about that contains shocking revelations of Trump and Russia.” And that was all part of the effort to try to lay the foundation for this. But the Hillary Clinton campaign released this ad with this very sinister baritone, this very dark music and these very grainy photos saying, “What are Donald Trump and the Kremlin doing in secret? What is this relationship that they have?” 

I was just so amazed because not only was there no evidence for it – zero, none – it never even made sense on its own terms. Why, if the Russians wanted to hack the Podesta and the DNC emails, would they have needed the assistance of the Trump campaign? How would the Trump campaign have helped in any way in that hacking? Why would they need to do that? Why would they collaborate with Trump's campaign that way? There was never really even any evidence that Putin actually wanted Trump to win that race. If anything, a lot of people assumed that Hillary was the overwhelming favorite to win, was almost certainly going to win it. No one wanted to get on her bad side, and no one thought Donald Trump could win. The idea that the Russians would go so heavy never made much sense, but even more so there was never any evidence for it that it came from Putin, that even if the Russians had been mucking around in the election, that it came from Putin, that was sort of a big master plan that had any effect on the election; there was never any evidence for this. 

The intelligence community went all in because they were petrified of Trump. They hated Trump. They saw, correctly, that Hillary Clinton would be a very safe guardian and continuation of the status quo, which is what they saw in Biden and Kamala Harris as well. Trump, for whatever else is true about him, is very unpredictable. Sometimes, he will go to bat for the military-industrial complex and the intelligence community more aggressively than anyone else, as he's done many times, but he's also unpredictable and they want predictability, continuity, stability. The Democrats represented that, and Trump didn't. That was why they were so eager to destroy him, both in the campaign and then, sabotaging his presidency once he was inaugurated, and that's exactly what they proceeded to do with this fake story that ended up getting completely debunked and everybody just walked away from it as though it never happened. 

What these documents reveal is what we assumed at the time, which was that the Obama administration, obviously, was desperate to help Hillary. It was the CIA under John Brennan, an extremely politicized, corrupt, and dishonest actor whom Obama first had as his national security advisor and then installed as CIA chief, that led the way in concocting evidence. They had James Clapper there, too, with a history of lying. Those are the people running the national security state. And they were open, partisan. Remember, these are the same people who ended up among the 51 intelligence officials in 2020 who lied with that letter, blaming the Russians for the Hunter Biden laptop and calling into question its authenticity right before the election because they were petrified it would help Trump win and Biden lose. Their politicized motives are beyond question. 

Same with James Comey at the FBI; his hatred for Donald Trump has become legend. These were the people who took the best assessment of the U.S. Intelligence community, the analysts and the spies who were saying there's very low confidence that Russia really did anything here. We're not sure that they were the ones who did the hacking. There's no evidence that Putin even has a preference, let alone that he's pursuing some master plan to implement that preference. 

Obama basically ordered Brennan and Clapper to go back and take another look, meaning to revise what their own intelligence professionals were telling them. Exactly what happened, by the way, with the Iraq war, when there were all sorts of analysts inside the CIA telling Dick Cheney and the Pentagon, Paul Wolfowitz, that they did not believe that Saddam Hussein had an active WMD program. You may remember the very bizarre story in Pat Leahy's memoir, where he says he was jogging on the street with his wife or walking on the street with this wife and these two guys who he didn't recognize came up to them as joggers and kind of whispered in Pat Lahey's ear like, hey, take a look at file number 14 in the CIA briefing that you have in the Senate.

He went and looked at it. It was filled with documents raising serious doubts about the WMD claims. And then they did it again, a few days later, and they said, “Have you taken a look at file 6?” He went there and found even more convincing evidence. He did end up voting against it but never revealed to the public that those documents were there, let alone that any of that happened, because he was too much of a coward. But he did write about it in his books. 

So, there were parts of the intelligence community, the parts that were the actual professional analysts, who resisted the idea that they were weapons of obstruction. That's when they got George Tenet, the CIA director, to say, “Oh, it's a slam dunk.” They created their own intelligence teams who were ideologically driven, who would give them what they wanted. They had Colin Powell go to the U.N. and use his credibility, squander his credibility to represent that fake evidence, that fake intelligence. 

This is exactly what happened here: the intelligence professionals with no real stake in the game, career intelligence officials, were saying, “There's really not much here, not very much at all, that we could actually provide you to bolster these conclusions.” And they just went back and found whatever they wanted and concluded whatever they wanted and started leaking it to The Washington Post and The New York Times and it became something that was considered not just possible, but basically proven truth. 

The idea that Trump and Russia were in bed together, that Putin had blackmail leverage over Trump, became the leading narrative of the Trump campaign and the Trump presidency for the first 18 months through the Mueller investigation, drowning out all of our other politics in utter and complete fraud and hoax. We now see the actual details of what happened, which, for me, at the time, were extremely obvious, extremely visible, but the rest of the media – other than the few exceptions I named, there were a few others, some right-wing reporters were doing excellent work, Molly Hemingway and Chuck Ross doing real day-to-day reporting, a couple of others as well – but most of the media just didn't tolerate any kind of questioning of the Russiagate narrative. There was no place other than Fox News to go and question it or criticize it, not in the op-ed pages of The Wall Street Journal, or The New York Times, or The Washington Post, not in any of the other cable shows, and anyone questioning the Russiagate narrative was expelled from left liberal precincts. It became some sort of heresy to even question it when the whole thing was a scam and a fraud from the start. 

I do not think there will be any accountability for this, in large part because, let's remember that that Supreme Court immunity case that liberals raised hell over and said was some kind of newly invented precedent to immunize Donald Trump to allow him to commit crimes in office, as I pointed out at the time, was neither new nor radical. But what it also did was immunize every other president besides Trump, past, present and future, from crimes they committed in office as well, as long as it's in the exercise of their Article II powers. That means Biden got immunized. It means George Bush got immunized. It means Barack Obama got immunized. It means whoever follows Trump got immunized. 

Whatever else is true, clearly, everything that Barack Obama is accused of having been doing was in the exercise of his Article II powers, namely, overseeing and directing the intelligence agency. Even if he did it corruptly, even if he did it criminally, the scope of the immunity from the Supreme Court was so broad that even manipulating intelligence is not subject to criminal prosecution because that would be a violation of the separation of powers by having the judiciary punish presidents for the exercise of their Article II powers. That's what the Supreme Court decision was. 

Theoretically, John Brennan or others in the intelligence community, James Clapper, people inside the Obama White House could theoretically be prosecuted, but the history of the expanded Article II powers that long predated this immunity decision that led to it, as I pointed out at the time, as they documented at great length, despite it being picked up as some brand new, radical new idea just to protect Trump, in fact, it was the logical conclusion of the expansion of executive power. The immunity provided to them makes it extremely unlikely that any of these people is going to be held criminally responsible. There are questions of Statute of Limitations, even if they could be held criminally liable, for example, for perjury, we're talking now about nine years ago, events from nine, eight, seven years ago, a lot of the Statute of Limitations have already elapsed. 

But at the very least, this should be considered a nail in the coffin, not just of the fact that this was a fraud perpetrated on the American people for a long time, using the abuses of the intelligence community to do so, but that it was very deliberate, it was very knowing, it was very conscious, by the people at the highest levels of our government. It's just yet another case where the most damaging and the most extreme abrasive hoaxes happen when the intelligence community, the White House and their media partners unite to disseminate lies to the American public day after day, week after week, month after month, that they constantly reinforce. 

And yeah, some of them are trying to draw this distinction between “having Russia hack the election” in terms of whether they hacked the voting systems and altered the results versus whether they hacked the election metaphorically by hacking the DNC and Podesta's emails and then changing the course of the election. But at the time, that distinction was never drawn. There was a reason they repeated over and over and over; there are montages people have made, of every major media outlet, of every major figure of politicians in the Democratic Party, over and over, obviously through a coordinated script, saying the Russians hacked our election. And the message got to the American people: 70% of Americans two years later in polling believed that Hillary Clinton was the rightful winner of the 2016 election, but that the Russians had hacked into our electoral system and changed the voting outcome. 

You may recall the very notorious incident at The Intercept: a person inside the government named Reality Winner leaked to The Intercept a document and The Intercept handled it extremely carelessly. They allowed people to believe that I was the one who did it and oversaw it and, in fact, I hated this story from the beginning. I didn't even believe it should be worked on because the document was so unreliable. But they mishandled it to such an extent because they were so eager to get it published, to show the media that, despite my constant skepticism, vocal, vehement, constant skepticism about Russiagate, that they were going to join the real part of the media, and impress The Washington Post, The New York Times, and NBC News, by showing that they were willing to do a major story, bolstering the Russiagate, fraud.  

The whole point of that document was a very speculative memo that had been written, suggesting that the Russians had succeeded in tests on how to tap into our electoral system to basically bolster the idea that the Russians succeeded in changing vote totals to help Donald Trump win the 2016 election. That was what the big, huge, important disclosure from Reality Winner was, that The Intercept fell lock, stock and barrel because they wanted to. 

But even on the question not the weather they hacked the election in terms of the electoral system and changing vote totals, but in the metaphoric way, they're now trying to mean that they intended it to be, namely, that the Russians played a key role in that election, that it was Vladimir Putin's determination to help Trump win, that they hacked the DNC and Podesta emails to help that Kremlin goal that there was very little to no evidence for that either, and the intelligence community was extremely reluctant and dubious to endorse it, basically were forced to, when Obama ordered them to go back and make sure that they had released something before his leaving that allowed the media to believe that this was the overwhelming consensus of the intelligence committee. 

That is a gigantic scandal. It's not surprising. Something I believed for a long time is exactly what happened. It seemed so obvious at the time. Probably, other than the Snowden story, maybe the big investigation we did here in Brazil in 2019 and 2020 that resulted in Lula being freed from prison, I can't recall any story, any reporting I did that generated more contempt and hatred and pushback because it was a religion to the mainstream media and the Democratic Party. And not just the partisans of the Democratic Party, but most of the liberal left part of the party, though they deny it now, bought into this Russiagate story as well. And I do think it's so refreshing anytime you get disclosures of classified documents that are concealing, not information that might harm the American public or the national security of the United States, that they're disclosed, but that will harm the reputation of people in charge because it shows corruption that they abused the secrecy powers to conceal. 

Unfortunately, there is this skepticism that it's being done to distract from Epstein and partially it probably is. And there's going to be very little coverage of this because the media outlets that would cover it, that should cover it, are the ones who are the leading perpetrators of it. How can they without admitting massive guilt? They're never going to do it, they still haven't done it to this day, despite being caught lying repeatedly that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation, a much more straightforward lie that they got caught disseminating over and over before the election. So, I don't expect this to do much. 

You can see the only people who are talking about this are the people who were skeptical of the Russiagate story from the start. A lot of vindication is definitely deserved. People should claim it. It's an important story to explain to the public. But the people who really deserve accountability for this probably aren't going to get any and that's one of the major problems of our system. And until about a month ago, that's what the MAGA movement was saying was so important about the Epstein files as well, that people engaged in wrongdoing will face no accountability because these documents have been hidden. It seems like these documents are going to remain hidden, even more so because of the new determination by President Trump, for whatever his reasons, to keep them hidden and even to disparage their reliability or authenticity, even if they did get released. 

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All right, Columbia University and the White House announced a major new deal with the Trump Administration to restore their funding. The Trump White House cut off all research funding for Columbia, threatened to punish it in all sorts of other ways based on alleged claims that they tolerate antisemitism, that they allow Jewish students to be harassed, all those claims that the Trump administration has been making gain greater control of the curriculum at colleges, speech codes at colleges, faculty hiring at colleges. Columbia capitulated as it was clear they were going to do and they made this big announcement today.

