Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
Hunter Biden's Conviction Proves Media’s 2020 "Disinfo" Campaign; Joe Biden's Approval Ratings at Record Low After Trump Verdict; Liberals Embrace Prison Fantasies to Warn of Trump’s Dangers | SYSTEM UPDATE 281
Video Transcript
June 13, 2024
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Good evening. It's June 11. 

Tonight: In a federal courtroom earlier today in Delaware, a jury very quickly and unanimously returned guilty verdicts on all three felony charges brought against the president's son, Hunter Biden. 

There are all sorts of points to note about this trial and today's conviction. First, it's worth recalling that DOJ prosecutors repeatedly tried hard to sweep the case under the rug through absurdly generous plea offers. IRS whistleblowers insisted that the investigation into Hunter Biden's crimes was far more passive and bizarrely limited than most Americans who face similar tax fraud investigations. The charges he was convicted of today are far less serious than many other charges he will face – or could face – especially for unregistered foreign lobbying. The White House will almost certainly try to exploit this conviction to refute Trump's claims that the Justice Department is being weaponized against him. After all, they will say, the president's own son was tried and convicted, proving the justice and blindness of our judicial system. 

However, at least for me, one point stands out above all the rest. The prosecution of Hunter Biden relied overwhelmingly on the documents and other materials found on his laptop, the very same laptop that The New York Post used right before the 2020 election to report on a series of highly sketchy and ethically questionable business deals that the Biden family was pursuing in both Ukraine and China, with the very likely involvement of Joe Biden himself. Those are the same documents and laptop that CIA and Intelligence officials, the Democratic Party and the liberal wing of the corporate media united before the 2020 election to falsely brand as “Russian disinformation,” which had the multiple pro-Biden effects of encouraging Americans to ignore the documents as fabrications, to believe that Russia was yet again interfering in our election to help Trump win, this time with forged documents and Hunter Biden's name. It also provided a pretext for Big Tech platforms such as Facebook and Twitter to actively censor this reporting about the Bidens from even being discussed, preventing millions of Americans from even hearing about it.

That the FBI and the DOJ were able to enter those laptop documents as evidence in this trial, by definition, meant that the court concluded the documents were authentic. Biden and his lawyers barely even tried to dispute their authenticity, and the jury's guilty verdicts prove that they also found the documents authentic and reliable. In other words, it's the final nail in the coffin of one of the most blatant and consequential acts of disinformation in the last decade, all done to ensure Joe Biden's victory before the 2020 election. 

Then: As the 2024 election approaches and it appears that liberals' greatest hope to win, namely Trump's conviction in Manhattan, has little to no effect on the electorate, they, and especially their media, are getting increasingly shrill, desperate, unhinged and shockingly deranged in their blind and spastic efforts to find some way to defeat Donald Trump. Over the past 24 hours, both Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and MSNBC's Rachel Maddow have earnestly announced that they fear that Trump will imprison those two dangerous and brave dissidents in the domestic concentration camps that Trump intends to build. That very sober announcement followed the on-the-brink-of-tears warning – really a plea – from former Bush/Cheney spokeswoman and current MSNBC host Nicolle Wallace, who said that a Trump victory might mean that Trump would cancel her show – ban her from being on the air.

The irony of all of this – that it is exactly these people who have been drooling for years over the prospect of imprisoning Trump – never seems to occur to them. But it is nonetheless worth looking at to see the level of hysteria, paranoia and emotional instability that is forming much of our political and media discourse.

Plus: after that, many Democrats spent the last two years genuinely believing and explicitly claiming that convicting Donald Trump on various crimes is their salvation to winning the 2024 election. Over and over, they said openly that if we can get Donald Trump into prison or at least convicted in a court of law before the election, that is our real chance to win. They got a conviction in Manhattan and yet polling data after that conviction shows that, at least for now, the electorate seems to care very little about that issue and it is very, very, very far from their top concerns when deciding for whom they will vote. More disturbing for Democrats, a FiveThirtyEight polling survey finds that Joe Biden has reached his all-time low in presidential approval ratings just five months before the election. 

Think about what all this says about, among other things, the corporate media, how simultaneously out-of-touch they are with voters believing that the guilty verdict will determine how they vote, not the economy or inflation or immigration or anything else. Yet it also shows how obviously and rapidly declining their influence over American voters is since they've been telling them for two years that Joe Biden is the salvation, the only way to protect American democracy. Obviously, they're speaking only to like-minded people, and therefore the people don't believe and are not in any way affected by anything that they're saying. 

 

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update, starting right now. 


It is not all that difficult, it might even be tempting, to make the argument that the behavior, even the criminal conduct of the president's son, Hunter Biden, is not all that relevant to our public discourse after all. So goes this rationale: Hunter Biden has never run for political office; he's not running for political office in 2024; Parents can't be held responsible for the conduct of their adult children, any more than those adult children can’t be held responsible for the conduct of their parents. The fact that Hunter Biden is – or at least was, I guess, the claim goes – a serious drug addict is something that is very well known and it is often the case that people who get addicted to very serious narcotics, or who become alcoholics because of those addictions, are likely to engage in very morally questionable or unethical and often criminal behavior. 

The problem is that Hunter Biden was charged with federal crimes and was convicted in a federal courtroom. That means that the prosecutors who decided his fate work directly for Biden’s Justice Department and answer to Joe Biden's attorney general, Merrick Garland. Besides that, there has been a lot going on in this case with a very significant impact on many matters that are clearly in the public interest. I've never thought that Hunter Biden's personal life - his sex life and his drug usage - were of any relevance to anything. That's his private life with presumably all adult, consensual partners and no one has claimed otherwise. The question, though, is how has this case been handled and what does it say about both the fairness of our justice system and the behavior of the American media. 

So just to give you the background on the charges for which he was convicted, we’ll use The New York Times report from today:

 

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He could face up to 25 years in prison, but first-time offenders who did not use their weapons to commit a violent crime typically receive no jail time. No sentencing date was set.

 

In September, Mr. Biden is scheduled to go on trial in Los Angeles for charges that he evaded a tax assessment, failed to file and pay taxes, and filed a false or fraudulent tax return. It is considered the more serious case against him.

 

The guilty verdict in his gun case on Tuesday raises the possibility that he would receive a stiffer sentence if a jury convicts him in the tax case because federal guidelines take into account previous convictions. (The New York Times, June 11, 2024)



So, he has another and more serious case, with more serious charges, that is imminent and will likely be in September before the election. And then, of course, he would no longer be a first-time offender. 

 

One of the things that I think is very interesting is that the court charge that they brought against Hunter Biden here is that he purchased a weapon but, under federal law, if you are an active drug addict or drug user, you are not permitted to purchase a firearm. He had to fill out a form in which he attested to the fact that he was not an active drug user. And the basic charge against him that brought this trial was that he submitted a false statement to obtain a firearm. Technically, that is a crime. I wouldn't call it a very serious crime, especially since, as the article noted, he can use a firearm against anybody. But certainly, it was the case that you could say the same thing about Donald Trump, namely that altering your internal bookkeeping to cover up hush payments to a porn star may be technically illegal. I wouldn't suggest it as a misdemeanor, but it's the kind of thing that would almost never be brought against anyone not named Donald Trump. 

Interestingly, I saw a lot of conservatives and a lot of Trump supporters today, on principle, objecting to the conviction of Hunter Biden by arguing that Americans have the constitutional right to carry firearms, there's no drug addict or drug use exception to that constitutional right, and that essentially the idea that you can't purchase a firearm without proving that you're not a drug addict is a violation of the Second Amendment. Seeing a lot of conservatives, on principle, objecting to Hunter Biden's conviction in this case, something I have to say, I did not see or can't recall seeing a single liberal doing – invoking a principle about criminal justice or how courts work to make a similar defense about Donald Trump – that's something I find very interesting. 

The other aspect of this is that the real questions about Hunter Biden, criminally speaking, have never been in this case, they have never been about his attempt to purchase a gun while being a drug addict. The real issue is the corruption Hunter Biden engaged in in places like Ukraine and China. That was what The New York Post was trying to report in 2020, when the entire media united against them to disparage that reporting falsely as the byproduct of Russian disinformation, reporting that Big Tech then tried to censor. The real question surrounding Hunter Biden's criminality is what he was doing in Ukraine, a country where his father as vice president was basically running.

