Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Writing • Culture
Bipartisan House Vote Pushes Deep State TikTok Ban—Who Really Benefits? w/ Michael Tracey
Video Transcript
March 16, 2024
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Tonight: Whenever you've been covering events for as long as I have, it is genuinely very difficult to become truly shocked by things you see in Washington but watching what has been happening over the last week as virtually all bipartisan establishment in Washington has rapidly and even urgently united over a bill—a rather draconian bill—has actually shocked me, not only because of the speed and the mindlessness that has driven this unity in official Washington but also the widespread support outside of Washington it has generated, among numerous political factions that usually claim to be very skeptical and even adversarial to the very D.C. groups that are uniting in defense and support of this bill. Seemingly out of nowhere, overnight, the leaders of both political parties, with the sole exception of one Donald J. Trump, have decided that it is suddenly a major national priority, one of extreme urgency, to either force the extremely popular social media app TikTok to divest itself of its Chinese ownership within a very short amount of time—a corporate feat that is very difficult, if not impossible, to meet—or if they fail to do so, have American law require that Apple, Google, Amazon and all of their Big Tech megacorporations ban TikTok from operating in the United States. 

The law that is moving at breakneck speed through Congress—it was just passed by the House overwhelmingly and toward the desk of Joe Biden, who has vowed to sign it the minute it hits his desk—is not just about TikTok alone. Instead, invest awesome new powers in the hands of the president to ban a wide range of social media platforms and websites that can be said to be owned by or in service to any country deemed a foreign adversary by the United States. There are so many glaring questions that ought to be immediately apparent and concerning and yet, really, very few people seem to be answering them or asking them. 

To begin with, the push to ban TikTok has been lurking around Washington since at least 2020, in the Trump administration four years ago, when Trump used that threat to extract a series of concessions from TikTok about how they stored data on their American users, as well as their content moderation decisions. We've been reporting on this for a long time, including demonstrating how TikTok agreed to turn over control of American data to Oracle, and even turn over a lot of content moderation decisions to the U.S. Security State. 

Calls to ban TikTok have really gone nowhere for all these years until suddenly, in the last few months, they took on a matter of great immediacy, at least as its congressional advocates tell it. Why is that? What changed in the last few months that made what seemed to be a fringe and unlikely idea, that even TikTok believed was unlikely, suddenly transform into a barreling train that seems ready to crush and roll over anyone or anything that seeks to stand in its way to implementation? Isn't that a very important question to ask? There must be something that has changed in the past few months that has rendered this bill a kind of wish list that seems very remote into a virtual inevitability overnight. 

There's concrete reporting that sheds great light on that answer, reporting that is as disturbing as it is illuminating, then there is the fact that the call to ban TikTok originated with the U.S. Security State—the CIA, the FBI, the Pentagon—all of whom insisted that allowing its continuation in its current form is for some reason a grave threat to national security. But I seem to recall—don't you?—that so much of our politics over the past seven years, on both the populist right and the anti-establishment left, has been driven by grave concern over the attempt by the U.S. Security State to seize greater control over the flow of speech and information over the Internet. Remember the Twitter Files and the ensuing court rulings that the Biden administration gravely violated the First Amendment by having agencies like the CIA and the CDC coerce Big Tech platforms to censor dissent? Was I dreaming that? Where did all of that concern go about having the U.S. Security State consolidate control over our social media platforms? How is it possible that the very same factions that spent the last seven years warning shrilly of the grave dangers that come from the U.S. government controlling the flow of speech over the Internet, now suddenly want to consolidate even greater power in their hands by allowing them to seize control of the one massive social media platform used by Americans that they don't yet fully control? 

The one lesson I always hoped we had learned over the past 25 years, since the beginning of the War on Terror, but so often have to reluctantly conclude that we haven't learned it is that the universal tactic used by the U.S. government when it wants to seize more power over the American population is to scare them relentlessly about some foreign threat that everyone agrees is bad, and that they hate Russia, or al-Qaida or ISIS or China, or right-wing white supremacy and premises in the U.S., all to induce people to unite around this common enemy and then agree to anything in exchange for protection from it. That's exactly what's going on here. And beyond all of that, as happened the last time when the U.S. government said it wanted to ban TikTok and then offered a bill that it said would achieve that, the bill that is now being presented goes far, far beyond that. 

We'll talk later in the show to the intrepid independent reporter Michael Tracey, who has been doing a great job of closely tracking and analyzing the bill's language to understand what it actually does, which is more important than allowing politicians and media figures just to keep screaming China over and over and over until you're officially and sufficiently scared that you're willing to give up more control over online speech in the name of this scary foreign villain. 

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update, starting right now. 

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Lee Fang on Financial Interests Behind H1B & LA Mayor Skipping Town
System Update #386 Part 2

The following is an abridged transcript of a segment from System Update’s most recent episode, lightly edited for clarity and readability. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.

System Update is an independent show that is free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!


Independent journalist Lee Fang is a longtime colleague of mine. We worked together for many years at The Intercept, and he's also a friend of the show and a friend of mine. One of the reasons why I ask him to be here a lot is because he does the kind of reporting that has really become increasingly rare, including in all the places that claim that only they are professional journalists. He really has become a specialist in figuring out how to trace the flow of financial information and the flow of money through Washington, and how it shapes the ideology of various groups, how it shapes the willingness of politicians to change their mind, how it makes them go to bat for all kinds of lobbying groups that are shoveling all sorts of money to them. 