@samsonite about that deal asked this: 

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God, you must be very well-spoken, very polite if you have to apologize for “what the hell is going on here” and say, “pardon my language.” For a lot of people, that is actually very elevated language, so congratulations on that. 

And then, there's a related issue that I'll get to with this next question, but the Columbia deal basically doesn't make sense on its own, because the idea is it's a deal to restore financing of the U.S. government to Colombia, even though part of the deal is that Colombia has to pay $200 million to the Trump administration, kind of as a punishment or a fee, they're accepting that they'll lose $200 million for all that naughty and bad things that they did in allowing too much criticism of Israel, and allowing protests to get out of control in the view of the Trump administration – in general, just allowing too much antisemitic thoughts and ideas and expression to the point that Jewish students are being endangered. There are also lawsuits brought by Jewish students against Columbia that Columbia is now agreeing to pay millions of dollars in order to settle. 

So, congratulations to the very put-upon, marginalized and oppressed Jewish students at Columbia who are now going to get major payoffs for all the hardship and the harassment and the oppression and marginalization they had to endure from seeing protests that made them uncomfortable. 

You can believe that Columbia University allowed the protest to get out of hand if you want. We've gone over this many times before. The history of student protests in this country has been an iconic part of the college experience. The protest against the Vietnam War in the ‘60s were infinitely more disruptive and radical than the protests throughout 2023, mostly into 2024, at most campuses where the resistance was largely symbolic. The campus protests at almost every school, including Columbia, were filled with Jewish students themselves, despite all the speech about how these protests were dangerous and harassing for Jewish students; huge numbers of Jews composed these protests and these encampments. We interviewed several of them to the point that every Friday night, inside the Columbia encampments, supposedly the most antisemitic one, the most dangerous one, with a history at the school of antisemitism, there were Shabbat dinners for all the protesters where Muslim, Christian and Jewish students, as part of these protests, would all get together for Shabbat dinner. They celebrated Muslim holidays and Christian holidays together. 

So, there was a huge exaggeration, which there always is, of any threat anytime the government wants to seize power over our private institutions or academic institutions. There's also a lot of misconception about the funding that comes from the U.S. government to these universities. The government doesn’t fund universities and just say, here's $500 million for you to use how you want. They task these universities who can attract the greatest minds from all over the world to pay for research facilities and labs, to research cures and treatments, to research all sorts of technology, including military technology. That's where a lot of military technology comes from. It's not a charity. It's being done to keep the United States competitive. A lot of the research ends up being done in our elite universities and never before has this money come with attachments about what views can be heard on campus or what kinds of professors can teach certain things and how they have to be approved by the government. 

So, two of the things that Columbia University has done that jeopardize free speech rights and academic freedom, not for foreign students and not in ways that pertain to the right to protest, it has nothing to do with the protest, it has nothing do with foreign students, it's purely about the expression of ideas, the peaceful expression of ideas in a classroom, in a student newspaper or what can be taught in schools. Part of it is that the curriculum for certain departments, obviously beginning with the Middle East Studies Department, which is the one of greatest interest to the government because that's where Israel can be criticized and discussed, now has to be subject to the review of the federal government. And on top of that, and even worse, the Trump administration demanded that Columbia adopt what Harvard has already adopted under government pressure and other universities as well, which is a radically expanded hate speech code that outlaws and bans ideas that have always been permissible to express at our leading universities under the First Amendment and the basic notions of academic freedom, but that are not outlawed. 

You're not allowed, for example, to call Israel a racist endeavor, even though you're allowed to call the United States a racist endeavor, even though you're allowed call any other country a racist endeavor, just not Israel. You're not allowed to say that Jews played a role in killing Jesus, even though Christians have believed this for centuries: not allowed to say. It's not like you can say it and then other people get to debate it. That's now deemed antisemitic. You can't subject Israel to criticism that you can't prove you subject other countries equally to the exact same criticism. So, like if you criticize Israel for engaging in a genocide, but you haven't said the same thing about some faction in the Sudan that does the same things, you can be guilty of antisemitism. Even you may not talk about the Sudan because your government has no role in it, while your government funds and arms what's happening and what's being done in Gaza. 

Suddenly, you have this burden of proof when you criticize Israel to show that you criticize other countries in exactly the same way. You don't have that burden to prove for any other country. You can criticize China without having to prove that you criticized other countries in the same ways. The burden is only for Israel. You're not allowed to say that certain Jewish individuals seem to have more loyalty to Israel than they do to the United States, even though it's so clearly true. People like Ben Shapiro and Bari Weiss and so many others, you are not allowed to say that anymore, not allowed to express that. If you do, you're now in violation of the expanded hate speech code. And the whole point of this is to severely chill what can be said to young people about Israel, what young people can say about Israel on college campuses, about risking punishment. 

I want you to think about that for a minute. How unbelievably severe that is, how seriously grave an assault on free speech that is, not in defense of marginalized American groups, which is bad enough, but in defense of a foreign country and its interests and those who are loyal to it. Remember, the Trump movement spent a decade viciously mocking the idea that marginalized groups, minority groups and college campuses were intended to feel safe by banning ideas that make them uncomfortable. Now, that's exactly what the Trump administration required Columbia to do in exchange for having its research funding restored – and Harvard as well. 

What's happening is everybody sees the same polling data that we've shown you, that huge numbers of people in the United States have dramatically revised toward the negative side, their views of Israel and the U.S. relationship to Israel. And there's panic over that among Israel and its loyalists in the United States, who are reacting to that by trying to squash and destroy any place that allows criticism of Israel. Remember, the reason why the TikTok ban passed was not because of the China issue, which never got enough votes or near enough. It only got enough votes after October 7, when enough Democrats got convinced that one of the reasons why so many young people had turned against Israel and were against the war in Gaza was because TikTok was allowing too much anti-Israel pro-Palestinian sentiment to be expressed and they wanted to either force TikTok to close because of that or to force it to be transferred to a corporation that would be much more aggressive about censoring material that the government wanted suppressed. 

Right now, there's this amazing thing happening where Paramount is involved in a major merger. That's the parent company of CBS News and other networks, as well, and the idea of the merger, basically, is that Larry Ellison's son – Larry Ellison, the founder of Oracle who's worth $30, $35 billion – his son, the heir to the Ellison fortune and the Ellinson family are fanatical supporters of Israel, are buying CBS News, with “60 Minutes” being one of the examples and “60 Minutes” has been widely criticized for having broadcast a lot of reports that are very pro-Israel, but also some that were critical. And not only is he now taking control of CBS, but he's negotiating with Bari Weiss to buy her Israeli government state outlet, the Free Press, for something like $200 million. And not only will the Free Press then become part of CBS News, but she will have some sort of ombudsman role or even a correspondent role at “60 Minutes.” 

So, you see this change in public opinion about Israel, and then you see the response, which is attacking all of our major institutions, imposing censorship on them, and using billionaire wealth to buy up these media outlets, and then installing within them people who are going to ensure that the content is completely pro-Israel. I hear all the time, they ask, like, “Why do you talk about Israel so much? Why are you so obsessed with Israel?” Obsessed with Israel? These are the people who are passing laws and bills and doing things every single day on behalf of Israel. The people inside government, in the largest corporations, and now in our academic institutions. 

Of course, I'm going to report on it. I'm going to focus on it a lot more when our government is paying for what I think is the greatest atrocity in humanitarian crime of the 21st century, which is the genocide and mass starvation in Gaza. But beyond that, it has all kinds of repercussions here at home. And they never stop. And here's just one more example. 

This is from someone called @YourLastUberDriver trying to think of what the implications of that might be. But I guess it's inspiring in the sense that if you're afraid there's a disappearance of Uber drivers, this person who asked this question will be there toward the end. They're going to be your last Uber driver. And they seem very wise, very reliable, so perhaps that's good. 

@YourLastUberDriver says this: 

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Yes, there is bipartisan legislation designed to impose greater censorship powers over the internet, over Big Tech, which we all agreed, I thought, was a terrible thing. It has bipartisan support. It's led by Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New, who's a fanatical supporter of Israel, he's a Democrat from New Jersey, as well as Don Bacon, who is a Republican from Nebraska, who is also a fanatical Israel supporter. And it comes from the ADL, whose job is to censor American discourse on behalf of Israel. 

Here's Congressman Gottheimer and Congressman Don Bacon at a George Newt conference, heralding their censorship legislation to force Big Tech to censor what they regard as antisemitic. 

Video. Josh Gottheimer, Don Bacon, AD. July 24, 2025.

I want to just emphasize that last point. He's talking about his legislation and then he says what he's particularly proud of. Wow, that's something to be so proud of. You're introducing a censorship law for American citizens, and you have the approval and background of a group with a long, aggressive tradition of demanding that people be fired or censored if they become critical of Israel. Congratulations. 

The Republican Congressman Bacon is a member of Congress who receives massive funding from AIPAC, needless to say, people are offended by his views. He's a public figure and he gets criticized on Twitter, and he sees it. People are calling him a Zionist, someone who's too loyal to Israel. He doesn't like it. And now he wants to enact a bill drafted by the ADL to force Big Tech to censor what he considers antisemitism. We don't think there's anti-black racism all over Twitter. Go look at Ilhan Omar's tweets and things that people say to her in response, or Jasmine Crockett. Go look at what Pete Buttigieg gets. You don't think there are all sorts of very anti-gay animus directed at him. Every single person in public life, no matter who you are, deals with that. Most of us are adults. We understand that it's actually healthier to allow free speech. I mean, if we hear things we really dislike, that are really ugly, it's in our bloodstream as Americans to kind of believe that about free speech, that yes, you get insults and all sorts of vituperative comments about things about you and who you are. But most of us don't have the impulse to go and censor that. And it's especially important to allow the public to express criticisms of political figures, elected officials in Washington, who are doing something like financing and arming a war. You're allowed to speak aggressively toward them, even if they don't like it. He's not even Jewish. Josh Gottheimer is Jewish. Congressman Bacon is not even Jewish. He's like, “I'm getting so much antisemitism in my Twitter feed.” Who cares? Stop reading it if it really bothers you. But passing a bill to force Big Tech to censor the stuff that you think is unpleasant!

Why is antisemitic speech more disturbing to you than anti-Black speech or anti-Muslim speech or anti-LGBT speech or anti-immigrant speech, which is also all over the place? My view on all of it is the same, which is that it's not the role of the government nor Big Tech to censor any of it. But this is what's happening throughout the democratic world. It's particularly happening in the EU, Canada, and, worst of all, in Brazil. 

We have a First Amendment that makes it more difficult, and that's why they're trying to outsource it to Big Tech. This is exactly what I thought we were all so angry about: what the Biden administration did when they forced Big Tech to censor dissent on COVID, on the 2020 election and on Ukraine. And that's what I mean. I'm the one obsessed with Israel when you have everyday members of Congress like this standing up and introducing new bills on behalf of a foreign government that attack our free speech rights as Americans. Yeah, I'm going to talk about that a lot. 

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All right, here is @AntiWarism who says: 

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Yes, this was the idea of “cancel culture” and the objections to it. It wasn't about government attacks on free speech, which is a violation of the First Amendment. It was the ideal that if you express views that are disliked by mainstream thought, that now you get fired, you get canceled, and it happens not just to people in prominent positions, but also to people on lower-level positions. 

So, here's the example. Honestly, I hate this whole format that has become popular, this Jubilee format. I can't stand how Mehdi Hassan debates. He wrote a book saying, “I'm the greatest debater” and really all he does is just filibuster and talk over people. Maybe you get out four or five words until he starts speaking over you and he thinks that's somehow an effective way of debating. 