Remember, Joe Biden has often boasted about the orders he gave to the Ukrainian government to remove certain prosecutors that he disliked, the threats that he made to the Ukrainians to withhold $1 billion in aid unless they followed his command to remove a prosecutor. Joe Biden was running Ukraine as kind of an imperial overlord, micromanaging all sorts of things at the same time that Hunter Biden was being paid $50,000 a month by a Ukrainian energy company, Burisma, despite no experience in that industry, no knowledge of it at all. There is all kinds of evidence that Burisma tried and succeeded through Hunter Biden in gaining access to Joe Biden. And then on top of that, you have all sorts of very strange deals that Hunter Biden and President Biden's brother were pursuing together in China. 

One of the memos The New York Post found from the laptop, which the media falsely said was a fabrication, shows that Joe Biden had potential profit participation in one of those deals. There is all kinds of sketchy behavior and potential criminality on the part of not only Hunter Biden but other members of his family, which, in many ways, this trial over these relatively trivial charges seems intended to conceal or to distract from. 

The other aspect of it, of course, and we reported on this last week when the charges were first brought, was that an FBI agent testified at length about how much they relied on the documents that came from Hunter Biden's laptop, the laptop that the entire media, the CIA and Big Tech united before the election to deliberately lie about and call it Russian disinformation, even though there was never an iota of support to make that claim. We now know that claim was an absolute lie – actually, I knew it before the 2020 election. Media outlets admitted that shortly after Biden was elected. We've had all kinds of evidence since then that proves the authenticity of these documents. But the fact that Hunter Biden was just convicted based on the admissibility of evidence that they took from his laptop, the same one that we were told was Russian disinformation and couldn't be proven. As you know, I was prevented by my own media outlet from reporting on the contents of those documents based on the Intercept’s claim that they got from the CIA that there was doubt about the authenticity of those documents. This was something that the media did, and very well may have swung the election, given that people were already concerned about Democrats and the kind of corruption in which they engaged, but were simply barred from hearing about this story because the media instead focused on pronouncing it to be Russian disinformation. When Trump raised it in debate, Biden immediately said, you're doing the Kremlin's work. And of course, the worst thing of all was that Big Tech censored Twitter for several days, Facebook said they were algorithmically suppressing the story, and they wouldn’t answer questions about how long that lasted. Presumably, it lasted through the end of the election, something far more consequential than what Twitter did. Yet, this trial now proves this. 

From NBC News on June 5.

 

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The witness, FBI agent Erika Jensen, testified about the authenticity of Hunter Biden's laptop, which has been the subject of rumors and speculation online for years. Jensen said the laptop contained evidence of Hunter Biden's drug and gun purchase. (NBC News, June 5, 2024)

 

The FBI agent explained exactly how they confirmed the authenticity of that email, namely subpoenaing Apple and saying that the contents and the serial number were exactly the same. 

 

One of the things that should not be forgotten about all this, because we did end up with a conviction here, is how much was done by prosecutors and other agencies in the executive branch that answer to Joe Biden to cover up and conceal and prevent any of this from ever seeing the light of day. One of the most remarkable things was that the prosecutors working for the special counsel negotiated an extraordinary plea deal with Hunter Biden. They said: if you plead guilty, just to these gun charges, we will give you full immunity on every other conceivable criminal charge that you might face, even unrelated to these issues – including the ones I mentioned, such as the possibility of lobbying on behalf of foreign governments without registering it, a crime that they convicted many Trump officials, such as Paul Manafort, of having engaged in. It was a deal unlike the ones you ever get for an ordinary citizen. And they did it in the back room, on the phone with Hunter Biden and his lawyers. 

There was a lot of speculation, a lot of concerns raised by people in Congress and by others that this deal seemed very overly generous, that it was designed not only to end this case with no jail time but also to prevent any of the other future charges, the ones that are far more serious, from ever seeing the light of day. And that plea deal completely fell apart the minute that it was brought into the public light. 

 

Here's The New York Times article from July of 2023:

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In other words, instead of just accepting the plea deal, she kind of just began questioning in public what this plea deal actually entailed. 

 

Judge Maryellen Noreika has delayed a decision on whether to accept the plea agreement between federal prosecutors and Hunter Biden — demanding that the two sides make changes in the deal clarifying her role and insert language that limits the broad immunity from prosecution offered to Biden on his business dealings.

 

From the start, the judge seemed highly skeptical of the unusual deal — which offered Hunter Biden broad immunity from prosecution in perpetuity, questioning why it had been filed under a provision that gave her no legal authority to reject it. When she asked Leo Wise, a prosecutor, if there was any precedent for the kind of deal being proposed, he replied, “No, your honor.” (NYT, July 26, 2023)

 

And what happened was that, in secret, the prosecutor said, you have full immunity on all charges but, once they had to explain themselves and justify the plea deal to the court upon just a little bit of judicial scrutiny, the prosecutors were so embarrassed by how generous this plea deal was that, on the spot, they reinterpreted it and they told the judge it did not include other investigations and criminal activity that Hunter Biden may have been responsible for when it came to illegal foreign lobbying. 

The minute the prosecutor said that Hunter Biden's lawyers were outraged – correctly – because they said, “That wasn't our plea deal, you told us that it covers all charges.” The prosecutors were too embarrassed to have the public know just how broad it was. They had to deny that it included all future charges, and that was when the plea deal fell apart and then they took this case to trial. 

There were all kinds of shenanigans, as Democrats tried to claim all this proves the justice system is politicized, it is blind to who they're treating, even convicting the president's son. Remember how many times whistleblowers came forward, it was very clear that these prosecutors were doing everything possible to protect Hunter Biden in every way. 

One of the things that has long disgusted me about the media’s attempt to defend Hunter Biden, and we're seeing it in all sorts of different places now with this trial ongoing and the conviction is, the idea that, oh, actually, this is not about his criminality. It's actually a beautiful and moving story about a father's love for his son and the struggles that many families in America face in overcoming addiction. Of course, indeed, millions of Americans either themselves or members of their families, a close family member or friends struggle with addiction and alcoholism, and it can ruin their lives and wreck their lives. But they don't have the media launching a propaganda campaign to say that they shouldn't have to pay for any of the consequences of that because of this addiction. And yet, here's what the media has been doing from the start when it comes to Hunter Biden. And only Hunter Biden.

Here was the New York Times's Nicholas Kristof, when these charges were brought:

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It was not only something that didn't reflect negatively on Hunter Biden or his father. It was actually something that showed how beautiful they are because the crimes that Hunter Biden committed were actually motivated by his addiction, for which we should not have any sort of anger toward him as a society or seek to punish him, but have only empathy – an idea which, by the way, I generally support, that addiction is more of a health problem than it is a penal problem, that addicts should be treated with resources and not put into prison. That doesn't mean that crimes they commit, actual crimes, should be excused because they're addicts. But in general, I agree that that is the correct approach to drug addiction and alcoholism in the U.S. And I would be celebrating this if it weren't for the fact that it's only being invoked not on behalf of all American families struggling with addiction and alcoholism, but only in the case of Hunter Biden. 

Here is a video of a segment on “Morning Joe” about the Hunter Biden case yesterday that involved the extremely partisan columnist for “The Daily Beast,” Molly Jong-Fast, who grew up in Manhattan as the daughter of an extremely famous and wealthy novelist, Erica Jong. 

The graphic on the screen reads “Republicans are going after Hunter Biden for his addiction, and they're playing a dangerous game.” That was the title of the article she wrote, claiming that Republicans were going after Hunter Biden not because he committed crimes, not because he was lobbying in Ukraine and China, or pursuing business deals but they are going after him because he's an addict. He was the victim here. The real victim was Hunter Biden. Listen to this. 

 

(Video. Molly Jong-Fast. MSNBC. June 10, 2024)

 

Mika B: You could talk a little bit more about this. It seems to me that it would be very hard to find a jury that has been untouched by addiction completely. 

