Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
From Waco to Today, Retracing the 30-Year Domestic War on Civil Liberties That Launched Gore Vidal's Political Transformation
Video Transcript
October 09, 2023
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Good evening. It's Friday, October 6. 

Tonight: One of the primary topics we cover on System Update is the abuse of the U.S. Security State and its vast powers – the CIA, NSA, FBI, DHS – for domestic political purposes. When the U.S.. Security State was created in the aftermath of World War Two, the central taboo was that it would never turn its powers inward. It was permitted to operate in total secrecy and use often lawless methods because it was intended to focus only on foreign enemies and to interfere in the internal affairs of foreign adversaries but was never to be weaponized in American politics or turned against the American people. 

There is now abundant evidence that leaves no doubt that this taboo simply no longer exists. Whistleblowers within these agencies who risked their liberty over the last 25 years to reveal the agency's secrets did so because they said they were so offended and horrified that the weapons of the security agencies were now being regularly turned on the domestic population that the CIA directly and aggressively interfered in and manipulated. Both the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections are beyond dispute. Both the Russiagate collusion conspiracy theory of 2016 and the 2020 lie that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation came directly from the bowels of the CIA and was fed to The New York Times and the Washington Post. Just last month, an appellate court ruled that the FBI and other agencies within the Biden administration committed one of the most egregious and systemic violations of the First Amendment in decades, if not ever, by systematically pressuring Big Tech platforms to censor the political speech of Americans that they dislike. That's just a small sample. The story shows grave and constant domestic repression by these intelligence agencies. 

It may sometimes seem that this is a fairly new development. After all, most people's adult political lives now are no longer shaped by the Cold War, but by the 9/11 attacks and the subsequent War on Terror in which the CIA Homeland Security and FBI largely came to focus not on the domestic population, but on foreign terrorist organizations. As a result, most of our controversies over the last 25 years involving the U.S. Security State before the Trump age were typically about programs justified in the name of fighting foreign enemies rather than domestic ones. Controversies over torture programs, CIA black sites, due process-free zones at Bagram and Guantanamo, mass warrantless spying, drones and regime change wars were all typically justified by the need to stop foreign threats. 

This was always deceit – pure propaganda. Most of the key War on Terror controversies ended up having significant implications for the domestic civil liberties of American citizens, if not being principally about them. Radical programs like the Patriot Act and the NSA's warrantless surveillance program had a far greater impact in eroding the core of the civil liberties of American citizens on American soil than they did foreign terrorist groups. But the framework for how we debated and understood those controversies and the justification offered by the U.S. government for them were always focused on foreign threats rather than domestic ones. 

The 20-year War on Terror, with its ostensible focus on foreign threats, has thus created the misleading perception that the U.S. Security State's domestic focus and interference in our domestic politics is a somewhat new development. For so many reasons, though, that is simply false. The decade prior to the 9/11 attacks in the War on Terror and the Clinton years of the 1990s were driven at least as much by a civil liberties assault on the domestic political rights of Americans as was true of the Trump era. But for al-Qaida and ISIS and the Russians, we were told back then that the greatest threat we faced was not foreign threats, but domestic ones, specifically anti-government extremism on our own soil that questions the legitimacy of the federal government. Over and over, the multiple sprawling arms of the U.S. Security State in the 1990s were used to target, surveil and repress what the U.S. government considered anti-government, anti-establishment extremism, just as is true of today – you can draw a straight line from those controversy in the 1990s to the ones today. 

For that reason, it's really impossible to understand the multiple ways that the U.S. government today is attacking core liberties at home without understanding the foundation that was laid for all of this in the 1990s. The alleged threat posed by so-called domestic anti-government extremists was aggressively exploited by the Clinton administration to demand a wide array of new and previously unthinkable powers designed to control police and suppress domestic dissent, including things like backdoor access to all Internet sites and encryption protections, and even chips on phones that would trace everything we say and did. All of this became quite visible with two violent attacks by U.S. federal law enforcement agencies in that decade: One against a family said to be white separatists in Idaho, in which the FBI conducted an 11-day siege at Ruby Ridge and then killed Randy Weaver's wife, son and dog, and then, the notorious warlike assault against the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas, under Janet Reno's Justice Department. A vicious and violent government domestic assault led to 76 members of that group, including 28 children, dead. 