But here's the person who basically self-identified as a fascist when Mehdi accused him of being one; he then lost his job. I think it's like a 21-year-old kid, all these people at this place were quite young and here's what happened. 

Video. Mehdi Hassan, Connor Estelle, Jubilee. July 30, 2025.

Can I understand why an employer would want to disassociate themselves from that person, saying that in that manner? Yes, I can understand that.  But I also think that if we have this climate where people cannot say what they believe unless it's completely acceptable to power factions or mainstream forces, that even though we have a First Amendment that restricts what the government can do in theory, oftentimes, cultural repression and social ostracization are much more potent and effective tools for controlling ideas – in fact, George Orwell has wrote a preface to Animal Farm, where he basically said that although the Soviet Union has very overt forms of repression and censorship, if you criticize Stalin, the KGB shows up at your house and takes you away and sends you to a gulag, in Siberia or whatever, that actually the British form of censorship is much more effective. It's basically diluting people into thinking that they're free, but making sure they get fired, they're unemployable, they don't get heard in the media, if they express any opinions outside the very narrow range of accepted opinions. Ironically, his preface couldn't be published because it was too sensitive. It seemed like almost too pro-Russian at a time when the West was entering the Cold War. His preface was censored, but it's now available; you can go read it online. I think it's absolutely right. 

There were all these examples in the Black Lives Matter movement, or Me Too, when low-level workers got fired for any kind of questioning or deviation from the right language. They had a truck driver who supposedly made the okay sign at a traffic stop, which was interpreted as a white supremacist message, and he got fired. Media outlets were doxing people for comments they were leaving to get them fired. That climate is incredibly repressive, intimidating, but after October 7, huge numbers of people in media, Hollywood and politics and journalism were fired for expressing criticism of Israel and their destruction of Gaza in academia as well. And suddenly, all the concerns about cancel culture disappeared. 

So, if you're 21 years old and you basically say “I want Trump to be a king and an autocrat and that's because I'm a fascist, self-identifying as a fascist is going to fall rather shockingly on the ears of a lot of people in the United States. And if you're an employer who deals with the public and you're a private company, especially if you are in a certain community and deal with a certain group of people, it might be very harmful to your business interests to have somebody like that employed. So I understand why that could happen. 

Again, if this were an isolated case, I would say: when you live in a society, you do have to kind of think about how you express yourself and what effect it has on others; if you decide you don't, then you probably are going to suffer consequences. It’s just a lesson you learn in life, living in a society; you have to accommodate, to some extent, how you're perceived.

But I also think that it can be very dangerous if it becomes too much of an automatic reaction, which, in a lot of different ways, I think it became, and a lot of the right was very opposed to these sorts of things when it was conservatives who were largely the target of it, and then, after October 7, a lot of that changed. People started applauding much more draconian forms of cancel culture like Bill Ackman, spearheading and organizing a blacklist among the most powerful law firms, Wall Street banks and hedge funds to vow never to hire undergraduate kids, 18 to 22, who sign a letter condemning Israel for their use of indiscriminate violence in Gaza, trying to make sure they're unemployable and having mass firings of people who express similar views. I noticed the disappearance of the concerns over cancel culture when that happened. And so, if you're going to be concerned with cancel culture and you don't apply it equally, it's like anything, not really a principle. 

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All right, last question is from @KCM71, who says this:

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Let me say, I find this dynamic so fascinating that whenever the American left is faced with a nominee from the Democratic Party that they hate, they are Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or countless senators or whomever, they're told it's your obligation to support and vote for whoever your party nominates, whether you like them or not. But the minute there's a nominee of the Democratic Party that the Democratic Party nominates who the establishment hates and the left likes, that obligation disappears. 

I still believe, in 2016, had the DNC not cheated and Bernie Sanders had won the Democratic nomination, Democratic Party elites absolutely would have done everything to prevent him from being president, even if it meant electing Trump because what party leaders typically fear the most is the loss of their prerogatives within their own party. They would rather lose and keep control of the party than win if it means this shifting to some new group or some new generation. 

We especially saw that when Jeremy Corbyn became the leader of the Labour Party and the vast majority of Blairites and people in the center and the center-right of that party, overwhelmingly and overtly sought to destroy him, not to get a new party leader in, but to ensure that he lost the election. They would rather have lost to Boris Johnson, had Boris Johnson become prime minister, which is what happened, than lose control of the Labour Party by winning under Jeremy Corbyn. 

This is why I don't think that the Democratic establishment and elites believe they can stop Zohran at this point, in part because the alternatives are just so weak. I mean, you have Andrew Cuomo completely plagued by all sorts of scandal, just old, not really having anything to do with New York City, clearly not even wanting to be mayor; you have Eric Adams who caught red-handed taking bribes from Turkey and was only let go because he did a deal with the Trump administration to allow ICE to operate in New York City and then Curtis Sliwa, who's not a serious candidate, but are going to divide the vote enough to ensure that Zohran will win – not 100% sure anything could happen, but I think they're kind of resigned to it. 

But they also are afraid, more so – you see this with Hakeem Jeffries: Zohran Mamdani won Hakeem Jeffries’ congressional district by 12 points and yet, Hakeem Jeffries, the head of the Democratic House caucus in New York, refuses to endorse Zohran Mamdani. Left-wing people to this day got angry that Bernie Sanders didn't endorse Hillary Clinton quickly enough. He went around the country campaigning for her, but they say he didn't do it enthusiastically enough. 

But look at the prerogatives they take for themselves and there's never a point at which the left says, God, these people hate us so much. Like, why are we giving them our support when they so blatantly subvert and sabotage our candidates. You would think they would just have some dignity and finally leave. Jeremy Corbyn finally left the Labour Party, but only this week. He and a much younger, leftist member of parliament whose parents or grandparents were Pakistani immigrants to the U.K. – but she was born in the U.K. as her parents were third generation now, U.K. citizens – the two of them are the co-leaders of this new party in protest of the Labour Party's support for Israel and other policies as well because they concluded that there's no way within the Labour Party to actually reform. They will sabotage you if you try. 

And this is something we saw with AOC, when AOC was running and won her primary, in 2018, against a very senior member of the Democratic leadership, Joe Crowley, who was really in line to become House Speaker once Nancy Pelosi left, she sounded all these radical notes. I interviewed her. I was amazed at how thoughtful she seemed to be about making sure that her primary criticisms are directed mostly at the Democratic Party, how she understood that her main job had to be to go in and change the Democratic Party and not the Republican Party, so that there were two actual parties with two different sets of views. She gets in and she understands that to play the game, to get ahead, to gain power, you have to compromise constantly, become a good Democrat. She's barely distinguishable from Nancy Pelosi at this point. Remember, AOC just voted last week to send $500 million in military aid to Israel while calling it a genocide. Even while four members of her own party, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Summer Lee and Al Green, all voted for Marjorie Taylor Greene's amendment to block that money from going there. AOC voted to send $500 million to Israel. 

One of the things that got my attention about her in 2018 was when she said – this was at the time when the Palestinians were doing their peaceful march up to the border fence, and the Israelis started just sniping them to death – and AOC said, “It's time for the Democratic Party to stop supporting these grotesque human rights abuses by Israel.” And I thought, OK, that's interesting to me. And now, here she is just a few years later, sending $500 million to Israel while pretending to believe that Israel is engaged in a genocide. 

So, there is the very real question of whether somebody who's very politically ambitious, as Zohran Mamdani is, can possibly change anything with any party system that is designed to destroy any challenge to its leadership, to its core dogma, to its donor base. And you see him making some concessions already. And while I still hope he wins given the alternatives, I mean the part of the debate alone where they said, “What's your first foreign trip going to be? And they all said, “We're going to go to the Holy Land and we're going to go right to Israel and we going to take our first trip to Israel” and he said, “I'm going to stay at home and work on the affordability issues facing the people of our city.” That alone, that kind of politics – as mayor of an American city, my job is to focus on the American people and not go pay some homage to Israel or to some other foreign country or that he understands that affordability and economic populism is the key issue, not culture war stuff, which is what he ran on in his campaign – those are the kind of things, that populist messages, that I think we need more of, both on the left and the right. But if you ask me, do I think he's going to immediately start compromising? Then my answer is probably going to be yes, because he's going to have to work with the Democratic Party infrastructure to get anything done. 

I think I might have talked about this before, but I'll just tell this quick story. When my husband got elected to become an elected official and got into elected office, first as a city councilman in Rio de Janeiro, and then as a member of the Brazilian Congress, I saw this firsthand. He wanted to go and introduce packages and laws and projects to help the people of his community, the people who voted for him, and whom he felt an obligation to serve. The only reason why he was interested in politics was to try to change people's material lives for the better. And then you get there, and you hear like, “Oh, that seems like a good bill. We're not sure we can get it to the fore, though. But if you're willing to support this project of mine, it's kind of corrupt, like just about greasing the wheels, then, maybe, you'll be able to get your bill to the fore and we support you.” You're suddenly faced with this choice: do I now start compromising and becoming part of the system in the hope that I can actually get the things done that I want to get done or do I just stand on principle and say, no, I'm not going to play your game, even if it means I can never get my things to the floor? Maybe in 10 years you can use your charisma and ability to get a platform. 

When you first get there, you're faced with these huge obstacles where, if you want to do anything, you have to play the game. And then, at some point, you have to consider how much are you really compromising to serve your original goals, or how much are you now compromising because you want to get on the key committees, and what are the motives that you want to get on the keys committees, is it because that's a better path to power? It's a very, very difficult road to navigate. Even if you arrive with the best of intentions, you find yourself in this corrupt, sleazy system constructed to co-opt you and to basically get you to play the game that you were running to destroy and it's very hard once you're immersed in it to see what the real principles are and what the real compromises are that are going to actually undermine what you set out to be. I think the only way to do that is by avoiding the structures that are already so fundamentally rotted and so fundamentally corrupt that they're going to contaminate you the more you attach yourself to them. 

I think being part of the Democratic Party is going to guarantee that you end up on the AOC to Pelosi path. Remember, Nancy Pelosi, when she started a career from San Francisco, was considered way to the left in the Democratic Party and by the end, she had no ideology. She was just a manager, like a technocrat, supporting wars and Wall Street and finance, insider trading. That's the path that you end up on and that the system is guaranteed to lure you into. You have to be someone who just has a personality that's very combative, very willing to sacrifice your own ambition and self-interest in career pursuits to combat. 

And if you ask me if that's Zohran Mamdani, I don't know him well enough to say one way or the other for sure, but it doesn't seem like that's what he is to me. Kind of like what Obama pretended to be and then wasn't. Every 10 years the Democratic Party offers a new person like this: here's the exciting one, here's a new one, here's the one who's really going to be on your side. We know you hate our party, we know you hit our dogma, our leadership, but look, we found something really new and exciting for you and it keeps people, young people and people identified as the left, on that path to identifying with the Democratic Party. 

Oftentimes, the Democratic Party changes very little; usually, that's the case. Everybody likes to keep up hope. Nobody likes to be defeatist or nihilistic but wants to believe that there's something hopeful. I'm the same way. Why would I wake up and focus on these sorts of things every day unless I believe that there were prospects and hope for positive change? 

I've seen positive change. You look at history, you look at current politics. It can happen. Changes in public opinion can happen. You want to believe that if you didn't believe that you would go do something else, if you thought it was all futile. But the road of being lured in by outsiders to the Democratic Party who seek to get into the Democratic Party and assume power within it is one fraught with almost nothing but disappointment, defeat and betrayal, ultimately, a draining of any belief that that continues to be the correct path. And people want to believe that. So, they keep kind of being vulnerable to that sales pitch. 