 

Molly Jong-Fast: Yeah. And the reason that I wanted to come forward and write about this is because even though I've been sober since I was a teenager, I felt that the disease Hunter Biden has is the same disease that I have, is the same disease that, you know, almost 20% of the country has. And, you know, Republicans do love to talk about, like, fentanyl coming over the border like there's a reason that, you know, drugs are a problem in this country and it's largely because of addiction. So, this is another part of that. I think Republicans have really, actually not had a lot of success using Hunter Biden to sully Joe Biden. But they have tried one of the sort of moments in the debate where Biden ended up, you know, being that Biden that voters really like was when he talked about his son's addiction. And he said, you know, he struggled with addiction. He's made it through and that he's incredibly proud of his son for that. And look, I came forward partially because I wanted to destigmatize this. And I feel like, you know, a lot of talk for a long time, alcoholism and addiction was this terrible secret we didn't talk about. I feel like for me because I've been sober since I was a teenager, I have this ability to talk about it in a way that's a […] 

 

Okay. She's so brave. She admitted she was an alcoholic when she was a teenager and therefore she shares the same illness as Hunter Biden. 

 

As I said, I actually do believe strongly in this model of empathy for addicts and in using our resources to help them recover from that addiction or from alcoholism, instead of just throwing them in a prison cell where it's likely to get worse. But what sickens me about this is fake compassion. This is fake empathy. It's politicizing empathy for addiction. I want you to think about this: have you ever heard major television outlets, or a huge army of pundits, coming forward to defend ordinary Americans who are being convicted of crimes that resulted from their addiction or from their alcoholism in this way? And what sickens me even more is this idea that Joe Biden is a particularly compassionate politician who Americans love when they get to see that side of him. He's expressing so much support and empathy for his son's drug addiction and that shows what kind of person Joe Biden is. 

The irony of that is that there is no single political official in Washington over the last several decades who has been a more aggressive, unapologetic and unyielding supporter of imposing the harshest possible prison sentences not on major drug lords or drug dealers, but on drug users. This empathy has never emerged or been seen in Joe Biden's entire life until it came time to defend his son. And I think the notion that someone has compassion or empathy for a certain behavior only when it affects themselves and wants to throw everyone else in prison, far from being a virtue, is a very repellent character flaw. 

Let me just show you one of Joe Biden's many, many speeches on this issue that completely contradict this narrative. It’s from 1991 when he was speaking on the Senate floor. Remember, he's been a senator since the 1970s, when he was 29 years old. 

(Video. Joe Biden. U.S. Senate Floor. 1991)

Joe Biden: […] But let's look at the facts. Since 1986, Congress has passed over 230 new or expanded penalties for drug and criminal offenses in the United States – 230 new penalties. And these penalties range from an automatic five years in jail for any person caught with a rock of crack cocaine, a piece of crack cocaine as small as a quarter. I don't have a quarter with me. Maybe if you visualize what one looks like. Yeah, I do have a quarter. If you have a piece of crack cocaine, no bigger than this quarter that I'm holding to my head, one-quarter of $1. We passed a law through the leadership of Senator Thurman and myself and others, a law that says if you're caught with that, you go to jail for five years, you get no probation. You get nothing other than five years in jail. The judge doesn't have a choice. Now, the fact of the matter is, we've gone from there all the way up to saying, under the leadership of Senator Thurman – and I'd like to suggest that I take some small credit for it myself as well, and others, the presiding officer – that there is now a death penalty, and we passed it a couple of years ago. If you are a major drug dealer involved in the trafficking of drugs and murder results in your activities, you go to death. 



Okay, so we've all by now seen the video of Hunter Biden using crack cocaine. The amount of crack cocaine that he had and was using was far, far, far bigger than that quarter that Joe Biden was referring to. And in this video, Joe Biden was boasting of the fact that a law that he helped implement required – not permit a judge, but required a judge – to send anybody possessing crack cocaine, even a tiny amount, directly to prison for five years, with no possibility of parole or mitigation or any kind of understanding of their situation. And this is something that he's done his entire career. He's never apologized for this, rescinded this, said that he was in error. So, this idea that Joe Biden is empathetic to drug users and we all should be so moved by that is a complete revision of the actual history of the actual behavior of Joe Biden and his attempt to imprison and, of course, doing that with crack cocaine also had made to racial disparities. It put a huge number of black people in prison whose crime was nothing other than being a drug addict using crack cocaine that they got hooked on, just like Joe Biden's son did. And so, to watch this kind of serious issue about how we treat addiction, how we deal with communities ravaged by addiction, trifled with and played with and so cynically manipulated, simply to defend Hunter Biden, when the real story is how the Biden Justice Department, just like they've been going after Trump, tried to do everything to shield his son, is truly sickening. It gives you an idea, however, of just how these partisan channels are willing to say literally anything to distort reality right in front of your eyes to achieve their partisan objectives.

 

 



One of the things that you would have thought the 2016 election demonstrated or proved to the corporate media, or at least prompted a lot of self-reflection, was just how completely removed and out of touch and separate they are from the ordinary voter. The entire media essentially was united in support of Hillary Clinton's campaign and against Donald Trump's campaign. They did everything possible to sabotage that campaign, including drowning the country in yet another disinformation campaign – not the laptop disinformation campaign that was 2020 – but the Russiagate disinformation campaign that came from the FBI and the CIA, an attempt to sabotage Donald Trump's candidacy that they did fear because of the ideology, views and policies he was advocating. 

Throughout the year, they insisted that there had never been a candidate as dangerous as Donald Trump. Every newsroom was absolutely certain that Hillary Clinton was not only going to be the winner of that election but also win by a very comfortable margin. None of that happened. Voters had very different priorities than people who are ensconced in studios in Washington and New York and working with large contracts from major media corporations. 

Surprise, surprise, people who are far less economically well-off or who live in different places or have different values, don't actually feel represented by the media that, say, 50 or 60 years ago, they felt very represented by and that actually tried to support all sectors of American life. That's no longer the case. Everything is segregated. Liberal outlets, which aren't most in the corporate media, know that they're speaking only to liberals. That's their business model. It's their political activist model. And so, when they drone on and on and on, they're mostly speaking to people who already are on their side, and it changes nothing. 

Here we are in 2024 and I don't need to tell you everything the media has been saying and doing to convince Americans, yet again, that Donald Trump is not just a bad president, but basically a Hitlerian figure, a major threat to American democracy. It's something we hear over and over and over. As I mentioned, they were quite certain that convicting Donald Trump on any felony, no matter what it was, would basically sabotage and doom his candidacy and at the same time ensure Joe Biden's reelection. 

 

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And yet, lo and behold, from FiveThirtyEight, the site that Nate Silver founded that analyzes and aggregates polling data, here you see that Joe Biden's approval rating is currently at its lowest ever rate. 

This is from February 2023 and throughout 2023 into 2024. His disapproval rating is now 56.6%, while his approval rating is 37.6%. And this comes in the wake of an onslaught by the corporate media to glorify Joe Biden's presidency, to convince Americans that their belief that they're struggling economically is misplaced and baseless. 

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard or seen journalists who work for cable outlets or other major media corporations who have multimillion-dollar contracts as their annual salary, who have large homes in which they live, paid off along with their summer homes in the Hamptons or in Georgetown, where they live, and then in Martha's Vineyard, tell everybody the economy is doing very, very well. It’s you Americans out there who think that you're economically struggling and don't understand the data. You should not be angry at Joe Biden. You should be grateful because of how good your lives are. And then they're shocked when Joe Biden's approval ratings continue to plummet. It is a reflection not only of how little in common they have with the people who they think they are lecturing and directing and leading but also just how incapable they are of understanding the priorities of American voters because they're completely different from these media figures, for obvious reasons, that if you're very wealthy, if you're making a lot of money, your concern for the economy is much less. Your belief that the economy is doing very well is much higher because the economy actually is doing well for you, which doesn't mean it's doing well for everybody else. 

The other aspect, obviously, and we've seen this in polling data over and over and over and over, is that one of the main reasons the American public does not trust Joe Biden and does not want to vote for him for a second term is the obviously well-grounded belief that Biden, who is now 81, already the oldest American president ever to serve in that office, is trying to run for a second term, which will bring him to the age of 85 at the end of that term. Everyone can see in plain sight that he is rapidly deteriorating cognitively and in every other way as a result of age. One of the reasons why American voters are so impervious to being gaslit and told that what they're seeing is not the truth is because this is one of the areas in which Americans have a lot of confidence in their own ability to judge, they don't need experts to help guide them through that. That's because most of us have had the experience – I know I have and most people I know have – of having loved ones or family members who get very old, in their 80s and 90s, deteriorate in every way, cognitively and physically. And we can recognize it. We don't need journalists to tell us whether it's true. We can see it for ourselves. Just that video clip I showed you from Biden in 1991 shows he's a completely different individual. 