There is no way to understand the Senate's grave and growing threat to the core of civil liberties and political dissent posed by the U.S. Security State without understanding the historical context in which this all emerged in the 1990s. It is the political transformation of Gore Vidal, one of the most celebrated liberal literary, cultural and political figures of the 20th century, who became an outspoken opponent of the U.S. Security State in the 1990s, and the liberal attempt to weaponize it against political enemies, that provides the perfect window to understand this crucial history. 

We're aware that, especially in today's Internet culture of immediate gratification, it's sometimes difficult to get people to focus on anything other than the fleeting news events of the last 12 hours. But we have seen repeatedly that our audience wants more than that, and some of our most watched shows have been the ones where we took the time to put events of today into their crucial historical and cultural context. So, regarding the current exploitation of the power of the U.S. Security State to limit and punish domestic dissent, a frequent topic of our program. putting it into its key historical context is what we're going to do tonight, and we think you will find it compelling. 

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update, starting right now.

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Trump Declares the War in Iran to Be His Own; Journalist Ken Klippenstein on Trump's War Plans, DC Dems, and More
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System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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We’ll also talk to the independent journalist Ken Klippenstein, who breaks many stories, genuinely breaking stories on his Substack, where he went after wisely deciding to quit the Intercept last year. He receives many leaks from sources inside the intelligence community – not the official and authorized leaks: those are for Barack Ravid at Axios – but he gets the unauthorized ones from mid-level or even low-level employees of the U.S. Government. 

Ken has a new story out tonight about war plans of Trump for Iran that were leaked to him, regarding the Israelis and the Americans' designs on Iran. We’ll discuss that as well as a variety of other issues concerning this brand-new war, various happenings in Washington, and more. 

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U.S. and Israel vs Iran: Repeating War on Iraq Scripts; Overwhelming Bipartisan Consensus for Israel's Wars
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With Israel, as always, demanding more. Now, they want the U.S. planes and bombs to destroy Iran's underground nuclear facilities for them. The former Israeli defense minister went on CNN just an hour ago and told President Trump in the U.S. that it's our obligation to fight this war with them. And for them, President Trump has repeatedly opened the possibility of even greater U.S. involvement in the war. 

There are so many aspects of this new conflict worth covering and dissecting –and we will do so throughout the week – but tonight we want to focus on the amazing ease the U.S. government has in convincing its population to support whatever new war is presented to it. Over four years ago, intense war propaganda from the U.S. political class and media persuaded Americans to want to fund and arm the war in Ukraine – a war that is still dragging on with no favorable end in sight – and overnight huge numbers of people in the United States have suddenly become convinced without having ever said so previously that war with Iran is some sort of moral imperative as well as a strategic necessity for the survival of American citizens of the United States. 

No matter how debunked, discredited and disgraced that Iraq war narrative has become, as long as one just waits 20 or 25 years, then, apparently, that same script just works like magic all over again. You just haul it out, fearmongering, and huge numbers of people respond by saying, "Yes, let's go to war, let' kill people." 

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If you're an American citizen as an adult, you have seen the United States repeatedly go to war. Anyone 18 or over has seen the United States involved in all sorts of wars and that's after the Iraq war, which is now 22 years ago. Essentially, if you're American, it means forever, for a long, long time, for many decades, that you are a citizen of a country that's always at war. 

After World War II, there was a very visible and clear pattern, which is that the U.S. government convinces its citizens, enough of them, to support the war at the beginning. They deluge them with war propaganda, which is extremely strong, primal, tribal and enough Americans initially support the war to let the U.S. government politically go and drop bombs or finance some other country to go drop bombs for it. Then, after six months, a year, or two years, or four years, polls show that Americans overwhelmingly oppose the war that they were convinced to support. Going back to the war in Vietnam, throughout the 1980s’ wars, the War on Terror in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Syria, in Libya, the financing of the war in Ukraine, Israel's destruction of Gaza, bombing Yemin and now this new war that the United States is becoming increasingly involved in, in lots of different ways and we're only on the fifth day.

