Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
What Real “Democracy Interference" Looks Like: US in Pakistan, Niger, & Ukraine, w/ Darren Beattie. Plus: Twitter Compelled to Hand Over Trump Records
Video Transcript
August 11, 2023
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Note: This is Part 1 of 2 due to the length of the episode

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Good evening. It's Wednesday, August 9.  Welcome to a new episode of System Update, our live nightly show that airs every Monday through Friday, at 7 p.m. Eastern, exclusively here on Rumble, the free speech alternative to YouTube.

Tonight. Starting in 2016, we were subjected to incessant cries from American political and media elites about the evils of Russian interference in our sacred democracy. By interference, they meant the purchase of some Facebook ads, some Twitter bots, and an alleged hacking operation aimed at John Podesta and the DNC, which resulted in the disclosure of true and revealing information about leading presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. These same people have never really stopped petulantly complaining about Russian interference. It is at least a non-trivial factor – if not the major factor – and why so many self-identified liberal Democrats support the U.S. proxy war against Ukraine as vengeance against the country they blame for Hillary's defeat in Trump's victory in 2016. There were always so many pitiful aspects to this petulance, chief among them the fact that the U.S. not only has long a long history of “interfering in the internal affairs of most other countries using means far more aggressive and disruptive than some social media bots but doing exactly that against Russia itself. 

Indeed, the U.S. State Department openly funded anti-Putin opposition groups under Hillary Clinton's reign at the State Department during the Obama administration and while many people will gradually acknowledge – if they're forced to do that – the CIA has in the distant past engaged in some fairly nasty coups and other destabilization campaigns, they do so only to imply that all of that unpleasant business is a thing of the past back in the 1950s and 1960s, before we learned our lesson about such things. The absurdity of these claims has been yet again proven by two events just this week. The Intercept today, in a great piece of reporting from two of my colleagues at The Intercept, of whom I've always been proud, Ryan Grim and Murtaza Hussain, divulged a secret State Department cable proving what U.S. officials have long publicly denied, namely, that the U.S. security state pressured their counterparts in Pakistani intelligence and military to get rid of the nation's most popular politician, Imran Khan, elected in 2018, to be his nation's prime minister. 

The U.S. was enraged, in 2022, that Prime Minister Khan declared Pakistan's neutrality in the war in Ukraine and was even visiting Russia shortly before the invasion for a long-planned visit. As they so often do – but these days, not always – U.S. officials got their wish in Pakistan. Khan, on April 20, 2022, less than a month after the State Department meeting that this document revealed demanding his removal – he was removed – from power by virtue of a middle-of-the-night no-confidence vote. And then he was charged and convicted on dubious corruption charges, resulting in a prison term of three years and his being banned from running again. Sounds familiar? 

Meanwhile, Victoria Nuland was recently promoted by the Biden administration to the lofty new position of deputy Secretary of State – congratulations to Victoria Nuland for being promoted yet again – visited the Western African country of Niger this week. This time the U.S. was not on the side of a coup, but rather feigning support for democracy, Nuland demanded – and she demanded – that Niger reinstate the overthrown president, who has long been viewed by the U.S. as an ally and partner. And she threatened that country with all sorts of reprisals if they failed to obey her orders about who should run that country. U.S. allies and U.S. trained coalitions in Africa threatened to invade Nigeria, which would mean a full-scale civil and regional war, especially since its neighbors, who also recently underwent coups, including Mali and Burkina Faso, have vowed to fight for the new military government in Niger in the event that the U.S. allies in Africa invaded and tried to reinstate the old government Victoria Nuland is demanding to be reinstated. 

Even American allies, longstanding U.S. trading partners in Niger, were extremely defiant when Nuland visited, refusing to let her even meet with the country's new military leaders and making clear that their sovereignty is not for sale. Nuland, of course, the same person who, in 2014, as part of the Obama State Department, got caught in a secret tape recording plotting with the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine over who should be installed as that nation's president once the U.S. succeeded in financing the removal of Ukraine's democratically elected president whom they had judged to be too close to Moscow. Nuland is also the same person who was Dick Cheney's chief advisor in 2002-2003 and helped him advocate and plan the invasion of Iraq. 