And yet, I want to show you just a clip that I found so amazing. There was recently a Wall Street Journal article that was headlined “Behind Closed Doors, Biden Shows Signs of Slipping.” And it quoted a lot of Democrats, although none of them, because they're cowards, would go on the record talking about how in meetings it's actually embarrassing, he sometimes rambles and no one has any idea what he's saying. They're talking about matters of war and peace or economic policy or the debt ceiling or agreements and he just starts rambling, and there's a very soft voice that almost nobody can hear. Half the time he's reading from note cards that are the most basic and elementary points that everybody already understands and agrees with, and that has nothing to do with the negotiation. And for a long period of time, he'll just close his eyes and check out. Or when it's time for him to speak, there will just be dead silence for 30 seconds. Even Democrats are saying how uncomfortable it is, how visible it is that we're all seeing the same thing in public. 

The White House has been trying to say, oh, don't worry, in private, he's this very sharp, robust leader, even if you don't see it in public. So, the Wall Street Journal was deeply reported, but the only ones who would go on record were Republicans, even though a lot of Democrats were saying the same thing. 

Here's how Joe Scarborough, who let's remember, was a Republican his entire life. In 1994, he was elected to Congress as part of the anti-establishment, conservative backlash led by Newt Gingrich. He was one of those congressmen, and now he has a multimillion-dollar contract with MSNBC. And he knows that to keep that, he has to essentially engage in anti-Trump propaganda every day, which he does. But here is Joe Scarborough, trying to convince people that not only is Joe Biden not suffering cognitive decline, but he is essentially sharper, more analytically sophisticated and more tuned to complex issues in economics and foreign policy than almost anybody else in Washington. Just listen to this. 

 

(Video. Morning Joe. June 9, 2024)

 

MB: […] When Biden was negotiating with House Republicans to lift the debt ceiling, his demeanor and command of the details seemed to shift from one day to the next, according to then-House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, 

 

Joe Scarborough: […] people around Mike Johnson and the senator admit that this was basically House Republicans whacking. 

 

MB: Why didn't they just ask Marjorie Taylor Greene? 

 

Joe Scarborough: Exactly. Why? Yeah. They could […]

 

MB: And Lauren Boebert

 

Joe Scarborough: It's it it's really shocking, especially when you see what Kevin McCarthy has said repeatedly, publicly and behind the scenes, about Biden, on those same days when they were negotiating,

 

MB: The strong feelings you're seeing about this article comes also because the context of this race and these two candidates… It's interesting. That's all I'll say. Anyhow, that flies in the face of what McCarthy said about Biden's effectiveness in the past. From Politico last year, quote, “McCarthy mocked Biden's age and mental acuity in public.” […]

 

Joe Scarborough: In public, like he did in this article.

 

MB: […] “While privately telling allies that he found the president sharp and substantive in their conversations – a contradiction that left a deep impression on the White House.” This is from the New York Times: “Privately, Mr. McCarthy has told allies that he has found Mr. Biden to be mentally sharp in meetings.” 

 

And Joe Scarborough rather went on a five-minute rant about how he has known how speakers met with House speakers for over 30 years, and that the current Joe Biden puts every one of them to shame, including Kevin McCarthy, when it comes to his mental acuity, his ability to understand and make strong, reasoned decisions on complex matters… I mean, this is North Korea-level-style propaganda. This is the sort of thing that anybody with a minimal amount of shame would refuse to do. But these partisan outlets have none of that shame. I mean, they're counting on trying to tell the American people that what they're seeing, they should not believe, they should not trust their own lying eyes. I mean, that is the only strategy and every day you see new images of Biden shuffling, that kind of very slow shuffle, representing just a complete kind of gradual shutdown of the human organism, of the body, which obviously includes the brain as well. You can see him, half the time, with no idea where he is, no idea where he's supposed to go, looking extremely confused. 

And yet, Democrats, wealthy, out-of-touch Democrats, really believe that what people are going to vote on are things like Trump's conviction in a Manhattan courtroom, in what they probably perceive to be nothing more than a private matter of infidelity, something that during the Clinton years they proved they really don't care about. What they want in their political leaders are people who are going to make their lives materially better. They have a positive recollection of the Trump economy, before COVID, and they feel they're economically struggling under Biden. And yet the kind of people who are reading Democrats and telling them what it is that they should say are people like Alexander Soros. 

 

If you can find a person who has less in common with almost every other American, let alone average Americans in swing states, than Alexander Soros, I'd like to find out who that is. He was not only born into multi-billionaire wealth that he did not earn, though inherited, but every single thing that Alexander Soros has done in his life – everything that he is – is the exclusive byproduct of genetic luck, of having been born to somebody who actually compiled a massive fortune, regardless of how they did that. 

Alexander Soros didn't try to go into another field to prove that he was capable. He just followed his father around and he inherited the Open Society Foundation that his father runs, and the way that he exercises political control with billions of dollars, and even that alone. Imagine the Open Society is a big foundation with huge numbers of employees. Do you think George Soros’s son just happens to be the best person, the most competent person to run it? 

Everyone knows Alexander Soros is only relevant and important because he got billions and billions of dollars that he did not earn. He's somebody whose entire life comes not from any of his accomplishments, but purely his father's. And you would think that would bestow somebody with a sense of shame, or at least humility, like, “Maybe I don't actually understand how the majority of American voters reason and what's important to them and what they're going through because I was born into unimaginable billionaire wealth that I've now inherited.” But apparently, people like him have no shame. What ends up happening is that because of how I'm sure everyone around Alexander Soros has treated him since birth, how elites treat him knowing that he has more money than almost anybody – George Soros uses more money to influence the political system than anybody, so, you can imagine how the doors swing open for Alexander Soros and how they always have – and somehow that has convinced him not that he is a byproduct of luck and unearned success, but that he somehow has been endowed with great wisdom as reflected by the power that he has amassed. 

Here he is issuing instructions to the Democratic Party. Every day, he posts pictures of himself with Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, or Nancy Pelosi. He's always with them, donating money and having fundraisers. And here he is telling them what Democrats should do to win the election. This is the decree he issued on May 31:



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If you're Alexander Soros and you're drowning in billions of dollars of wealth, and you have access to every single elite sector, maybe the things that you think are the top concerns for voters are not really the top concerns for voters. Maybe believing that Trump's conviction in the Manhattan trial in a case involving a porn star and hush payments might not be the most important thing to Americans who weren't born into billions of dollars of wealth. Yet, this is how they constantly reason. That's the way in which these media people are: so out of touch with the public who they think they're lecturing into and directing. 

 

Here is actual empirical data, polling data after the Trump conviction that shows what Americans' priorities actually are. From CBS News on June 9: 



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Among all the factors on voters' minds this election, former President Donald Trump's guilty verdict pales in comparison to issues like the economy, inflation, and the border — all items on which Trump maintains advantages. As such, the verdict has not dramatically reshaped the race. 

 

(CBS News, June 9, 2024)



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Again, if you are a very wealthy liberal immediately, let alone Alexander Soros, none of these issues matter to you. You don't care about inflation. You don't even notice inflation. 

The first issue that Americans are concerned about, the major factor is the economy (81%); inflation (75%); state of democracy (74%); crime (62%); the U.S.-Mexico border (56%); gun policy (52%). 

At the very end is Trump's conviction: only 28%. 

Look at the enormous disparity between that and all those other issues that have affected people's lives. I'll guarantee you that the 28% who even said they cared that much were overwhelmingly Democratic voters who would never vote for Trump, in any event. But the media keep telling them that's such an important issue. 

Again, if you're a wealthy liberal elite on the coast, of course, you don't think these issues matter. The economy is doing great for you. You don't notice inflation because you're so rich. You live in neighborhoods where crime doesn't happen. You send your kids to private schools. You live in the kind of community where you don't have to deal with assimilating immigrants. So, you can focus on these kinds of ethereal issues, like these abstract dangers Trump poses because of his conviction. And this gap between elite, political and media sectors, on the one hand, and the entire rest of the country on the other, can't really be understated in terms of its importance. 

Historically, it's kind of like the Versailles model when you have the elite completely clustered in certain exclusive places that have nothing in common with the lives of all the other people over whom they think they have a right to rule. You get extreme levels of hatred, justifiable hatred from the ordinary people towards these elites. 