He's been particularly digging into over the past month or so both the issue of the debate that arose, the intra-conservative, the intra-right debate, among Trump coalition factions about whether or not H-1B visas should be maintained at their current levels, whether they should be increased as people like Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy have been insisting they should be or whether they should be reduced or eliminated as Trump in his first term wanted to do and as a lot of his longest-term core supporters who are true believers in the MAGA ideology actually want to do it. It seems like a very vibrant debate, a very intellectually spirited debate, which it was. But there was also a lot of lobbying, and a lot of money involved behind it, which Lee really, as usual, delved into and helped expose. 

He also was a long-time resident of California and spends a lot of time focused on politics in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles and so, there's a lot of work he's done and a lot of things he has to say about the fires that are raging throughout Los Angeles as well as the behavior of Los Angeles Mayor, Karen Bass, including the fact that she was in Ghana as the fire broke out, despite having been told, according to his reporting, that these dangers were quite imminent. 

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The interview: Lee Fang

G. Greenwald:, it's great to see you, as always. Thanks for talking to us tonight. 

Lee Fang: Hey, Glenn, good to see you. 

G. Greenwald: All right. So, let's start with these fires, because it's kind of remarkable seeing these images of entire communities of a pretty iconic American city, Los Angeles, a very beautiful city, going up in flames. And who knows when this fire is going to get under control. There's been a lot of focus as there would be in this kind of an instance on officials in California, to some extent, California Governor Gavin Newsom, but especially the city's newly elected mayor, Karen Bass. She was elected in 2023, if I'm not mistaken. And she was also someone who was on the short list when Joe Biden said he was going to pick a black woman for vice president. She was one of three people with Kamala Harris, another person who was a possible vice president pick. As these fires broke out, she was nowhere to be found. She was actually on some kind of international trip to Ghana. And there's been a lot of criticism about this. You wrote an article on your Substack, which as usual I highly recommend.

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Before reading your article when I first heard about this criticism of her, part of me thought, for better or worse, governors and mayors do go on these kinds of international trips. Usually, they're just opportunities to get free travel to places these people want to go but sometimes there are legitimate reasons and it was this kind of bad luck that she happened to be in Ghana at the moment these fires broke out. She couldn't have anticipated that, she came back immediately when they started to spread and so, this criticism seemed a little bit cheap and exploitative. Then I read your article which suggested that actually she probably had reason to know that she should have stayed in L.A., not necessarily that these fires happened on this day, but certainly reason to know that she had work to do that she didn't do, instead of going to Ghana. What is it that you discovered about all that? 

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From EU to Brazil, International Rage Over Zuckerberg’s Vow to End Censorship
System Update #386 Part 1

The following is an abridged transcript of a segment from System Update’s most recent episode, lightly edited for clarity and readability. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.

System Update is an independent show that is free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!


On Monday night, we delved into great detail about the multi-prong and quite surprising announcement by Facebook founder and current Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, in which he essentially took up the banner of free speech online, waved it quite assertively, denounced not just online political censorship in general, including of the kind Facebook and Instagram have frequently engaged in, but took direct aim – probably the most consequential part of what he said – because it was so specific and so much condemnation at the so-called disinformation and fact-checking industry that has been concocted and fabricated, and that has originated after 2016 as the tip of the spear to justify the imposition of political censorship on political discourse online. 

We delved into the components of Zuckerberg's announcement, the new Meta policies that he laid out, the reasons to be skeptical of both him and those policies, and the possible holes in them but we also talked a great deal about the undeniably significant aspect of this announcement and the rage and anger and fear that it was provoking inside the United States, particularly among the disinformation groups and the fact-checkers whose credibility suffered a huge blow when Zuckerberg denounced them as being politicized and unreliable, therefore, people with whom Meta’s platforms would no longer be doing business. 

That outrage and that fear have only proliferated and gotten much more intense, not just in the United States. Remember, Meta is obviously a huge international or even global company: Instagram is extremely popular in numerous countries throughout the West and throughout the democratic world. So still too, is Facebook, if you can believe that, and Threads even has gotten a few more users over the past few months. 

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The Weekly Update
From January 6th to January 10th

Welcome to this week's Weekly Update!

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Daily Updates

MONDAY: Remembering January 6th

In this episode, we discussed…

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  3. Free speech dying for the benefit of Israel;

TUESDAY: Zuckerberg and the Disinfo Complex 

In this episode, we asked…

  1. If Mark Zuckerberg’s recent announcement is genuine or strategic;

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  3. Why the fact-checking industry is melting down;

WEDNESDAY: The View from Tehran

In this episode, we talked about…

  1. Israel destroying itself and its image on the international stage;

  2. What the West gets wrong, according to Iran’s most prominent academic;

THURSDAY: International Zuck-Fueled Hatred, Los Angeles and H-1B

In this episode, we talked about…

  1. More outrage over Meta’s decision;

  2. Karen Bass leaving Los Angeles as it burns;

FRIDAY: Tulsi Bends, Tracking the IDF, and ‘System Pupdate’

In this episode, we examined…

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  2. How Mike Johnson sold out for power;

  3. One group’s mission to track (and prosecute) traveling IDF soldiers;

  4. System Pupdate: Pointer!

 

About those question submissions: They’re LIVE!

Here’s a repeat announcement for all of you: 

We noticed that many of you didn’t submit recorded questions, possibly because the process was unclear. Regardless, we’re here to announce that our submission feature is now LIVE. Simply follow the Rumble Studio link included in our Tuesday and Thursday Locals after-show announcements to record your questions, share praise for our editors, or comment on current events.

Again, please be aware that shorter questions are easier to include in the after-show!

 

That’s it for this edition of the Weekly Update! 

We’ll see you next week…

“Stay tuned for a Weekly Update update!”

— System Update Crew

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