That Nuland is constantly promoted by presidents of both parties, except when Donald Trump was in office when she disappears, illustrates how much of our premium is placed in Washington and its national security state on changing other nations' governments and interfering in their internal politics with a lot more than some Twitter bots. We'll examine these new powerful revelations about both Pakistan and Niger. 

We'll speak with former Trump speechwriter and current investigative journalist Darren Beattie of Revolver News, who just recently interviewed Imran Khan about the U.S. role in his removal from power and his subsequent criminal conviction. 

It's worth remembering that. in 2016, Donald Trump explicitly campaigned on ending exactly these sorts of foreign interference operations, and he won the Republican nomination and then the general election. And that vow was a major reason the U.S. security state and its neocon supporters despised Trump and vowed to destroy his presidency. It is worth taking these opportunities to reflect on what real interference in other countries' democracies actually looks like it was doing and for what reasons. 

Then: newly discovered documents reveal that prosecutors working for special counsel Jack Smith issued a subpoena to Twitter, in 2022, demanding that the social media company turned over Donald Trump's private communications undertaken on that platform. Twitter resisted the subpoena to the point that it got fined by the judge for doing so. And this is the amazing part: not only was Twitter ordered by a federal court to turn over Trump's communications, but they were also banned by the court order at the request of Smith's prosecutorial team to even let Trump know of the existence of the subpoena that would have allowed Trump the opportunity to argue that the attempt to obtain his private communications was either legally invalid or unconstitutional. We'll examine this common yet repressive practice of the U.S. security state using powers enacted during the Patriot Act and after 9/11 to obtain Americans' private communications without their even knowing about it, and how that practice found expression in this particular criminal investigation to try to render Trump a felon and ultimately ineligible to be elected president. 

As a reminder, we are encouraging viewers of System Update to download the Rumble app, which is very high quality, I think much better than the browser, and that will enable you to follow our show, follow other shows, and if you turn on applications, it will immediately notify you the minute we go live on air so that you don't have to wait around in the very unlikely event that we're a few minutes late. The notification will just be immediately sent to your phone or to your email, whatever you tell it to do. That will help this show. It will help Rumble, which we think is an important free speech platform and will help other shows on this platform grow as well.

As another reminder, System Update is available in podcast form. You can follow us on Spotify, Apple and all other major podcasting platforms. If you rate and review the program, it will help us spread the visibility of the show.

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update, starting right now. 

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Answering Your Questions About Tariffs

Many of you have been asking about the impact of Trump's tariffs, and Glenn addressed how we are covering the issue during our mail bag segment yesterday. As always, we are grateful for your thought-provoking questions! Thank you, and keep the questions coming!

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Listen to this Article: Reflecting New U.S. Control of TikTok's Censorship, Our Report Criticizing Zelensky Was Deleted

For years, U.S. officials and their media allies accused Russia, China and Iran of tyranny for demanding censorship as a condition for Big Tech access. Now, the U.S. is doing the same to TikTok. Listen below.

Listen to this Article: Reflecting New U.S. Control of TikTok's Censorship, Our Report Criticizing Zelensky Was Deleted
LOCALS MAILBAG: Send in your questions for Glenn!

Any questions that you’ve posted either here today or in our feed across the week are considered!

September 10, 2025

RE: Charlie Kirk ... I appreciated Glenn's comments tonight. It reminded me of the Clint Eastwood quote from Unforgiven: "Its a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away everything he's got and everything he's ever gonna have."
That thing "he's gonna have" might be a change of mind about something you disagreed with him about. I just thought it was important that Glenn emphasized the point that we are all much more than our opinion about any one particular issue and even our opinion on that issue will often change over time.

September 10, 2025

Enjoyed your show on Charlie Kirk, whose death has affected me more than I had anticipated. Probably because he was younger than my own son, and he has two young children (and I was already sad about the Ukrainian lady being stabbed). Anyway, here's an interesting post from a teacher on Substack about Kirk:
https://substack.com/profile/8962438-internalmedicinedoc/note/c-154594339

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Trump and Rubio Apply Panama Regime Change Playbook to Venezuela; Michael Tracey is Kicked-Out of Epstein Press Conference
System Update #508

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

 

 The Trump administration proudly announced yesterday that it blew up a small speedboat out of the water near Venezuela. It claimed that – without presenting even a shred of evidence – that the boat carried 11 members of the Tren de Aragua gang, and that the boat was filled with drugs. Secretary of State Marco Rubio – whose lifelong dream has been engineering coups and regime changes in Latin American countries like Venezuela and Cuba – claimed at first that the boat was headed toward the nearby island nation of Trinidad. But after President Trump claimed that the boat was actually headed to the United States, where it intended to drop all sorts of drugs into the country, Secretary of State Rubio changed his story to align with Trump's and claimed that the boat was, in fact, headed to the United States. 