We covered the EU elections last night. That's been the major driving force of anti-establishment sentiment all throughout the West since 2016, with Brexit and Trump and even before that, and certainly since. And the more the elite class sees that ordinary Americans, ordinary citizens, are disobeying them and voting differently than they are instructed, the more contempt the elite class has for those people. And that, in turn, is perceived by the ordinary people, and they then repeal that class even more. That's exactly what's happening. It's the reason why almost all institutions of authority have completely lost the faith and trust of the citizenry they once commanded, and why media institutions and media corporations, in particular, are so intensely and pervasively despised. 

 


 

All right, let me quickly show you, because I've been talking a little bit about the desperation of liberal discourse and the like and how the more liberals start seeing things like this, they start panicking and really start getting extremely desperate. So, first let me show you an interview that Rachel Maddow gave to CNN's Oliver Darcy, the media reporter. I'm sure we can imagine how adversarial that interview was, where CNN's Oliver Darcy interviewed MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. 

Here is part of the exchange that they had. 

 

Oliver Darcy: Trump and his allies are openly talking about weaponizing the government to seek revenge against critics in media and politics, with some of his extremist allies even talking about jailing their fellow Americans. 

 

I absolutely love the irony where liberals say, oh, we have to prevent Trump from getting into office because if he does, he's going to use the Justice Department to prosecute, criminalize and imprison his critics, when that is all liberals have been trying to do to Trump for the last three years. Trump was president for four years and never once did that. The difference, though, is he didn't do it, Democrats are actually doing it. And then, the Oliver Darcy goes on and says:

 

Oliver Darcy: You're one of his most notable critics on television. Are you worried that you could be a target?

 

Rachel Maddow: I'm worried about the country broadly if we put someone in power who is openly avowing that he plans to build camps to hold millions of people, and to "root out" what he’s described in subhuman terms as his "enemy from within." Again, history is helpful here. He’s not joking when he says this stuff, and we’ve seen what happens when people take power proclaiming that kind of agenda.

 

I think there’s a little bit of head-in-the-sand complacency that Trump only intends to go after individual people he has already singled out. Do you really think he plans to stop at well-known liberals?

 

For that matter, what convinces you that these massive camps he’s planning are only for migrants? So, yes, I’m worried about me — but only as much as I’m worried about all of us. (CNN, Oliver Darcy, June 10, 2024)



So, she’s basically saying: I’m one of the most notable people on television who criticizes Trump and even though he had already had four years in office where he didn't do a single thing like any of this – he didn't build concentration camps or gas chambers; he didn't round up his critics and put them in prison; he didn't close newsrooms – now suddenly they say, “No, this time he's really going to do it.” 

They were saying these things all before the 2016 election as well. I think it's very difficult to convince Americans that Trump is a Hitler figure when he was actually just president four years ago and I don't think Americans got the impression that he was doing things that made Hitler, Hitler. 

If you think what Rachel Maddow was saying - that she’s going to be sent to a camp - was deranged, I need you to listen to what Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said yesterday as well, when speaking to Kara Swisher. And listen not only to her words, but also the tone of voice she's employing when saying these things. 

 

(Audio. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Kara Swisher. June 10, 2024)

 

Kara Swisher: What happens to you if Donald Trump wins? What do you do? What's your first […]

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: I mean, it sounds nuts, but like, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy threw me in jail. 

 

Kara Swisher: Really? 

 

“I wouldn't be surprised if this guy threw me in jail.” That was her first answer when she was asked, as a congressman, what's the first thing you would do? And she said, look, I'm probably gonna end up in jail. This guy's going to throw me in jail. That's how important I am and that's how dissident I am. I’m such a threat to establishment power that Trump intends to put me – me, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez – who's basically a glorified social media influencer, into a gulag, a concentration camp. Listen to the rest. 

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: He's out of his mind. I mean, he did his whole first campaign around “lock her up” like this was his motto. 

 

Kara Swisher: But he didn't say that. You know, he said he didn’t say that 

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Right? I take him at his word. I take him at his word. I take him at his word when he says that he's going to round up people. I take him at his word when he threatens journalists. I take him at his word. I feel like what we saw in his first presidency was an amuse-bouche to what his intentions are. He has learned from his mistakes of appointing professionals, and he will not make that mistake next time […] 

 

Amazing that AOC is now saying, oh, in his first term he appointed professionals. Do you think that was what they were saying about Trump's team during that first term in office?

Anyway, it's not even just the utter narcissism and inflated self-importance that Trump is coming to put Rachel Maddow and AOC into concentration camps because they're such grave threats, such brave dissidents, I think they really believe it. It's like a kind of hysteria that they've been feeding on. 

Remember, these people only talk to each other and for each other. They only listen to the same media outlets that repeat all the same things. It's kind of not just a group think or her behavior, it's like a cult where you have this message indoctrinated, drummed into your head, every day, by your colleagues, by the media, by everyone who can provide you with positive rewards or negative rewards that Trump really is this Hitler figure that they start to believe in, even though he was just president four years ago and absolutely none of this happened. He did not put anybody in prison who were his political enemies. These are the people who are trying to put their political enemies into prison, and they've been doing it going all the way back to Trump's candidacy, to his campaign and then to his presidency here. Look at all the people who almost ended up in jail. Michael Flynn, Trump's incoming national security adviser, almost ended up in prison. He was charged and pleaded guilty because he picked up a phone and reached out to his counterpart in the Russian government to try to smooth over relations, exactly what you would expect them to do in the transition. They've been wanting the imprisonment of their political enemies, and they're getting the imprisonment of their political enemies for years, while at the same time they're projecting onto Trump what they themselves are doing. I suppose if you're somebody who really craves the imprisonment of your own political opponents, maybe, I guess you just automatically assume that that's how everybody else thinks as well. 

 

Now, let me just give you this kind of amazing contrast to make this point that I want to underscore. Again, this is where you get a sense of how unhinged, how demented these people are, how maniacal they are, and the kinds of hysterical claims that they're trying to make, knowing that they're seeing the same poll numbers as we just showed you. Nothing is working and so they're getting out of their minds. 

At the end of April, just a couple of months ago, the former Bush-Cheney spokeswoman, Nicole Wallace, who is now a very popular liberal host on MSNBC that has its own interesting dynamic buried within it, but Nicolle Wallace went on the air and while she didn't say she expects Trump to put her in a concentration camp the way AOC and Rachel Maddow did, this is something that, seemingly on the verge of tears, she was so worried about that she warned her audience what might likely happen if Trump were elected. Listen to this. 

 

(Video. Nicolle Wallace. April 29, 2024)

 

Nicolle Wallace: I've seen that toast a bunch of times, but it landed very differently this year because depending on what happens in November, seven months from right now, this time next year, I might not be sitting here. There might not be a White House Correspondents Dinner or free press while our democracy exactly falls apart immediately without it. The real threat looms larger. A candidate with outward disdain, not just for a free press, but for all of our freedoms and the rule of law itself. 

 

First of all, I think it's so funny that in trying to warn people of just how evil and extreme and dangerous Trump is, she said there might not even be a White House Correspondents Dinner. That thing where they all dress up in gowns and pretend that they're at the Oscars and they get to go to the White House. But she is, again, saying, like, I think Trump's going to take me off the air like he's just going to order me off the air. And the reason why I just find that so interesting is because I want you to hear the glee and the joy to the point where Nicolle Wallace was almost cackling in August of 2023 when she talked about how Trump was not only on his way to jail but was being put into one of the most dangerous prisons in the entire country where people have been murdered before, and how gleeful and happy she was. In other words, she's the one who wants to put her political enemies in jail, and I'm going to just leave to the side everything the Bush and Cheney administration did to destroy civil liberties while she was there defending it. Listen to what she said back in 2023, when Trump was on his way to a Georgia jail. 

 

(Video. Nicolle Wallace. August 24, 2023)

 

Nicolle Wallace: Just a few minutes ago, Donald Trump, the disgraced ex-president, the front runner for the Republican nominee for president four times indicted, departed his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. He's en route to Fulton County, Georgia. At Newark Airport, we believe he will surrender himself for processing at an overcrowded jail with a reputation for violence and neglect, a jail that is accustomed to holding defendants facing charges up to and including violent crimes. Stabbings are frequent. Actually, three people have lost their lives over the last month. That jail is where the disgraced ex-president of the United States is heading right now. 