Maybe Zohran will be different. It's possible. But I certainly won't be shocked sitting here six months from now or a year from now if someone comes and shows me or I see for myself all the evidence that he's basically morphing into AOC and then Nancy Pelosi, that will not shock me in the slightest. 

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Aaron Maté on More Russiagate Fallout, Protests in Ukraine and Israel's Strikes on Syria with Special Guests John Solomon, Marta Havryshko, and Joshua Landis
System Update #491

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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I'm Aaron Maté, sitting in for Glenn Greenwald. 

Tonight, we'll be looking at three major stories: the latest in Russiagate and the latest as well in Ukraine and Syria. There's a through line to all three of these stories. That's the CIA. That is right. From Russiagate to Ukraine to Syria, a lot of the mess that we're still dealing with after so many years in all these major stories runs through the CIA. 

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Interview: John Solomon 

During Donald Trump's first term, the dominant story of his presidency was the allegation that he had secretly conspired with Russia as part of a massive Russian interference campaign to install him in office. A lot of this story was fueled by intelligence officials who fueled the Russiagate conspiracy theory with anonymous stories to the press. Well, now we all know, after multiple investigations, that a lot of it was a scam and we continue to learn more. The new Director of National Intelligence under Trump, Tulsi Gabbard, has been declassifying critical information on the Russiagate story and unveiling a brand-new batch of newly disclosed records. Tulsi Gabbard accused Barack Obama of being a part of a plot against Trump. 

Video. Tulsi Gabbard, White House July 23, 2025.

So, that's Tulsi Gabbard accusing Barack Obama and other officials in his administration of being part of a coup against Trump. 

I think the language is a little bit too strong. I also think that the administration has messed up some of the messaging here in putting out the Russiagate documents. They've conflated, for example, vote hacking and email hacking. Email hacking was the core allegation at the heart of Russiagate and if you listen to the messaging that Tulsi Gabbard has been putting out, she's conflating the two. 

So, there have been some mistakes in putting out this story, and it also comes out of time when there's a lot of anger at the Trump administration for reneging on their promise to bring disclosure to the story of Jeffrey Epstein, which Donald Trump is very much implicated in. However, that does not negate the fact that there are really important disclosures in these new Russiagate documents. 

I have a brand-new article at RealClear Investigations talking about what I think is the essential story here, which is that the core allegation at the heart of Russiagate, along with the conspiracy theory that Trump and Russia were in cahoots, which nobody believes anymore. But the other major story was that Russia waged a massive interference campaign, and the heart of that supposed interference campaign was that Russian stole emails from the Democratic Party and released them via WikiLeaks. 

Well, if you read the new documents, you will see that U.S. intelligence officials who lodged this Russian email hacking allegation buried the fact that there was dissent at the highest levels that Russia was responsible for the hack and release of these emails. The NSA and the FBI, two premier U.S. intelligence agencies, expressed low confidence in that Russian hacking allegation. That assessment from the FBI and the NSA, which was suppressed until now, until Tulsi Gabbard just released it. 

So even though the messaging has been screwed up, the disclosures are important, and transparency is paramount because whether you want to think this was a coup or not, this was an attempt to frame Trump and his campaign as Russian agents and accuse Russia of a massive interference campaign that was aimed at destroying American democracy. There have been many consequences to this Russiagate scandal, including fueling tensions with Russia, and I think helping to lead to the current crisis we're in inside Ukraine. 

To discuss all this and more, I am joined by one of the premier journalists on the Russiagate story. John Solomon is the founder of the website, Just the News, a veteran reporter who's previously worked for The Washington Post and Associated Press, and he's been on the Russiagate story since day one. 

Aaron Maté: John Solomon, thanks so much for joining us on System Update. 

 

John Solomon: Yeah, great to be with you. Great to join you. 

 

Aaron Maté: You have covered Russiagate extensively, and we've just gotten a series of really important document releases declassified by the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. For people not following this story as closely as you and I have, what do you think is most important to know, and what revelations stand out to you? 

 

John Solomon: What we now know is that both our intelligence and our law enforcement communities were hijacked by political operatives in the 2016 election to take the normal process of how you would evaluate election interference, which goes on, by the way, in every election with multiple countries, and tried to turn it into a political weapon and to create the perception in the public that Donald Trump conspired with Vladimir Putin to defeat Hillary Clinton. 

That concept starts with Hillary Clinton herself. The intelligence committee intercepts a conversation indicating that Hillary personally approved a plan in mid-July to hang a fake Russian shingle on Donald Trump's campaign house, basically, play a dirty trick and make it look like Vladimir and Donald were together in the election. The President of the United States at the time, Barack Obama, was personally warned about this on or about July 25 by John Brennan. Then, five days later, the president does not stop the FBI when the FBI decides to open up on that allegation. Between July and November, there's a concerted effort to get an FBI investigation going, to get a FISA warrant going, to then leak the information to try to get voters to believe this false story that was an illusion of the Clinton campaign. 

Donald Trump still wins the election, not with Vladimir Putin's help, but with the help of the American people. In December, with Hillary Clinton chastened by her loss, the intelligence community, working with John Brennan, tries to create a plausible explanation that Hillary only lost because Vladimir Putin had hijacked the election for Donald Trump. And they do this over the objections of career CIA officials. They do this in violation of the Intelligence Committee's directive rules; they do it by relying on a document that, by December 2016, the Steele Dossier, we all know it now, had been fully discredited, yet is used to drive a conclusion that Vladimir Putin was trying specifically to help Donald Trump win. It's really dramatic how it happens. 

On December 8, 2016, after the election, the Intelligence Committee was going to come to Barack Obama and say, “Hey, we assess that Russia, like it always did, gotten meddled in the election a little bit, but it did not have a favorite candidate.” In fact, it so much didn't have a favored candidate that it dropped out of its active measures, its “dirty tricks,” its intelligence, in October, the very month, if you were going to try to influence the election, you would most be active, right? If you wanted Hillary or Donald Trump to win, October's the month when people are making up their minds: that's when you would do your most active things. Putin pulls out of the election in October. 

On December 8, they were going to tell Barack Obama that that briefing had been canceled. The next day, Barack Obama orders a new review, led only by John Brennan, James Comey, and the NSA director, and within a few short weeks, they flip-flop the conclusions and say, “Oh, we've now decided, magically, that Vladimir Putin was specifically trying to help Donald Trump.” The only way they can get there, by today's explosive revelations that Tulsi Gabbard gave us, is because they have to use the Steele Dossier, which by that time has been discredited over and over again. Bruce Ohr told them in August that it was not to be relied on. The CIA warned the FBI in September that Steele's network of sources had been infiltrated by Russian intelligence. He needed to be reevaluated. The FBI fires Christopher Steele after catching him leaking the existence of the investigation and his dossier in November, and by December, the FBI has completed a spreadsheet of every sentence of the Steele dossier and concluded they can't corroborate it, or they've debunked every sentence. And despite all that, they decide to use it over the rules of the Intelligence Committee to plant this dirty secret or to plant a lie on the American people that Vladimir Putin helped Donald Trump win the election. 

 

Aaron Maté: I'm personally skeptical that there even was any kind of serious Russian meddling operation at all. There were some Facebook ads, we know about that, and some memes, but in terms of the email hacking, I am even more skeptical now after seeing the newly declassified intelligence. But before I get into that with you, I want to go back to July, because it's really important what you discussed initially. 

So, in July, we learned years later, that the Obama administration got a warning that Russia was aware of a plot to falsely tie Trump to Russia and despite that, as you explained, the Obama administration still let the FBI go ahead with its collusion investigation. And what we also learned way later was that weeks before the FBI opened up its fake collusion investigation into Trump and Russia, Victoria Nuland, who was then a senior State Department official, authorized the FBI to go and collect the Steele dossier, which is the Clinton campaign-funded collection of conspiracy theories. But yet the FBI wants us to believe that it had nothing to do with their decision to open up Crossfire Hurricane, the Trump-Russia occlusion probe. But on the issue of this warning by Brennan, of the so-called Clinton plan intelligence… 

 

John Solomon: Let me stop here, just for one second, because you just said something pretty profound. It's really important to realize that after they're warned that Hillary Clinton's going to plant the dirty trick, the FBI's FISA warrant relies on the direct evidence of that dirty trick. The Steele dossier was a big part of the dirty trick that the Clinton campaign was planting, along with the fake Alpha Bank story. The FBI takes the very fruit of what they know to be a dirty trick because they were warned, and they use it to predicate the investigation. That's what makes it more than just bumbling and stumbling. That's why a lot of people like Kash Patel, who's now open to conspiracy case, believe it was criminal in nature. 

 

Aaron Maté: Absolutely. Okay, speaking of criminal, in early September, weeks after John Brennan shared this information that Russia is aware of a Clinton plot to falsely tie Trump to Russia. All of a sudden, John Brennan sends a criminal referral or an investigative referral to the FBI, to James Comey, to Peter Strzok, warning them about this Clinton plan intelligence, this Clinton plot to falsely tie Trump to Russia. And yet nothing happens, and in fact, years later, James Comey is asked about this in Congress, and he claims it doesn't ring any bells. 

What do you think is going on here? So, Brennan received his intelligence, he warns Obama about it, then in September, why does he all of a sudden send a referral to the FBI? Do you buy James Comey's claim that it doesn't ring any bells? He doesn't remember receiving that referral. 

 

John Solomon: On multiple instances over the last four or five years, including this week when Barack Obama said, “I don't know how they can say I was part of a conspiracy,” I kept thinking back to the figure on the old Hogan Heroes TV show, Sgt. Schultz, who always used to say, “I know nothing,” even though he knew everything that was going on in the camp. 

It's important to realize that these statements are not true, based on the emails, text messages and other evidence we have. Everybody was read into these different developments as they were happening. There's no chance that James Comey can't remember that he was warned that Hillary Clinton was going to hang a dirty shingle on Donald Trump's house called Russia collusion. You just would remember something that important. If it didn't get to him, it would be one of the greatest failures of the FBI. You'd tell your director things of this importance. 

Everybody claims a lack of knowledge, even though they're present for the moments when these happen. Let's take Barack Obama's denial this week, because it can be disassembled so quickly. Barack Obama is basically like, “This is a political weapon; I didn't do anything. I don't even know what they're talking about.” He's in the meeting with Brennan in July when he's told Hillary Clinton's going to do this. In December, he orders the re-review after the Intelligence Committee comes to a conclusion that's different. In January, just 15 days before Donald Trump was going to take office, he presided over the meeting in the White House with Joe Biden, where they were trying to figure out how they can keep the investigation of Mike Flynn open, the incoming national security advisor. 

That is so significant, because one day before, on January 4, the FBI had decided that Mike Flynn had not engaged in a single act of criminality and that he should be cleared in the investigation against him that was launched during the election, it should be shut down. And there is Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and the FBI gang trying to figure out how we can keep this going. When they leave that meeting, there's an FBI agent so disturbed by what happened in that meeting. What he witnessed, he writes down, is our mission here to get the truth for the American people, or are we just trying to trip up Mike Flynn to lie so we can charge him with something? That's what a senior FBI official witnessed the President of the United States engaging in. Barack Obama, I can refresh your recollections pretty quickly. Stop lying to the American people. Own up to what you did. 

 

Aaron Maté: And then you have John Brennan, who testified under oath that the Steele Dossier played no part in the formation of that intelligence community assessment that Barack Obama ordered in December 2016, and that was released to the public in January 2017. John Brennan said to Congress that the Steele Dossier was in no way used for the intelligence community assessment that accused Russia of a sweeping operation to try to elect Trump. 

Now we know that that's false. We've seen the new report by HPSCI, the House Intelligence Committee, that's just been declassified by Tulsi Gabbard, which says that the Steele Dossier was explicitly referenced in the body of the ICA and that John Brennan himself personally argued in favor of including it over the objections of some senior CIA analysts. 