There are numerous vital issues and questions here. First, have Trump supporters not learned the lesson yet that when the U.S. Government makes assertions and claims to justify its violence, that evidence ought to be required before simply assuming that political leaders are telling the truth. Second, what is the basis, the legal or Constitutional basis, that permits Donald Trump to simply order boats in international waters to be bombed with U.S. helicopters or drones instead of, for example, interdicting the boat, if you believe there are drugs on it, to actually prove that the people are guilty before just evaporating them off the planet? And then third, and perhaps most important: is all of this – as it seems – merely a prelude to yet another U.S. regime change war, this time, one aimed at the government of oil-rich Venezuela? We'll examine all of these events and implications, including the very glaring parallels between what is being done now to what the Bush 41 administration did in 1989 when invading Panama in order to oppose its one-time ally, President Manuel Noriega, based on exactly the same claims the Trump administration is now making about Venezuela. For a political movement that claims to hate Bush/neocon foreign policy, many Trump supporters and Trump officials sure do find ways to support the wars that constitute the essence of this ideology they claim to hate. 

Then, the independent journalist and friend of the show, Michael Tracey, was physically removed from a press conference in Washington D.C. yesterday, one to which he was invited, that was convened by the so-called survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and their lawyer. Michael's apparent crime was that he did what a journalist should be doing. He asked a question that undercut the narrative of the press event and documented the lies of one of the key Epstein accusers, lies that the Epstein accuser herself admits to having told. All of this is part of Michael's now months-long journalistic crusade to debunk large parts of the Epstein melodrama – efforts that include claims he's made, with which I have sometimes disagreed, but it's undeniable that the work he's doing is journalistically valuable in every instance: we always need questioning and critical scrutiny of mob justice or emoting-driven consensus to ask whether there's really evidence to support all of the claims. And that's what Michael has been doing, and he's basically been standing alone while doing it, and he'll be here to discuss yesterday’s expulsion from this press conference as well as the broader implications of the work he's been trying to do. 

 

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Minnesota Shooting Exploited to Impose AI Mass Surveillance; Taylor Lorenz on Dark Money Group Paying Dem Influencers, and the Online Safety Act
System Update #507

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

 

The ramifications of yesterday's Minneapolis school shooting – and the exploitations of it – continue to grow. On last night's program, we reviewed the transparently opportunistic efforts by people across the political spectrum to immediately proclaim that they knew exactly what caused this murderer to shoot people. As it turned out, the murderer was motivated by whatever party or ideology, religion, or social belief that they hate most. Always a huge coincidence and a great gift for those who claim that. 

There's an even more common and actually far more sinister manner of exploiting such shootings: namely, by immediately playing on people's anger and fear to tell them that they must submit to greater and greater forms of mass surveillance and other authoritarian powers to avoid such events in the future. As they did after the 9/11 attack, which ushered in the full-scale online surveillance system under which we all live, Fox News is back to push a comprehensive Israel-developed AI mass surveillance program in the name of stopping violent events in the future. We'll tell you all about it. 

 Then, we have a very special surprise guest for tonight. She is Taylor Lorenz, who reported for years for The New York Times and The Washington Post on internet culture, trends in online discourse, and social media platforms. She's here in part to talk about her new story that appeared in WIRED Magazine today that details a dark money program that secretly shovels money to pro-Democratic Party podcasters and content creators, including ones with large audiences, and yet they are prohibited from disclosing even to their viewership that they're being paid in this way. We'll talk about this program and its implications. And while she's here, we'll also discuss her reporting on, and warnings about new online censorship schemes that masquerade as child protection laws, namely, by requiring users to submit proof of their identity to access various sites, all in the name of protecting children, but in the process destroying the key value of online anonymity. We'll talk to her about several other related issues as well. 