 

I mean, do you see that? Who talks about prison that way? She's so excited. Trump's not just going to prison, but he's going to a prison that's one of the worst, most repressive, most dangerous prisons where people get raped and murdered. She's the one who wants to put her political enemies in prison. 

And she and this crowd are doing that very well. They have nothing to run on. They are behind the candidate. His brain is melting and everyone can see it. They are really spiraling out of control. And we're only in June. Imagine what they're going to be doing in July, August and September if these polling numbers stay the same or even get worse. I just think it's so important to take a step back and realize sometimes – probably most of you don't watch these shows, they're only speaking to like-minded people anyway – but I think it's important to note these are some of the world's largest media corporation, NBC News here, and then CNN, how genuinely detached these people are from reality. Not just how partisan they are, but how hysterical they are. They're spreading a kind of paranoia and sickness into the American body politic out of their desperation that Trump might win. That is really disturbing, not just politically, but psychologically and emotionally. 

 


 

As a final note,  we have some very sad news to report. The legendary journalist and author David Talbot suffered a near-fatal and deeply debilitating stroke yesterday, leaving him entirely unable to write, to speak, or even to really minimally function. It's perhaps a permanent state of debilitation. 

I first got to know David Talbot because he was the founder of Salon.com, which I know it's hard to believe but was actually a truly innovative and interesting online journal at the time that he founded it, back in 1998. One of the very first, if not the first, online political journals on the Internet. Writing at Salon, in 2007, was actually the first journalism job I ever had. It was the first place that hired me after I was writing up my blog and I got to know him somewhat. Then he was not really at Salon so much, but he was still the founder and so I got to know him, really liked him, and respected him. 

But even more importantly for me, Talbot is the author of what I really regard, as I've said many, many times, as the single best and most important history of the U.S. Security State in the post-World War II era. 

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“The Devil's Chessboard Allen Dulles, the C.I.A. and the Rise of America's Secret Government” does describe how our democracy ended up with this permanent faction of a secret government within our government that has no accountability. This book was incredibly influential in my understanding of how our democracy ended up being saddled with those kinds of people, and that kind of agency. It is a book I have highly recommended many times on this show, on our Locals program and in my personal life, because I really believe that it's vital reading.

We had David Talbot on our show in November of last year, and the interview was every bit as illuminating, as I expected it to be. We have a short video that I just want to show you, mostly to honor David Talbot, but also to, again, encourage you to really get this book if you haven't yet read it.

 

 (Video. System Update 175. November 2023)

 

David Talbot: […] One of the taboo topics in this country, in the United States, is the assassination of President Kennedy, which happened almost sixty years ago. Still, at this late date, the media refuses to, I think, seriously consider the possibility that elements of the U.S. government killed the president. 

Now, why do I think the killing and the cover-up were organized by Allen Dulles? And by the way, I have a long chapter in my book called “The Power Elite”. Allen Dulles would never have acted on his own against the president […]

 

I should say the main topic of his book is not the JFK assassination. He traces the unbelievable and secret power exercised by the Dulles brothers, Allen Dulles, who was the head of the CIA until John Kennedy fired him over the Bay of Pigs invasion, and his brother, John Foster Dulles, who served as Secretary of State under President Eisenhower. And those two brothers basically ran American foreign policy, but in secret. And then Talbot is sort of taking that proven history and using it to apply it to and question what happened with JFK. Obviously, Allen Dulles hated JFK who fired him. And here's what he had to say. 

 

David Talbot: […] Allen Dulles would never have acted on his own against the president  – whom he despised. He always acted on behalf of his wealthy and powerful clients. And I believe that Allen Dulles was not alone in doing this, that he was backed by people who are very powerful in the national security state and on Wall Street where he'd spent most of his career. So, Allen Dulles was head of the CIA and he was, as you say, fired by President Kennedy after the disastrous invasion of Cuba in April 1961. He was given a medal by President Kennedy and was ushered honorably out the door. But he despised the president for firing him. He couldn't believe that this young, untested president had the temerity to fire someone as senior as him, someone as powerful as him. I believe that he turned his house in Georgetown, the neighborhood in Washington, into an anti-Kennedy operation. High-level CIA operatives and deputies continued to report to Allen Dulles in the months and years after his firing, including James Angleton and Richard Helms, who later became head of the agency. I think John McCone, who was put in charge of the agency by President Kennedy, was a figurehead. He didn't know what was going on. The people who really understood how the CIA operated were still in charge. Allen Dulles was still in charge – and his deputies.

 

And, of course, he goes on to explain the amazing fact that when it was time to form the Warren Commission to investigate what happened with JFK's assassination, one of the people who was put on the commission was Allen Dulles, even though a lot of people at the time were wondering whether the CIA was involved, given the CIA is incredibly powerful. History now. Talbot admitted in this part of the interview, but also in that last chapter of his book on the JFK assassination, that this was not proven, but he was given informed speculation. But the really valuable part of the book that is not in any way speculative is the way in which the CIA began as this relatively small and limited part of our government but, like all agencies that have unaccountable power, it grew and grew and grew and grew leading Dwight Eisenhower on his way out to warn of the unaccountable and growing power of the military-industrial complex. And this was before the Vietnam War, before the War on Terror, before all the wars of the last 10, 15 years, or so. When you read this book, you’ll really understand how this part of the government not only formed but grew to the point where nobody controlled it. 

Despite that work, David Talbot lived until the stroke with a very modest income. He was the sole provider for his family. They're navigating an extremely difficult time emotionally and also financially. 

There is a GoFundMe page that has been set up by his family entitled Help David Talbot after a severe stroke. It talks about the financial difficulties they are now facing including housing and even some uncovered medical costs.

If you can donate, a modest donation, that will obviously be of great help to David Talbot and his family, the link to that GoFundMe page will be at the bottom of the notes to our show. We wish him and his family the fastest and most complete recovery possible. 

 

So, that concludes our show for this evening. 

 

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I am again on the road, specifically in New York City, in a hotel room, as I will be participating in a debate tomorrow night, hosted by the Soho Forum and Reason Magazine, regarding the constitutionality of President Trump's various deportation policies and other related questions. 

I have a lot I want to talk about, beginning with the decision and announcement by President Trump to basically, at least the moment, federalize the Police Department of Washington, D.C., as well as activate the National Guard to patrol the streets of Washington in response to what President Trump says is a serious out of control, crime epidemic. We'll look at both the legality and constitutionality of that decision and some of its implications. 

Also, again, every time we say that we don't think that there's any way for Israel to go any lower, for them to engage in any more horrific atrocities, they somehow do seem to find a way. Last night, they slaughtered five Al Jazeera journalists, including, arguably, the Al Jazeera journalist who has become the eyes and ears of Gaza for most of the time in all of the West; Anas al-Sharif was killed alongside four other journalists. This is now the 278th journalist that the Israelis have slaughtered in Gaza. Israel admits that it was a targeted killing, that they killed him on purpose and the Israeli claim, needless to say, I don't even need to tell you it's so predictable, is that, “Oh, he was Hamas,” and so therefore they were justified in killing him. 

Earlier today, another equally influential and prominent journalist had his house targeted with an Israeli bomb. It didn't kill the journalist, but it killed 10 members of his family. And then when rescue workers came to try to salvage those who were among the survivors, they bombed again, what's called a double tap, and they killed even more people. We have a horrific video of that. It really has gotten to the point where the contempt, the repulsion and condemnation that all decent people around the world have are insufficient for the magnitude of the atrocities. 

Of course, the U.S. government and both parties continue to support it. We'll have a clip from JD Vance for an interview that he gave on Fox News earlier today where he was asked about what he thinks of the Israeli plan to occupy all of Gaza, which, needless to say, has already resulted and will continue to result in even more killing of innocent people at a far more indiscriminate rate. We also have a response from Pete Buttigieg, who was once the mayor of South Bend, Indiana, and somehow parlayed that into a position as Secretary of Transportation under Joe Biden. He was asked about Israel on the Pod Save America podcast and gave the sort of technocratic, meaningless, mealy-mouthed, noncommittal, frightened response that has caused even Democratic Party partisans, let alone everybody else, to absolutely despise Democrats, not even for ideology, just because of their complete cowardice as for ever take a position or say anything whatsoever. He's a McKinsey consultant and that's exactly how he talks about everything: completely dead-eyed, passion-free, afraid to take any position on anything. 