You just see so many Americans on a dime the minute a new war is presented to them, with whatever pretext can be conjured, even if they're exactly the same pretext that most Americans lived through watching proved to be complete lies the last time it was used in 2003, even though it's exactly the same script, exactly the same pretext, coming from exactly the same people. You can get enough Americans to immediately stand up and start cheering for death and destruction and bombing. Not all, a very substantial minority oppose it, I think if the U.S. overtly gets even more involved in the war in Iran, obviously anything resembling ground troops entering Iran, but even perhaps prolonged bombing of Iran as well through U.S. jets and bombs, as President Trump has indicated and Israel has demanded, maybe some of that will erode, that support will erode. But all that's needed is enough support at the beginning of the war to let the government start it. And once the U.S. government enters the war, it doesn't matter anymore whether the people continue to support it; then it's just already done. All the normal arguments are assembled about why we can't stop, why we can't cut and run, why that would be appeasement, etc., etc. All the same scripts all the time, used over and over, and even though they get proven to be discredited, or unpersuasive, or full of lies, you just use the same ones each time. And that's how the United States stays as a country at war.

We've been hearing a lot of people saying, “Look, I'm happy that Israel is bombing Iran, as long as the U.S. has no involvement in the war, we don't enter it, we don't have to pay for it. As long as it's not our war, I'm fine with it.” But, of course, the entire Israeli military is funded by American taxpayers. Every time Israel has a new war, the weapons that it uses come from the United States, transferred to Israel. We pay for their wars, we arm their wars, we support diplomatically those wars and we use our military assets every single time and our intelligence apparatus to support and enable the war, as the United States is already doing. We already have multiple new U.S. military assets ordered to the region by President Trump. They're already active in protecting Israel from retaliation. President Trump openly said that he is considering the possibility of involving the U.S. even more directly in this war with Iran: "We're not involved in it. It's possible we could get involved. But we are not at this moment involved," the president said. (ABC News. June 15, 2025.)

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U.S. Involvement in Israel's Iran Attack; the View from Tehran: Iranian Professor on Reactions to Strikes; CATO Analysts on Dangers and War Escalations

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Today's most important news is obvious: Israel last night launched a major military assault on Iran, targeting residential buildings in Tehran, where military commanders and nuclear physicists live with their families, as well as bombing multiple nuclear facilities throughout the country. 

Triumphalist rhetoric flooded American and Israeli discourse almost immediately, until just a little bit ago, when a barrage of Iran's ballistic and hypersonic missiles began hitting Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and other major population centers. Escalation seems virtually inevitable at this point. The level of escalation – always the most dangerous question when a new war has started – is most certainly yet to be determined. 

Then there's the question of the role of the United States and President Trump in all of this. News reports from both the U.S. and Israeli media suggested this morning that Trump was working hand-in-hand with the Israelis to pretend that he was still optimistic about a diplomatic resolution with Tehran, but did so only as a ruse to convince the Iranians that Trump intended to restrain Israel and thus lure Iran into a false sense of security when, in fact, Trump was not only green-lighting the attack but actively working with the Israelis to launch it. President Trump's own statements today proudly boasting of the success of the attack, along with his own concrete actions such as ordering U.S. military assets into position to yet again defend Israel, strongly bolster those reports and clearly indicate a direct U.S. involvement in this war between Israel and Iran, a U.S. involvement that already exists and will almost certainly continue to grow over the next few days and perhaps few weeks and even months. 

We’ll speak to Professor Mohammad Marandi, who is in Tehran and has heard and witnessed a lot of what happened but also has some unique analysis from his role as an American Iranian scholar of foreign policy and to scholars Justin Logan and Jon Hoffman, from the Cato Institute, one of the very few think tanks in the United States, which has long counselled restraint and non-interventionism in U.S. foreign policy. 

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