 

There've been a lot of revelations over the last 25 years, since the 9/11 attack, of all sorts of secretive programs that were implemented in the dark that many people I think correctly view as un-American in the sense that they run a foul and constitute a direct assault on the rights, protections and guarantees that we all think define what it means to be an American. And a lot of that happened. In fact, much of it, one could say most of it, happened because of the fears and emotions that were generated quite predictably by the 9/11 attack in 2001 and also the anthrax attack, which followed along just about a month later, six weeks later. We've done an entire show on it because of its importance in escalating the fear level in the United States in the wake of 9/11, even though it's extremely mysterious – the whole thing, how it happened, how it was resolved. But the point is that the fear levels increased, the anger increased, the sadness over the victims increased and into that breach, into that highly emotional state, stepped both the government and their partners in the media, which essentially included all major media outlets at the time, to tell people they essentially have to give up their rights if they want to be safe from future terrorist attacks. 

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Glenn Takes Your Questions on the Minneapolis School Shooting, MTG & Thomas Massie VS AIPAC, and More
System Update #506

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

 

We are going to devote the show tonight to more questions that have come from our Locals members over the week. It continues to be some really interesting ones, raising all sorts of topics. 

We do have a question that we want to begin with that deals with what I think is the at least most discussed and talked about story of the day, if not the most important one, which is the school shooting that took place in a Catholic church in Minneapolis earlier today when a former student who attended that school went to the church, opened fire and shot 19 people, two of whom, young students between eight and ten, were killed. The other 17 were wounded, and amazingly, it’s expected that all of them are to survive. The carnage could have been much worse; the tragedy is manifest, however, and there is a lot of, as always, political commentary surrounding the mass shooting attempts to identify the ideology of the shooter in a way that is designed to promote a lot of people's political agenda. So, let's get to the first question.

 It is from @ZellFive, who's a member of our Locals community. He offers this question, but also a viewpoint that I think really ought to be considered by a lot more people. They write:

 

So, I'm really glad that this is one of the questions that we got today because this is a point I've been arguing for so long. So, let me just try to give you as many facts as I possibly can, facts that seem to be confirmed by law rather than just circulating on the internet. 

So, the suspected killer is somebody named Robin Westman, who is 23 years old. After they shot 19 people inside this church, killing two young children, they then committed suicide with a weapon. The person's birth name is Robert Westman, and around 16 or 17 years old, he decided that he identified as a woman, went to court, changed the legal name from Robert to Robin, and began identifying as a trans woman, so that obviously is going to provoke a lot of commentary, and there's been a lot of commentary provoked around that. We will definitely get to that. 

 

The suspected killer also left a very lengthy manifesto, a written manifesto which they filmed and uploaded on a video to YouTube, along with showing a huge arsenal of guns, including rifles and pistols and some automatic weapons. I believe various automatic rifles as well. I don't think they used any of those weapons at school. I believe they just used a rifle and a pistol, if I'm not mistaken. But we'll see about that. 

It was essentially a manifesto both in written terms, but then they also wrote various slogans on each of these weapons and various parts of the weapons. And we're going to go over a lot of what they put there because there's an obvious and instantaneous attempt, as there always is, to instantly exploit any of these shootings before the corpses are even removed from the ground. And I mean that literally. The effort already begins to inject partisan agenda, partisan ideology, ideological agendas to immediately try to depict the shooter as being representative of whatever faction the person offering this theory most hates or to claim that they're motivated by or an adherent of whatever ideology the person offering the theory most hates. And it happens in every single case. 

Oftentimes, there's an immediate attempt to squeeze some unrelated or perhaps even related agenda in and out of it instantly. Liberals almost always insist that whenever there's a mass shooting, it proves the need for a greater gun control without bothering to demonstrate whether the gun control they favor would have actually stopped the person from acquiring these weapons in the first place, whether they were legally acquired, whether they could have been legally acquired, even with gun control measures, it doesn't matter, instantaneously exploiting the emotions surrounding a shooting like this to try to increase support for gun control. Whereas people on the right often do the opposite. 