There’s a lot to talk about. 

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Glenn Takes Your Questions on Tucker/Candace v. Nick Fuentes, the Unabomber Manifesto, Independent Media, and More
System Update #500

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Welcome to episode 500 of System Update, which means that over the last two years, ever since we launched in December of 2022, 500 times I have sat my ass in this chair, and we have done a program for you. Today is number 500. 

System Update, of course, is our live nightly show that airs every Monday through Friday at 7 p.m. Eastern, exclusively here on Rumble, the free speech alternative to YouTube. 

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Every Friday night, as we're doing tonight, we take questions solely from our Locals members. We try to answer as many as we can.

 You may have noticed as well that, inspired by Donald Trump, all art today in commemoration of 500 shows is in gold, not our typical green and black. No, everything is gold. We went all out for tonight. So, I really hope you enjoy it.

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The first of which is from @alan_smithee. And he asked this:

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One of the reasons why I didn't talk about it, despite obviously being extremely interested in all three of them and the subject matter that they cover, I obviously am a longtime friend of Tucker’s. I used to be on the show, I think more than anybody else, when he was on Fox News, and now, on his podcast, I'm on frequently, maybe the guest who's been on the most as well, not really sure. It's not a competition. I don't know why I have to keep saying I'm at the top of the charts, but just to indicate the frequency, and he's been on our show before. So, I definitely consider him a friend of mine. Candace, I have a good relationship; I would describe it as friendly. I've chatted with Nick over the years a little bit, certainly not near the same level of interaction. 

I had this issue with Matt Taibbi. I was recently on Briahna Joy Gray's show, but also, I might have even been on a different show, where people were trying to ask me about Matt Taibbi and some of the criticism of him. Yeah, we've gotten questions about Matt Taibbi here as well over the past few months about things like his refusal to comment on Israel and Gaza, his infrequent commentary on the First Amendment issues raised by deporting students who speak critically of Gaza, the imposition of hate speech codes on American campuses by the Trump administration to shield Israel from criticism. 

I'm very honest about the fact that when someone is your friend, when you consider someone as your friend, at least for me, I really don't feel comfortable publicly criticizing them. It's actually one of the reasons why I go out of my way not to be friends or have any social ties with the people I'm supposed to be covering in Washington – politicians, major journalists. I've always thought the fact that I don't live in New York or Washington to be one of the greatest benefits for my journalism because I'm not in the middle of their social scenes. I don’t owe any social niceties to them. I don't feel as though if I criticize them, it's going to affect my social life or put me in uncomfortable positions. I take the obligation of friendship seriously. If you're actually somebody's friend, it comes with loyalty, and part of that loyalty is that, if you have problems with what they do and say, you go to them privately. It would take a lot for me to publicly criticize or down someone I consider my friend.

 I'm just being honest about that. Maybe that's not even the right thing to do. I'm not praising myself. I'm telling you how I feel personally. But again, I think if you live in New York, if you live in Washington, and you're integrated into that political media world, that is one of the reasons why it's so incestuous, why they constantly cover for each other, why there's so much groupthink within it. 

They're always talking to each other, for each order. To be part of these social scenes on which they depend, you have to be welcome. Part of being welcome is that you don't stray too far from their dogma. And I've always aggressively kept a very distant arm's length from people in positions of power, from major media figures, so that I don't feel constrained about giving my honest views or critiques or analysis or reporting on them. 

Occasionally, you do become friends with people almost by accident, who then end up in positions of power. Tulsi Gabbard is a good example. I have no problem criticizing Tulsi Gabbard because, whatever good relations I've had with her before, she's now the director of National Intelligence, and I'm not going to pull punches when I have critiques of Tulsi and I am also going to praise her only because I feel the praise is warranted. 

So, sometimes you just have to accept the fact that somebody has risen to a particular position or entered a type of power position, and there's just no getting around the fact that your job requires honest critique. I don't feel like that's the case for any of the people involved here, Tucker, Candace, or Nick Fuentes. I don't feel like any of them is a government official. Obviously, they all do have a great deal of influence in very different ways. So, I don't want to side with any one of them, nor do I want to necessarily say that I think insults or criticisms that they've launched at each other are warranted, but it is an extremely important conversation, so I also don't want to avoid it entirely, because for one thing these are three people, and obviously people understand how influential Tucker and Candace are. They're arguably the two most prominent conservative journalists/pundits, influencers. Maybe you could put Charlie Kirk in there, maybe Ben Shapiro, but Tucker and Candace are both bigger. I mean, Tucker hosted the most-watched show in the history of cable news for five years at the 8 o'clock spot on Fox. He's been on TV for 25 years before that. And Candace is just a powerhouse. She's a force of nature. Whatever you think of her, whatever you think of the Macron stuff, whatever you're thinking for Israel stuff, whatever, I'm leaving that on the side, I'm just saying. 

The fact of the matter is that when Candace left The Daily Wire, which, of course, is founded and run by Ben Shapiro after she had a falling out with Ben Shapiro and Jeremy Boreing, the other co-founder, over her criticism of Israel, which at the time was very mild – she was basically saying, “I don't think we should be bombing and killing children.” – that was pretty much the extent of it which caused this massive upheaval. A lot of people wondered, well, what is she going to do? Just like people wondered what Tucker Carlson was going to do, and they both went on to become, in my view, far more influential. 

I'm not saying that Tucker's position in the mediocre system now is necessarily larger than it is at the 8 o'clock spot on Fox News, but being at the 8 o'clock hour on Fox News comes with a lot of constraints, as he found out when he got fired, despite being the highest rated host on all of cable news. And he's completely liberated of those constraints now, I mean, completely. Completely. He's financially set. Fox is still paying this gigantic contract. He also now has a very successful platform. I mean, he's not worried about saying or doing whatever he wants. I know he feels – he said this before, publicly, not just in our conversations – that there were a lot of things he did as part of his career that he deeply regrets. Just being part of the Washington Group. 

I think he was raised there. I mean, he wasn't raised physically in Washington, but he eventually went there. But his father was very integrated into the U.S. deep state, that we could call it, ties to the CIA, he ran the propaganda arm of the U.S. government, Voice of America, was very, very integrated into that world. He grew up with a lot of wealth and privileges as he will tell you, and so when he got to Washington and got on TV very early on, he really was just immersed in this subculture that led him to believe, or at least not even necessarily to believe but to say a lot of things that he didn't really fully believe, or maybe that you can get yourself to believe things that you don't really believe because you just feel like it's what everyone around you expects you to say. 

Unlike a lot of people who are guilty of the same thing, Tucker has probably more than anybody else been extremely candid about what he regrets, and not only what he regrets, I'm not just talking about support for the Iraq war, I'm talking about the whole support that he gave for George Bush, Dick Cheney, neoconservative ideology, and not just on foreign policy, but also on economic policy and I think it's often overlooked. Everyone sees his head in foreign policies. Even when he was at Fox, he was criticizing Trump for doing things like assassinating General Soleimani, saying, “This is not in our interest. This might be in the interest of neocons or Israel, but why would we risk a war with Iran when that's not in our interest?” He was saying things like that even on Fox. He probably was the single most influential figure who took a lot of MAGA people, a lot of people on the right, and turned them against the war in Ukraine every night. 

I was on his show dozens of times talking about that war to the point where when he got fired from Fox, a bunch of Republican lawmakers ran to Politico or Axios anonymously and celebrated his firing and saying, “Oh, now our lives are going to be much easier. We can now fund the war in Ukraine without as much public pushback.” And that trajectory was because not just that he regretted what he had previously advocated and acknowledged his wrongdoing, but he was and is really determined to kind of repent for it. And he feels like the way to repent for it is by never again allowing himself to be blind. 

He moved out of Washington, used to live in the middle of Georgetown, where Victoria Nuland lived, I think, down the street or the other street. I mean, that's where they all lived. Now, he lives in rural Maine. He also lives on an island in Florida. He purposely took himself to very isolated places that are completely detached from that world, for the same reason as I was just describing. Not only do you feel less constrained, but you see things more clearly. You don't wake up every day and immediately get surrounded by people who are just part of this blob of groupthink and so, you're able to analyze things from a distance. It’s sort of like if you go into a big city and you're on a street corner, the vision that you have of what the city looks like is radically different than if you fly over it because that distance from what you're looking at gives you a better perspective, or at least, maybe not even better, but different. And the same thing happens when you move out of Washington or New York, and you purposely stay away from it, you start to see things more clearly because you're not immersed in it. And I do find that extremely valuable. 