 

John Solomon: Yeah, and by the way, Brennan gets very similar testimony to what you show, again, in 2023, which is in the Statute of Limitations right now. There are four bullets upon which the key conclusions of the ICA that was produced in December 2016 rest on one of those bullets, which is the bullet that helps back up the argument that Donald Trump was aided by Putin. Putin's goal was to help Donald Trump win. That bullet refers to Annex 1, which is the annex that we now know to be the Steele Dossier. So, it was used as an analytical product to come to the most contentious of the analytical conclusions, which is that contrary to what the government had been saying for months, now, we're going to say that Putin was trying to help Donald Trump and that rests on the Steele Dossier, which by December, as we've said, was completely debunked by the time. It was not a reliable intelligence product. It contradicts everything you just heard in that clip from John Brennan. 

 

Aaron Maté: Alright, so on the issue of Russian email hacking, which was the core Russiagate allegation – it's actually what triggered Russiagate when CrowdStrike, a firm working for Hillary Clinton's campaign, came out in June 2016 and accused Russia of hacking the DNC. We've learned since then that the FBI relied on CrowdStrike’s forensics, even though CrowdStrike redacted its own reports and refused to let the FBI examine the DNC's servers for itself. Just as the FBI relied on the Steele Dossier, I've always flagged this as a major investigative lapse because you're relying on Trump's political opponent for such a critical component of this investigation and now, we've gotten more information that I think bolsters skepticism of this Russian hacking allegation. 

So, even if Russia did hack into the DNC servers which is quite plausible and it seems as if the intelligence community had a basis to believe that the actual evidence that Russia took something from the server and gave it to WikiLeaks remains very thin and now you have, newly released by Tulsi Gabbard, in September 2016, an intelligence community assessment that says the FBI and the NSA had low confidence that Russia actually hacked the emails and gave them to other actors, including WikiLeaks, for publication. We only got that now, this low confidence. Somehow, the FBI, the NSA go from expressing low confidence to going along with the John Brennan-led judgment that actually it was Russia that hacked and leaked the DNC. 

And what happens? Well, the timeline is, after the election, as you mentioned, Barack Obama orders a brand-new assessment and at a December 9 meeting, they decide ‘we're going to make an attribution to Russia.’ Now, missing from that meeting are James Comey and Mike Rogers, the respective heads of the FBI and the NSA, who had at that point still been dissenting on this Russian email hacking claim. What I'm speculating here is that it was at that point that they were told to fall in line, and James Comey, having been blamed for Hillary Clinton losing because of his handling of the Clinton email server investigation, he goes along with it. That's what I'm speculating here. 

What do you think? And what do you make of this very assessment that there was low confidence here? 

 

John Solomon: So, listen, you've done such a great reporting, Aaron, you know, as well as anyone, how elaborate this dirty trick was. I believe that that probably will be what the evidence shows when we're done. This is the time now where we have the contemporaneous documents, but we haven't compelled people to go before a grand jury and find out the truth on this. And I think the next moment, the moment we'll know whether this is going to be a serious move towards accountability or just another great set of Fox News revelations that go away in a few months, is whether Pam Bondi follows the normal procedures for the Justice Department. 

As you laid out, and we've laid out for the last 20 minutes, this is a conspiracy case now. And by the way, Kash Patel opened a predicated conspiracy case in April, looking at the events of 2016 through 2024 as one ongoing conspiracy. Clear Hillary Clinton, hang the Russian shingle on Donald Trump, Hunter Biden's got a Ukraine problem, start Ukraine impeachment, Joe Biden's got to classified documents problem, let's raid Donald Trump's house and find classified documents problem for him. They're looking at that as one continuous conspiracy, which by the way, winds back the statutes. You can now start taking events in 2016 and make them part of the conspiracy. 

If in any other case, a conspiracy case is open, the usual step that the FBI and the Justice Department take is they create a federal strike force. If this was a drug kingpin for the cartels or a godfather for the mafia, the next step is, the FBI predicated a case, you now create a Federal Strike Task Force and you take your best prosecutors and your agents, you make them one team and they look at every overt act and try to tell you whether this rises to the level of a criminal conspiracy. If Pam Bondi does that in the next few days or weeks, then something serious is going on. If she doesn't, then all we have is a lot more detail, but still a very short lack of accountability for the people who are involved in this. 

 

Aaron Maté: One more question on the email hacking. You reported years ago that there were talks with Julian Assange between Assange and the FBI, the Trump administration, where Assange was talking about providing some technical evidence that would rule out the role of state actors, including Russia, in the hack and leak. It was James Comey, I believe, that killed those talks… 

 

John Solomon: That's right, according to, I think it was Adam Waldman, the lawyer for Julian Assange at the time. That's where we learned that information. Yeah, that's what happened. And we have text messages that were going on. You can see in real time, I think Mark Warner and Comey were the ones who seemed to put the kibosh on it. That needs to be looked back now, in light of these other events, because it could be another overt act, another act of cover-up, to try to keep the lid on the dirty trick that started with Hillary Clinton. That's where a strike force and a grand jury could be potentially very helpful because there are still missing pieces of this puzzle. For instance, why didn't the FBI grab the servers? In any other investigation, you wouldn't rely on someone's private vendor and say, trust us, by the way, a private vendor who worked for a client that had a vested interest in the case, Hillary Clinton's and the Democratic National Committee, that's who they're working for at the time, you would grab the servers yourself… 

 

Aaron Maté: As they're framing Trump as a Russian agent…

 

John Solomon: …just like when they got the five thumb drives with all of Hillary Clinton’s exfiltration, you would normally look at that, but they didn't. All of the basic requirements of the FBI DIAG, all of the basic requirements of the U.S. attorney's manual, all the basic requirements of the Intelligence Communities directive, which is the Bible for how you do assessments, all of them get abandoned during this hour and during this window. All of them take all of their training and they cast it aside in order to come up with this ruse. The answer to why they did that will probably determine whether this is criminal in nature or not. 

 

Aaron Maté: Yeah, what did Comey say when he was asked about this by Congress, he said, Well, CrowdStrike, which is working for the Clinton campaign, was a highly respected firm, so nothing to see here. I suppose he could have said the same thing about Christopher Steele, a highly respected agent whom the FBI was also relying on. So, the fact that you have the FBI relying on a Clinton campaign contractor for not just one but two of Russiagate's core allegations, collusion and email hacking, the fact that we're only still getting transparency about this now, eight years later, really is mind-boggling. So you've laid out the fact that we're looking at a conspiracy case here. What are you expecting to happen in the coming months? More document releases? Who do you think they're looking at when it comes to building a criminal case? 

 

John Solomon: Well, listen, you got to have the apparatus to do it. It's one thing for the FBI to open the case and gather the evidence that's currently available, but for the evidence that hasn't been produced and needs to be forcibly produced, you need grand jury power, you need grand jury’s subpoenas. Conspiracies are typically applied to drug cartels and mob cases and things like that. If this is treated like every other case, the next step is to create a strike force and then give that strike force the ability to use a grand jury, maybe you name a special counsel because Donald Trump is the alleged victim for some of this, he creates some independence. Whether they do that or not, if they don't create the strike force, they're not following the normal procedures that a Justice Department would use for a conspiracy case like this. So, the ball is in Pam Bondi's court. The question is, is she going to shoot the three-point shot or not? I don't know the answer to that yet, but I will tell you, the way the Justice Department normally would work, the strike force would be the very next part of the process that you would see unfold in the next week or two. 

 

Aaron Maté: This conspiracy theory that Trump and Russia were in cahoots was so dominant, so widespread and so mainstream. I mean, The New York Times and The Washington Post gave themselves publishers for advancing this conspiracy theory, that I'm not expecting very much accountability from them. But I am wondering if you have thoughts on, first of all, the way Tulsi Gabbard rolled this out, there is a criticism that she conflated in her messaging, vote hacking and email hacking. And I think that criticism actually is correct. I do think she conflated it. 

 

John Solomon: Yeah, I think it's right. I agree with you. 

 

Aaron Maté: Yeah, it doesn't change the fact that she revealed important stuff, but the messaging I think has been off. And then you have the fact that Trump is dealing with this Jeffrey Epstein controversy, and there's anger even among some of the MAGA faithful that there have not been the disclosures that they were promised. I'm wondering, do you think that the fact that Trump has been hesitant to address the Jeffrey Epstein issue and told people to move on, that that might undermine the ability to get out and to convince people that this Russiagate stuff really is important? Because what critics will do here is say that Trump and Gabbard are just releasing this to deflect from the Jeffrey Epstein mess. 

 

John Solomon: Yeah, yeah, listen, Donald Trump has been worried about Russia collusion since 2017. So, it's going to be hard to say he suddenly got interested because of Epstein, right? He has cried about this and rightly so for eight years and he's done everything in his power to get the American people the truth because he felt victimized and he felt the American people were victimized. He said that to me several times in interviews and he doesn't want another president ever to face what he faced. So I don't think you can say, “Boy, Donald Trump ramped this up because he to make the Epstein thing.” The Epstein crisis exists because of bad messaging. Pam Bondi was more interested in getting in front of the camera before getting her facts straight before she got in front of the cameras, and so she messed it up. 

I think, in some way, Tulsi Gabbard's rollout on Saturday and some of the messaging in the Friday, Saturday, Sunday time frame was a little messed up. But at the end of the day, they have released really significant evidence. And we, elitists inside the beltway, worry about all the messaging and stuff. The American people just want to know, were they defrauded? And I think in Tulsi Gabbard, Pam Bondi, Kash Patel, President Trump and the others. We now have a body of evidence that could answer that question for history, could answer that question for the courts and it would be a crying shame if the normal processes of the Justice Department aren't followed in this next step. There are grounds for a criminal conspiracy case and a strike force to be named. Let's see if that happens. I think history will not judge the Epstein matter and this matter in Tulsi on the fumbles, they did make fumbles. I don't disagree with you, I totally agree with you. They'll judge them on, did they handle the evidence right and did we do the right thing? That judgment will come in the next few weeks. We'll know whether Pam Bondi and Tulsi Gabbard get us to the right place or not. Kash Patel has started the process. Let's see if it gets to the right place like every other person who's been accused of a crime would face in similar circumstances. Let's not treat it differently. If they treat it the same way as other criminal scales, I think the American people will be forgiving and remember this as a good period. 

 

Aaron Maté: John Solomon of Just the News, thank you so much for joining us. 

 

John Solomon: Aaron, great work. You are such a great reporter. I read you all the time and congratulations for the work you've done in this story. 

 

Aaron Maté: Well, likewise, you've been an essential voice understanding this whole Russiagate mess and I really appreciate you taking the time to share some of your insight with us. 

 

John Solomon: Anytime. Great honor to be on the show. 

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Interview:  Marta Havryshko

We’re turning now to Ukraine, a crisis that was very much fueled by the Russiagate controversy. Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy is facing the biggest protests he's seen since Russia invaded more than three years ago. 

To discuss Zelenskyy's current turmoil, I spoke to Marta Havryshko. She is visiting assistant professor at the Strassler Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Clark University. 

 

Aaron Maté: So for people who want to know what's going on in Ukraine, you have these massive protests now outside Zelenskyy's presidential residence calling out him cracking down on an anti-corruption bureau. What should people know? What's going on in Ukraine? 