On the right, they typically will argue that more guns would have enabled somebody to neutralize the shooter more rapidly, that perhaps churches and schools need greater security. We need more police. So, there's that kind of an almost automatic and reflexive exploitation again, almost before anything is known, but there is an even more pernicious attempt to instantly declare that everyone knows the motives of the shooter, that they know the political outlook and perspective of the shooter. They know their partisan ideology and their ideological beliefs in an attempt to demonize whatever group a person hates most. 

This is unbelievably ignorant, deceitful and ill-advised for so many reasons. The first of which is that every single political action, every single ideological movement, produces evil mass shooters. For every far-leftist mass shooter that you want to show or white supremacist mass shooters that you want to show, you can show people who have murdered in defense of all kinds of causes. And so even if you can pinpoint the ideology of the shooter on the same day the shooting happened, I mean, you can develop a clear, reliable, concise and specific understanding of the shooter that you never even heard of until four hours ago, but you're so insightful, your investigative skills are so profound, that you're able to discern exactly what the motive of this person was in doing something so intrinsically insane and evil as shooting up a church filled with young school children. 

The idea that anyone can do that is preposterous on its face. I mean, the police always say, because they're actual investigators, actual law enforcement officers who want to collect evidence that stands up for public scrutiny and also in court, “We don't know yet what the motive is; we're collecting clues.” But almost nobody on Twitter or social media or in the commentariat is willing to say that. Everybody insists immediately, no, the killer was motivated by the other party, the opposite party of the one I'm a member of, or this ideology that's not mine, or in this religion that is the one I like the most to demonize. It's just so transparent and so blatant what is being done here. And yet it's so prevalent. 

I mean, you could go on to social media and principally the social media platform where the most journalists and political pundits, influencers and the like congregate, which is X, and I could show you probably 40 different theories offered definitively with an authoritative voice. Not like, hey, this might be possibly the case, but saying clearly, we know that the killer was motivated by this particular ideology, this particular set of beliefs. And I'm not talking about random X users, I'm talking about people with significant platforms, people who are well-known. 

I could probably show you 40 different theories like that, where every person is purporting to know definitively exactly what the motive of the shooter was and by huge coincidence they all have latched on to whatever ideology or faction or motive most serves their own political worldview to demonize the people with whom they most disagree, or whatever ideology or group of people they most hate. That's always what is done. And I guess in some cases, if a shooter leaves a particularly clear and coherent manifesto, and we have had those sometimes, we have had Anders Breivik in Norway, who made it very clear that his motive was hatred for Muslim immigrants who shot up a summer camp in Norway. We had the Christchurch, New Zealand killer who attacked two mosques and mass murdered dozens of Muslims at a mosque and made clear he was doing so because it was viewed that Islam is a danger. We had the mass shooter in a Buffalo supermarket, who made manifest their white supremacist views. We've had mass shooters who are motivated by hatred of Christianity, as happened in the Nashville shooter attack on a Christian school there, I mean, I could go on and on. 

As I said, every single political faction produces mass shooters, mass killers, evil, crazy people who use violence indiscriminately against innocents in advance of their beliefs. But most of the time, and you might even be able to say all of the times – I mean, maybe I don't like the phrase all of the times because you can conceive of exceptions, but close to all the time, most of the time, people who go and just randomly shoot at innocent people whom they don't know are above all else driven by mental illness and spiritual decay, not by political ideology or adherence to a political cause. That often is the pretext for what they're doing; that may be how they convince themselves that what they are doing is justified. But far more often than not, the principle overriding factor is the fact that the person is just mentally ill or spiritually broken, by which I mean just a completely nihilistic person who has given up on life and wants to just inflict suffering on other people because of the suffering that they feel or their suffering from delusions. 

And this isn't something I invented today. This is something I've long been saying. And I just want to make one more point, which is, even though there are sometimes manifestos that are extremely clear and say, “I am murdering people in a supermarket that is African-American because I hate Black people and I don't think they belong in the United States,” or “I believe that white people are the sole proper citizens of the United States and I want to murder and kill inspired by those other mass murderers” that I mentioned, even then, it may not be the case that the person's representation of what they're is the actual motive because it could be driven by a whole variety of other factors, including mental illness, or all kinds of other issues to be able to conclude in six hours, even with a crystal-clear manifesto that the person did it for reasons that you're ready to definitively assert are the reasons is so irresponsible. It's just so intellectually bankrupt. 

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