 

Marta Havryshko: So, yesterday, for the first time since the Russian aggression in February 2022, the mass protest took place in major Ukrainian cities. Yesterday, they were in Kiev, Dnipro, Lviv, and other cities. What were the demands of protesters? They started to go out to the streets and protest with the hope that Zelenskyy will put a veto on the law adopted yesterday by the Verkhovna Rada. Actually, people call it an anti-corruption law and according to this law, the main anti-corruption bodies in Ukraine, NABU and SAPO, are losing independence and they have become subjected almost entirely to the prosecutor general, which is the person appointed by Zelenskyy. So, what does it mean? The entire activities of those structures are now paralyzed and Zelenskyy can use it as a tool to reward his loyal politicians, and to punish this loyal. That's why many, first of all young people, many students, they go out to the streets, and they started to shout and demand to veto. 

And while they were protesting, they found out that Zelenskyy very quickly signed this document and it was the big outrage. And nowadays, even in more numbers of cities, we have similar demonstrations. People are so angry. Why? Because Zelenskyy is constantly talking that Ukraine is a part of the European family, that Ukraine will join NATO and the EU, and one of the preconditions of joining the EU is the building of an effective anti-corruption system. And what is going on? Zelenskyy is destroying the whole system. That's why many people believe that the EU can even put sanctions in Ukraine, could stop this move of Ukraine to the European nation. That's why they are so angry. And mostly those people are young people, they are students. 

Aaron Maté: And Zelenskyy says that he's just cracking down on what he calls Russian influence, that somehow this anti-corruption bureau was corrupted by Russia. What do you say to that? 

 

Marta Havryshko: Actually, many observers, many experts, many anti-corruption activists say it's bullshit. In other words, it's not true, because those charges are very suspicious. First of all, some of them were accused of connections with the previous president Yanukovych and because Yanukovych is  now not a important person in political life, not Ukraine, not Russia. Some of them were charged with some offenses connected to traffic offenses that happened several years ago, and some of them were accused with direct cooperation with Russian security service. So these charges are very serious. And we know that SBU, the Security Service of Ukraine, in the past days, they made approximately eight raids across offices and homes of NABU agents, without court warrants, which makes them suspicious, debatable, controversial and basically illegal. So, but many experts say that the main reason is because NABU that was created by Western powers, predominantly U.S., was financed by U.S., inspired by U.S., agents were trained by U.S. Basically, they say that in recent days, they wanted to open investigation against the closest allies of Zelenskyy, for example, Timur Mindych, who was and is his long-term business partner, the owner of  Kvartal 95, his entertainment company, together with Zelenskyy. Also recently one of the criminal investigation with very serious charges of great corruption was opened against one of the closest friends of Zelenskyy, Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Chernyshov. And we know that Minister Oleg Chernyshov left the country, and there were so many rumors about his desire to return; he was afraid that he will be put in prison. So Mindich went to him, presumably, and argued that you can go, because you will be free, you will be not put in jail, and basically it happened, despite this massive damage to Ukraine budget, which cost approximately one billion hryvnia, to Ukraine's budget, he wasn't dismissed, and he wasn't put in trial. He paid enormously big bail, approximately $3 million, which for Ukraine's settings is an enormous sum and he's enjoying his office. He's still in place. 

But Mindych never returned to Ukraine. Why? Because he was afraid that he would be the next Oleg Chernyshov. So, experts say that by cracking down on anti-corruption bodies, Zelenskyy wants to protect, basically, his friends, his closest friends. So, he's not caring about the anti-corruption system, about the European future of Ukraine, about the effectiveness of anti-corruption struggle in Ukraine, which is one of the biggest problems in Ukraine from the very beginning of its creation, after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. According to some polls, it's even a bigger problem than Russian drone and missile attacks because corruption kills, and many protesters hold signs, “Corruption kills.” 

And another reason: some investigative journalists say that NABU was closely investigating the so-called army of drones. It was and it is still one of the biggest projects in this security service where millions of dollars – including Western aid and the taxes of Western people – are going, supported by the Ministry of Defense, supported by the general staff, supported by a crowdfunding platform, United 24, with these celebrities from around the world. So, this army of drones has a lot of speculations, and the great corruption is there, and who is involved in this? The closest people to Zelenskyy: Arakhamia, who is the leader of Zelenskyy’s party in the parliament, and Yermak, who recently became a celebrity, I would say, in Western press, because so many articles were written about him, about his power… 

 

Aaron Maté: Andriy Yermak, that's Zelenskyy's chief of staff, yeah. Yes. I mean, hearing you talk about just like the key role of U.S. funding and all this, U.S. influence, it speaks to one irony of this whole conflict, which is that, in the name of fighting supposed Russian influence, Ukraine's been consumed with U.S. influence. And Zelenskyy feels empowered to be doing these things because he wants to curry favor with the U.S. But let me ask you about the war here. 

There's an article in The Spectator, which is a British publication, that's been a huge cheerleader for the proxy war, but even they are now being forced to admit that the war is not going well for Zelenskyy and they quote a former senior official in Zelenskyy's administration who says this: “If the war continues soon there will be no Ukraine left to fight for” (The Spectator. July 20, 2025.)

 And this person goes on to say that Zelenskyy is “prolonging the war to hold on to power.” The Spectator also spoke to a Zelenskyy ally named Mariia Berlinska, who is head of a prominent Ukrainian volunteer movement, who said: “We are hanging over the abyss” and ‘Ukraine is an expendable pawn in an American game.” (The Spectator. July 20, 2025.)

How much discontent is there right now with Zelenskyy because of the war and because Ukraine continues to lose so many of its people in this horrible conflict? 

 

Marta Havryshko: Actually, this point is very common nowadays in Ukraine, it's very widespread. That's why there are so many draft dodgers, because people don't believe that they own their lives and they can make their own decisions because even when we take into consideration this mineral deal, we observe, and many members of the Ukrainian parliament, they were very open, that they didn't even read these documents, they were provided only this general paper, this general document, but two others were hidden from them. So they can't even learn the details and they just were “strongly advised” to vote for this. Some of them were threatened by Zelenskyy and his inner circle that they risk be stripped of Western/U.S. and we know that many of them have property in the Western countries, so they were really afraid of these sanctions, probably, by U.S. and they just voted for this mineral deal. 

The problem is that this mineral bill, in general is even against the Ukraine constitution because, according to the Ukrainian constitution, all minerals belong to the people, but nowadays, they are stripped even of those resources. So, many Ukrainians ask themselves, “What I'm dying for? Why should I go to the front line, to lie in these trenches, to be hunted by Russian drones, to gather remains of my comrades, to bury them, to visit their family members and to talk to their wives? Why should I suffer when I not even own those minerals? I have nothing. 

Ukraine nowadays is perceived as a colony of the West. Everything in Ukraine is influenced by the West. Every single decision: military decision, financial decision, political decision, who will be the prime minister, who will be the head of the SBU security service. From the Western media we’ll learn that Budanov attempted to dismiss 10 times, but because he has a protege in the U.S. and it is believed that he is very close to some U.S. military circles, Zelenskyy wasn't allowed to dismiss him. So, basically, Zelenskyy and his team are not independent decision-makers. That's why many people who are now protesting against this anti-corruption crackdown ask the EU, the World Bank, the White House to put pressure on Zelenskyy because they know that all leverage is there in the West. 

We learned from some investigative journalists that some people say that this decision is already being done, that Zelenskyy is not needed anymore. His popularity is going down. And after yesterday's decision, it reminded people of Yanukovych’s time so much because, during the Maidan protest in 2013-2014, Yanukovych was associated with the massive corruption, but also with this break of this European dream of Ukrainians, because he refused to sign this association with EU. And nowadays, many EU members, Ursula von der Leyen, G7, other bodies, Macron, EU, Marta Kos from EU, they express their deeply concerns about this law and many people are afraid that this will be another case when Ukraine will be prevented from entering EU and will be stopped by their own government, prevented by their politicians. That's why many people compare Zelenskyy to Yanukovych, and in the memory of many Maidan protesters, it's the biggest […], pro-Russian, bloody murder of peaceful protesters. That's why the climate is very hot nowadays in Ukraine, and we shouldn't underestimate this protest.

The main question, for me, nowadays, is: Will Zelenskyy get this other Maidan? And will he be the next Ukraine president who will be forced to leave the country and his post? 

 

Aaron Maté: And if he is forced to leave like what does this leave groups like Azov, the Azov Battalion, which is a paramilitary force with neo-Nazi ties, led by some really extremist people, they've endorsed his crackdown on this anti-corruption bureau. So if he's forced out of office, does that mean they take even more power? Would their power be reduced? Where would they stand in a post-Zelenskyy Ukraine? 

 

Marta Havryshko: I was very struck when I read statements from Bielanski, the leader of the movement. Several of his deputies and other members, not only from the Azov movement but close to the Azov movement, who are also far right like the leader of C14, Yevhen Karas, who is the extremist and far-right neo-Nazi and others, basically, those neo-Nazis who are in close alliance with Zelenskyy and heavily rely on his support, are very critical of NABU and basically support him, started to disseminate this talking point that, “Yes, there were Russian agents, assets, they are in NABU, that's why this decision was very good.” 

We should keep in mind that all these far-right in Ukraine, are proponents of the cult of a strong leader. And they really believe that one person in the state should hold the maximum power like Führer, like Mussolini and other strong leaders. That's why they supported him. And I believe – and for many NGO activists, for many human rights activists, they were surprised because many of them didn't follow their agenda. So they were very surprised, how can you? It's about the European future, it's about the democratic future of Ukraine. But those guys have nothing to do with these democratic views. They are proponents of this strong authoritarian state with a strong leader, that's why. And we observe how they enjoy the state support, support from the security service, support from military intelligence, support from oligarchs close to Zelenskyy, and they join everything. 

So, they want this war to prolong, to go on, and they support Zelenskyy. That's why I believe it could be a civil unrest if they will support this strong position of Zelenskyy. Those anti-corruption organs were created and inspired by the Biden administration mostly, by Democrats, and now Trump allegedly is not interested in fighting corruption, he's not interested all this internal politics, he just want to leave this Ukraine cause, everything, and to just concentrate on other problems, so he doesn't care about this, and Zelenskyy believes that he can get away with these actions. And Europe needs him because he's a proponent of war, he's the proponent of these radical decisions. That's why he believed that he can do whatever they want without any resistance. 

But I believe that this potential for violent resistance inside the Ukraine country – I'm talking about even civil war, yeah, civil unrest. – it is very possible because there are even more radical far-right who are not in alliance with the state. For example, this White Phoenix who is allegedly involved in the killing of this SBU Colonel Voronych and others, they are very radical, white supremacist, and they are against even the Azov movement because they believe that Azov nowadays is in conjunction with globalists and Zionists, all this conspiracy and so on and so forth. 

 

Aaron Maté: Which is why it underscores why it was not a wise decision to block the Minsk accords, block opportunities that were out there a while ago, to avoid all this bloodshed and to not empower the most extremist elements of society. 

Marta, final question for you. I recently signed an open letter in your defense that was put out because you faced a lot of threats yourself for speaking out as a Ukrainian, as a scholar of the Holocaust, against Zelenskyy's government, against the influence of the far right. Very briefly, because we only have a few minutes, talk about the threats that you faced and this open letter that a bunch of us have just signed in your defense. 

 

Marta Havryshko: Thank you, Aaron, for the support, and I invite everyone to visit my Twitter, for example, and you can sign this letter too, because the general idea of this letter that was drafted by scholars, journalists and human rights activists, is about basically free speech and academic freedom in Ukraine, because not only me, but many scholars in Ukraine face pressure. They face pressure to ally with the state agenda, to obey all these ethnic, national agenda and not criticize the rights of the far-right in Ukraine. And I started to receive those death threats more than one year ago when I criticized for the first time this Azov exhibition, the 3rd assault brigade exhibition about the Waffen-Nazis division, Galicia. During this exhibition they compared themselves to Nazi collaborators basically and I asked them: is it okay when Putin is using this denazification talking point to justify his aggression against Ukraine? What are you doing, guys? Why do you need those Nazi symbols to fight Russians? You have beautiful Ukrainian symbols. 

Then, I started to do more research and I understood that they have basically freehand in Ukraine and they are in cooperation with the state authorities and political elites. And they are so unhappy about my activity and about my research exposing all these problematic developments that they send me rape threats, death threats, they openly discuss in their channels how they will kill me. I'm cooperating with the Massachusetts State Police and FBI in this regard because they have connections with many far-right neo-Nazis group here in the U.S., Atom Weapon Division, Misanthropic Division, Oath Keepers, Proud Boys and other, because they have a similar agenda. 

As you know, many American neo-Nazis nowadays are in the war in Ukraine, fighting for Ukraine. So, basically, they are trained, they are armored to the teeth by American weapon, by NATO weapon, and I was strongly advised to be conscious about those threats and to do whatever I can to protect myself and protect my child because the very important thing and most important for me is to save my child from that threat. That's why my friends supported me, and I encourage everyone to protect freedom of speech, even despite all those challenging developments and troubling times. So, free speech is a core stone of democracy, human rights and freedom. 

 

Aaron Maté: Marta Havryschko, you're a very, very brave person, and I'm very grateful, too, for joining us on System Update. Marta Havryshko is a visiting assistant professor at the Strassler Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Clark University. Marta, thank you so much. 

 

Marta Havryshko: Thank you so much. 

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Interview: Joshua Landis

Aaron Maté: Turning now to another part of the world that's been turned upside down by a CIA proxy war: Syria. When Syrian President Bashar Assad was overthrown last year, the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, openly took credit for the regime change in Damascus. 

Video. Benjamin Netanyahu, X. December 8, 2024.

So that's Netanyahu last year, taking credit for Assad's ouster, and in Assad's place came a new government led by the former leader of al-Qaeda in Syria named Mohammed al-Golani, who since changed his name to Ahmed al-Shara. But now Netanyahu, who, after taking credit for installing this al-Qaeda offshoot, is bombing that new government as well. Just recently, Israel bombed Damascus after sectarian clashes broke out with a lot of Druze, members of the Druze minority in Syria, being killed and Netanyahu claimed he was acting on their behalf in their defense. So, what is going on in Syria? Why is sectarian killing still going on? And why is Netanyahu intervening after helping to install the new government that he is now bombing? 

Well, to discuss that, I spoke to Joshua Landis. He is the Sandra Mackey Chair and Professor of Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma. 

 

Aaron Maté: Joshua Landis, thanks so much for joining me. 

 

Joshua Landis: Aaron, it's always a pleasure. 

 

Aaron Maté: So, what's going on here with Israel bombing a government that it took credit for installing? 

 

Joshua Landis: Well, Netanyahu did say that it was because he had destroyed Hezbollah in Lebanon, or larger, decimated it, that Syria and Assad fell because there was no support for him; they'd also bombed Iran and that clipped the normal support for the Assad army. But he very quickly decided that he did not like the new ruler of Syria, Ahmed al-Shara, because he had been head of al-Qaeda for many years, and he's very closely attached to Turkey. And Turkey, of course, had welcomed Hamas leaders in Istanbul and had spoken out against Israel. So, in a sense, Iran was out, but Netanyahu said that Turkey is our new big enemy, and is dangerous, if not more dangerous than Iran. 

 

Aaron Maté: The pretext for this, according to Israel, is that there were atrocities being committed against the Druze in Suwayda, which was happening. There were atrocities. So what happened there? And then why is Israel getting involved on their behalf, or purportedly on their behalf? 

 

Joshua Landis: Well, the Druze situation. Druze are 3% of Syria. They're a small minority, heterodox, Shia, like the Alawites or the Ismailis. They did not trust this government because the government had persecuted the Druzes in the past. Ahmed al-Shara had killed about 20. He apologized and made up for it, but their shrines were blown apart. ISIS had forced many to convert, and Shara had been a member of ISIS before he was just al-Qaeda. They didn't trust him. And the Druze freed themselves of Assad's rule a year ahead of the taking of Damascus. So, they had set up their own autonomous regime. When Shara formulated his new constitution several months ago, an interim constitution for five years, it gave all power to him. There is no democracy. The parliament is appointed by him, a third directly, two-thirds indirectly. He appoints all the judges in the Supreme Court. He is everything in that country and there is a Druze minister, who's resigned, but they don't have any power. They are things like transportation, or various things. So, the real central figures are all from this al-Qaeda organization and very close to Shara, whether it's the interior or defense or foreign ministry and so forth. 

So they didn't trust him. They said we want some kind of federal arrangement. The Kurds are saying the same thing. The Alawites are saying the same thing. They don't want to just put down their arms, because that's what he was asking. He said, “I'm the ruler, I'm going to have a monopoly on power. All the minorities should put down their guns and trust us.” And they said, “We don't trust you.” And so it became a classic standoff. And that's the important background to this assault by the state on the Druze Mountain. It's a mountainous region. It is in the south, near the Jordanian border and not too far from the Golan. But there is a big Arab city, Dara, that sits between the Jabal Druze and the Golan Heights, which makes it impractical for Israel to move its troops in and protect them directly. So it used bombing, and Israel stepped in to defend the Druze. 

Israel has, it's important to know that they have 150,000 Druze who've served loyal in the military and are an important lobbying group that's not to be sneezed at. I know many Israeli Druze and they were frantic to get Netanyahu to step in. Now, Netanyahu was much bigger fish to fry than just the Druze. He has got a strategic vision, which is Israel being the predominant power.  And we've got to say that Israel has established not only complete air power over Lebanon, but now over Syria, over Iraq, and today, Iran as well. It doesn't want a strong Damascus, a Damascus that's armed by Turkey, that has a real army, that spreads its power over the border. So, Netanyahu said it very early on, we're not going to allow Damascus to deploy its troops South of Damascus City, not going to allow Shara to deploy his troops. 

The first day that Assad fell, Israel bombed Syria 400 times, destroying its entire navy, every missile depot, any airplane that was still existent. It erased everything it could find of the old Syrian army so that Shara would not have anything. And it's continued to bomb various airfields that Turkey is trying to resurrect, because it's very worried that Turkey will send its planes down there, build up the military, and that they'll have Turkey on Israel's border. That's what Netanyahu says. They said they're not going to do it, over our dead body. Of course, America doesn't like that, but that's the situation with the Jabal-Druze and Israel's entrance into this war. 

 

Aaron Maté: So, Israel claims to be fighting the sectarian oppression, the sectarian atrocities backed by the government, but it seems to me actually that they want to foment sectarianism in Syria. I mean, they were supporting the insurgency that was sectarian. I was reminded of a quote from way back, in 2013, by an Israeli official named Alon Pinkas. He's the former Israeli Consul General in New York and he said this about Syria, back in 2014. He said: “This is a playoff situation in which you need both teams to lose, but at least you don't want one to win – we'll settle for a tie. Let them both bleed, hemorrhage to death: that's the strategic thinking here. As long as this lingers, there's no real threat from Syria.” (Israel Backs Limited Strike Against Syria. September 5, 2013.)

So what he was basically saying back then was, as long as Syria is divided, as all sides are fighting each other, then Israel is dominant. And my question to you is, do you think that is still basically Israel strategy? 

 

Joshua Landis: Israel wants a weak and divided Syria, one that cannot present any challenge to Israel whatsoever on the Golan or anywhere else. In that sense, sweeping in and being a defender, having this human rights position and having the Druze actually want the Israelis to come and defend them fits perfectly into this larger strategic vision of a broken Syria that can't get back on its feet. 

 

Aaron Maté: And I don't want to minimize the atrocities the Druze have suffered. So talk to us a bit about what you know happened. For example, there seems to be a documented massacre that occurred at a Druze hospital in Syria.

 

Joshua Landis: Yes. The National Hospital in Suwayda. It was taken over by regime forces; they shot doctors, nurses and patients. They threw people off the roof. They were jihadists who went in there to wreak vengeance on the Druze. We've got to say that this came on the heels, already in May, there had been a dustup between the Druze and the Central State, because the Druzes had refused to make these concessions to the Central States. So, Shara, who wants to spread his military control over the country, is looking for ways. What happened in May was that this tape came out, a recording of a Druze Sheik – theoretically, the Druze denied it, said it was fake – of the Sheik saying something bad about Muhammad, the Prophet and they said, this is unacceptable. Students began to attack Druze students in dormitories in Hama. There were demonstrations in the street and very quickly it escalated into a situation where the Druze were being attacked from one end of Syria to the other, and particularly in two towns, Jaramana and Sahnaya, on the outskirts of Damascus towards the Jabal Druze. Many jihadist types and irregulars poured in, as well as regime troops, in order to attack the Druze, and Israel came into their defense, which of course, caused many Syrians to say, these are traitors, they're siding with Israel, look what they're doing in Gaza, this is terrible, and we've got to kill these Druze. So that was the background, and it was festering. 

A local story happened just on July 13, in which Bedouin, who make up 3% of the city of Suwayda, the capital city in the Jabal Druze, kidnapped a Druze merchant. And then it was tit for tat. It exploded. Over 10 people were killed. But the regime Shara said, only the central police and our security soldiers can bring calm to the Jabal Druze, we're sending them in. And so they attacked. And many people felt that the Bedouin situation was really a pretext to allow the regime to try to impose its will over the Jabal Druze. And this turned into a major conflagration because the Jews resisted. Regime elements came into the city, took over this national hospital, killed everybody in it, dozens of people. We don't know how many, but you look at pictures of body bags and there are probably 50 or 60. 

The videos are really horrendous. I published one of the videos very early on and my X account was inundated with regime supporters saying, This is fake news. These are not real things. They've either been doctored or the Druze were killing themselves because [   ], one of their leaders there. They've tried to demonize him and said that he's evil and he's shooting all these Druze because they really want to be part, they give up their guns to the government. 

It was very hard to tell what the truth was in those first moments, but there are major narrative campaigns going on in social media to defend the government, to defend the Druze, this sort of thing. But a lot of Druze have been killed. We don't have a sense so far, but it's probably going to approach a thousand. Whole families have been mowed down in their houses and so forth. Now, a bunch of Bedouins got killed and the Druze were very brutal to the regime troops that they later captured. And there were executions on both sides. And I'm not saying that – but this is the way that the government has been treating minorities. 

 

Aaron Maté: Yes. Well, that's what I was going to ask you about. So this follows the documented sectarian killings against the Alawites. And the death toll there is unknown, but it's believed to be very, very high. And that was also by forces linked to the government. Talk about what happened there and what a recent Reuters investigation newly confirmed. 

 

Joshua Landis: Right. Well, about 2,000 Alawites were killed. The government is claiming that – it came out with a report just the other day and said it was about 1,465, just under 1.5. But it's probably closer to 2,000. The government has closed down a lot of its bureaus for registering deaths along the coast. I know that because my father-in-law, an Alawite, died recently, and the family is still unable to record his death because all the offices are saying come back later, we're closed on this, you can't register the deaths. So, there's a lot of sleights of hand going on here, but 2,000 Alawites were killed on the coast, roughly. And this started with an attack on regime soldiers by some Alawites, and about 16, 17 Alawite soldiers were killed in one incidence, and it spread to two other places. 

The Alawites claim this is because we're being terribly mistreated, and this little convoy of troops was coming to a village to drag people out, claiming that they are regime remainders, and that they were coming to drag them off for transitional justice. The trouble is transitional justice is dragging people off and shooting them. There haven't been court trials. It's unclear. Many innocent people have been killed, people have never served in the military, houses have been robbed. So, the Alawites were beginning to feel that this regime is just going to kick us to the curb and mistreat us. 

So, it's hard to tell. The regime said this is a big conspiracy with Iran to bring back the Assad regime. The Alawite said, No, this is completely false. This is a self-defense thing. But the point is, once it began, the regime called for a general mobilization. Tens of thousands of militia members and militias began to swoop down onto the coast in long, that evening, in long, big lines of trucks and everything else. And many of them put hate in their hearts. They had their jihadist principles of we're going to kill all the Alawites. who are unbelievers, calling them pigs, making them bark like dogs. And we got this outpouring of videos, of whole families being lined up and just shot against walls, being made to bark like dogs and being shot. So, some villages, over 200 people were killed and then just laying all over the village. So, it was very brutal. Five of my wife's cousins had their houses broken into. People asked them, “Are you Alawite?” And then they proceeded to steal everything in the house, their car keys. One of their sons, Haidar, who grew up with my son, was dragged to – he never served in the military. He was an only son. You don't have to serve in the military if you're only son, he's the breadwinner for the family because a father had died of a heart attack and the mother didn't work – and he was dragged out to the step and just shot summarily. And this happened in family after family, up and down the coast. And so, it just put terror into the whole minority, and they'd begun to flood out of the country. 

As a result, the statistics from the U.N. show that about 100,000 Syrian refugees in Lebanon have returned to Syria since the fall of the regime, the Assad regime, mostly Sunnis. But 100,00 have fled into Lebanon since the fall of the regime, mostly minorities and mostly Alawites who are looking for safety. So, the shoe is on the other foot, and the regime is increasingly using force and a good dollop of terror in order to try to subjugate the minorities who've been recalcitrant. And they're a problem, but they don't feel that there's any protection for them. They don't have any buy-in, and they don't trust this ex-al-Qaeda guy, who has a very low regard for these minorities as unbelievers and so forth. The language that's used by officials is a very religious language and it really marks them out for persecution.

 

Aaron Maté: Well, so on that note, how did the government respond recently when there was a suicide bombing in Damascus at a church? 

 

Joshua Landis: Well, the Christian church. Well over 20 people were killed, a bunch were wounded. The priests and so forth said, “We didn't get a visit from the president”. So, the president did finally call them, the minister, the Christian minister, the woman minister, did immediately go there and in the subsequent days, some other ministers went. But this is after Christians began to complain that they felt like they weren't treated the same as other people and that the president didn't really want to address the issue properly. So, the Christians feel that the government is begrudgingly recognizing their pain but not doing it in a serious way. And so, all the minorities are feeling like they're being kicked to the curb. And it must be said that the minorities were spoiled by the French during the first half of the last century. They were overrepresented in the military. Bashar al-Assad and his father were Alawites, and they privileged minorities because they needed minority support. So, many Sunnis feel like the West has supported this, has put up with this, and they've been mistreated for a century, and that the minorities are always spoiled. Therefore, they're getting their comeuppance. 

 

Aaron Maté: Well, but the minorities were also protected from sectarian atrocities and that's why some of us just, I'm speaking for myself here, we're opposed to regime change on top of the fact that I don't think we have the right to flood a country with weapons and fuel and arms and all kinds of dominant insurgency. It's also a disaster for groups like the ones that are being attacked now. And I think we're seeing an ongoing reminder of that with all these atrocities. That chant that was attributed to some of the early protests, “Christians to Beirut, Alawites to the grave,” the protests against Assad, I mean, that's proved to be prophetic. They are sending Alawites now to the graves. So, whether you want to call that previously Alawites being spoiled or just being maybe protected from sectarian murder. 

 

Joshua Landis: Well, you didn't have to go very far. When al-Qaeda takes over, even an ex-al-Qaeda guy who's trying to fly right, and he's surrounded by all these al-Qaeda guys, that's what's going to happen. We saw it in Iraq. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that minorities are going to get persecuted. And they are being persecuted, and they're being robbed, they're having their houses taken over. Yes, America was concerned about Iran. They wanted Iran out of Syria. They wanted Iran to stop funding Hezbollah. That was the primary concern of America: if having al-Qaeda take over, that was the price and, in a sense, that's what's happened. 

 

Aaron Maté: That's why Jake Sullivan said in that infamous email to Hillary Clinton, “Al-Qaeda is on our side in Syria.” 

Final question for you. All this is happening at an awkward time for the Trump administration, which is moving to lift sanctions on Syria, the sanctions that helped achieve regime change by basically crippling the country and preventing reconstruction. But just as Trump is asking for these sanctions to be lifted, we're still seeing all these sectarian atrocities. So, talk to us a bit about the debate that's playing out right now in Washington over whether or not to lift these sanctions, which, in my opinion, again, should never have been imposed in the first place. We don't have the right to destroy another economy to regime change their government. But I think they're sadistic and should be removed. But now there's a problem because of all these sectarian murders that keep happening. 

 

Joshua Landis: Right. The first article I wrote after the fall of Assad was about the time to lift the sanctions. Sanctions are a brutal force that hurt the most vulnerable, no doubt about it. But the United States, and understandably, Trump made his deal with the Saudis and the Turks when he was visiting Saudi Arabia, and he said, I'm going to lift all sanctions. He embraced, Shara. He said, yes, he's a tough guy and he's done tough things, but sometimes you need a tough leader to rule a country. He said, Make Syria great again. We're not going to be in the business of regime change anymore. He really slammed George Bush, the son, and said all that regime change stuff was a big waste of time and what have we gotten out of it? Nothing. Make America great again, let the Syrians be Syrians. 

That was translated then into policy by our ambassador to Turkey and special envoy to Syria, Ambassador Barak, who said, “We're lifting everything. We're not demanding anything in exchange.” He did say we want to see Syria fight ISIS, get rid of all the Palestinian groups, join the Abraham Accords, get rid of chemical weapons, and there were a few other little items on there. But mostly, he didn't say anything about human rights. He didn't say anything about minorities. He didn't say anything about democracy because America's finished with democracy promotion in the Middle East. And in a sense, America threw out the baby with the bathwater. Yes, these are unreasonable expectations, but you want to give some guidance. And this might not have happened if the United States had been a little bit firmer, saying, You can't do this, you can't use force to just crush the minorities. There's got to be some kind of representation and you can work that out. They're beginning to say it. There's just a movement in Congress to lift the Caesar sanctions. There are tons of sanctions on Syria. The president can lift many of them because they're presidential sanctions. But the major package, the Caesar sanctions, was put on by Congress. And those are the ones that give secondary sanctions. So, if companies go in and help rebuild Syria, they can be sanctioned. Most Republicans voted against lifting those, even though all the Syrian opposition who are in favor of the Shara regime said, We've got to lift them, we're against Assad, now we're good. And Republicans have been loath to do that. I think that's because a lot of their minority constituents have been screaming bloody murder and saying, you've got to hold this regime to account. So, they haven't all been lifted. They've been changed to a certain degree. It's still unclear what they mean. But they aren't completely gone. 

 

Aaron Maté: It's such a mess and this is what happens when you try to regime change a country: you end up creating a monster that is really very hard to roll back. The sanctions regime and now the fact that it's ruled by an offshoot of al-Qaeda. I'll just say, on the issue of chemical weapons, as someone who's been skeptical of these chemical weapons allegations, especially after they destroyed their stockpile in 2013-2014 under a deal with the OPCW, the fact that they haven't been able to find a trace of Assad's supposed chemical weapons stockpile in the more than seven months since he was ousted, I find that very interesting. And to me, it bolsters the skepticism that I've had of those allegations, which were also bolstered by things like the OPCW whistleblowers and leaked documents. 

 

Joshua Landis: Well, let me add, on your point about regime change being really just a terrible thing to do, most of these countries in the Middle East were established after World War I at the Paris Peace Conference: Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, so forth. They're very young. Various groups of people who didn't necessarily want to live together were stuck together in these newly drawn nation-states and told to get along. It's been very difficult. Almost all of the Middle Eastern countries have had a dictatorship almost from the beginning because they don't get along and they're fighting over who's going to be on top and so forth. 

So, there's been a lot of coercion in order to keep people from fighting each other, when you're trying to do state building, that's going to create a common citizenship and a political community where people will trust each other enough to vote on a constitution and follow the laws. That's what's basically required for democracies. You've got to have some common game rules that everybody buys into. That isn't present in most Middle Eastern countries, which is why there remain either kings or dictators. And it's very difficult to keep people from breaking into civil war. 

So, when America goes into these new countries that are still trying to reshape their citizenry and kick over the state, which was weak to begin with, maybe a little bit muscle-bound with military dictatorship, but unable to tax their people, unable to really get people to buy in, it turns into civil war. And that's what happened in Iraq. That's what happened in Libya. That's what happened in Afghanistan. That's going to happen in Iran if we try to overturn the regime there. And it's certainly what happened to Syria. And you get very long and bloody civil wars with tons of ethnic cleansing. It's not a good thing. And people need to just put regime change out of their minds because Western regime change isn't going to produce democracy. It's going to produce civil war in societies that are trying to find a way to live together and build a common political community. 

 

Aaron Maté: Joshua Landis, Sandra Mackey Chair and Professor of Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma. Thanks so much for joining us. 

 

Joshua Landis: Always a pleasure, Aaron. Love your show.

 

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Semafor Editor Ben Smith on Epstein Saga; How do MAGA Supporters Really Feel About Trump's Foreign Policy? Eddington Movie Review: Reflections on 2020
System Update #490

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Michael Tracey: Good evening, everybody. I'm Michael Tracey, and Glenn is somewhere. So, this is where I triumphantly storm in and anger parts of the audience who would prefer not to have to see my face, which I have to say, on some level, I sympathize with. 

Tonight, an interesting show. We'll be joined by Ben Smith, who is the editor-in-chief of Semafor and a longtime political observer, journalist, editor. And we will probably, I think, provide you with a slightly counterintuitive for different perspective anyway, on the meaning of the whole Epstein saga that continues to engulf American politics and media, seemingly. 

We'll also bring in somebody who works on this very show, and who you often don't see on camera, she stays behind the cameras but today, we're going to pry her out because Meagan O'Rourke, who I often do interviews with, and she's a producer on the show, I'm sure should be a fan favorite anyway. We're going to do actually a review of a new movie. This is a little out of left field based on typical System Update content, but there's a new movie that I happened to see last night, partly at the adamant urging of Meagan, called Eddington. And I think it's an incredible movie and an incredible window into a lot that's going on politically and culturally. So we're going to a movie review tonight. 

And we are also going to show some footage that she and I collected, actually back on the Fourth of July, earlier this month, that has been available on Locals for you subscribers for several weeks. But what we wanted to do was go to like an area that is sort of ground zero for salt of the earth, Joe six-pack style supporters of Trump voters and ask them about his foreign policy record thus far, particularly the bombing of Iran, which may seem like eons ago at this point, but it was only last month, and the full ramifications have not really been settled. 

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Michael Tracey and Meagan O'Rourke

Okay, so we're going to go a little bit off the beaten path tonight because I know my mind has been largely occupied by this movie that I saw last night. And if it was just a well-crafted drama, or if there were just some sterling acting performances that were put in, I'm not sure that I would necessarily have been compelled to discuss it on System Update. 

However, there's like an interesting synergy going on in the universe where we have this Epstein story that keeps embroiling the American political and media worlds with some new developments on that score even just this afternoon and we have the opening of this movie which really gets to the beating heart in a very unparalleled way for like a cinematic experience of what drives the contemporary kind of like internet addled American political psyche. 

It's called “Eddington.” I guess we'll try to steer away from spoilers. We'll play the trailer for those who are not familiar. 

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