I find that trajectory very, very positive. It's one of the reasons why, probably more than anything else that I've ever done, what caused much of the left turn against me, not all, but much, was number one, my refusal to get on board with Russiagate, but number two, my association with Tucker. I saw early on that there was a real movement within parts of the populist right, which you're now seeing in lots of different ways, not just questioning Israel and foreign policy and war, but also corporatism and the idea of economic populism. And yes, there are lots of deviations from it, but I mean Tucker and a few others were what made me see how real that was and how much of an opportunity there was, and not just to keep yourself in prison in the Democratic Party. 

So, I do believe Tucker's trajectory is real. I do believe that he's sincere and genuine in what he's saying. You never know what's fully in a person's heart, not even your own heart. You can't know for certain. You can deceive yourself about your own motives, your own thoughts and even the people you're closest to, your friends. But I have enough confidence in how well I know him, not just professionally, but personally as well, the time we spent together, the time that we've talked, that I do believe that he's very authentic in what he's saying. I think his trajectory is continuing. I don't think he's stopped at the point where he's going to be. And I think it's been very positive on almost every level. 

So that’s Tucker over here; then let's kind of put Candace in a similar position. I don't know Candace as well, so I can't comment to that degree of confidence about who she is and why she's doing what she's doing, but, two years ago, Candace worked at The Daily Wire, four years ago, she was in Jerusalem with Charlie Kirk celebrating Trump's move of the capital of Israel to Jerusalem, a long-time pipe dream, what seemed like a pipe dream of the furthest, most radicalized Greater Israel fanatics and their supporters in the United States. And there was very little criticism coming from Candace about Israel. In fact, the opposite was true. 

In her case, she's a lot younger than Tucker, she's only been around for not all that long, and I know personally that when you start off doing this work and you're able to spend full time digging into things, if you're minimally a critical thinker, if you're minimally open-minded, your views are going to morph the more you learn, the more you dive into things, the more you experience things. That is healthy and normal. And I do believe that her views, which she most passionately expresses, to which she pays the most attention, are genuine, which isn't the same thing as saying I agree with them all and they're all positive. I'm just saying I believe she also believes the things she's saying. I don't think it's calculated. I don't think it's about grifting. If it were, she could have stayed at The Daily Wire. There are easier ways to make a popular path than doing what she does. 

She defends Harvey Weinstein. She took up that case. There was hardly a public clamoring for that, especially among the audience that she cultivated. Also, the Macron stuff, all the stuff with Israel – she's been excluded from a lot of mainstream corporate media circles to which she used to have complete access and in which she could have risen without limits, obviously She’s very talented, like Tucker, she is a communicator, and she chose a much harder path, and I think that was through genuine conviction. There are many differences between Tucker and Candace, but for that purpose, you can put them together. 

And then you have Nick Fuentes. And just for those of you who haven't seen it, I'm just going to give you this summary of what's happened in the past few months, not going back years. The short version of this is that Nick Fuentes is often very critical of people who seem like they're the closest to him politically. So, he spends a lot of time criticizing Charlie Kirk – I was going to say Ben Shapiro, but I don't think Ben Shapiro is remotely close to Nick Fuentes – but Charlie Kirk on the surface could be. He spent a lot of time criticizing Matt Walsh. And he has also hurled a lot of criticism and might even say insults toward Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson. 

In response, Candace Owens invited him for the first time on her podcast. Although I do think they have far more views in common than differences, the podcast was a bit hostile. I would say it's, in part, because Candace had some acrimonious points to raise with him, but also because – and she played some of these clips, I mean, Nick Fuentes had very harshly attacked her and criticized her, calling her a bitch who doesn't know what she's doing, and if you're going to do that, the people who are your targets are not necessarily going to love you, and so this was really the triggering event. 

She invited him to her podcast. He got a huge audience – between Candace and Nick Fuentes, who has a gigantic following online, in some ways you could argue he's as influential these days as Candace and Tucker, and maybe headed for even surpassing them, which again, generationally is natural – but because that interview was acrimonious and brought out a lot of tensions and personal conflicts, it kind of spilled over online because Nick left that interview and started really condemning Candace, accusing her of sandbagging him in the interview and the like, and then they had a big fight online. 

And then, before you knew it, Tucker asked Candace to come to his podcast. So, you're now talking about Candace Owens on Tucker Carlson's podcast, obviously a gigantic interview. And both of them, I don't know if they planned it, but both of them talked about Nick Fuentes in an extremely derogatory way. I mean, Tucker did acknowledge that, which you cannot deny. It's kind of like you can hate Trump all you want, but there's no denying his charisma, his skill in communicating, and the fact that he's very funny. 

For a long time, it was like heresy to say that, but there's no denying that that's true. I have no trouble admitting that people I can't stand are smart. I think Dick Cheney is very smart. I actually think Liz Cheney is very smart, just to give two examples, a lot of other ones as well. You can acknowledge the skills and assets that people have who you dislike or even despise. It’s not inconsistent. So, Tucker did acknowledge, like, look, Nick Fuentes is spectacularly talented. He is like a very rare, generational talent in terms of his ability to go before the camera, attract attention and be charismatic. But he's not like a ranter and a raver. Nick Fuentes is very well read, very, very informed. There aren't a lot of people who know more about the topics Nick Fuentes covers than Nick Fuentes does. It's very impressive. And that combination of being very charismatic, an extremely adept communicator, just kind of a natural camera presence, and having really smart insights that are grounded not in sensationalism or blind ideology, but lots of reading and thinking and critical evaluation, it's very potent. That's the reason why he's becoming so popular that even people at the heights of Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson can't really ignore it anymore. 

They talked about Nick Fuentes as though he were just sort of some loser, like Tucker was saying, like, “How did he become so influential? He was just this gay kid living in his mother's basement in Chicago.” And I don't think Tucker quite meant it that way, but that is how some of it came off. Both agreed that he was some sort of psyop to destroy the right, that he maybe was a Fed working for the CIA. 

That led Nick to do a series of shows, a couple of segments, where he just tore into Tucker and Candace, particularly Tucker, in a way that suggests that he was: “How can you possibly call me this, Psyop, or this operative, or this person who works for the CIA, when you spent your whole life inside these circles? Candace Owens was the one working for Ben Shapiro, and Tucker Carlson was working for Rupert Murdoch, making millions; Nick Fuentes wasn't. 

Nick's basic point was, like, you’re all very late to this game, like criticizing Israel, talking about the influence of the Israel lobby in the United States. You've only started doing this last year, whereas I've been doing it for years. This is what I think is at the heart of the matter: there are people who have been talking about Israel in this way for a long time. Noam Chomsky did, Norman Finkelstein did. 

One of the most important events was in 2007 when two of the most prestigious political scientists and international relations scholars in the United States, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, wrote a book called “The Israel Lobby.” First, it was an essay in the London Review of Books, and then it turned into this massive tome, this 700-page book. It’s footnoted to the hilt because they're scholars, and they wrote the book that way. At the time, nobody on the mainstream was willing to say that. It was pretty much confined to the left, where you were free to say it. 

So, at the time, I was more associated with the left, perceived as being on the left. So, I was saying all these things for many years, but it wasn't all that risky for me because of the political camp that people perceived that I was in. I've always had one foot in that left-wing camp back then and one foot in the kind of libertarian, more independent camp, but in both of those camps it was totally fine, totally even welcome to talk about why we do so much for Israel, the evils of Israel, how they control our politics, how we go to war for them, how much money we spend to support them. 

So, I wasn't taking any risks – I've taken risks in my career, but I don't consider that as one – but Nick Fuentes, when he started doing it, was 18 years old, and he had this very promising future inside conservative media. At 18, he'd already been spotted as a talent. He had small shows, but he was making connections with and networking with some of the people who were very influential inside corporate media. People now forget, because now there's a lot of space for talking this way about Israel, but at the time, there was basically none. 

Before Donald Trump, there was almost nobody on the right willing to talk this way about Israel. You had Pat Buchanan, who did it for a long time, going back to the ‘80s, and he was viciously smeared as an anti-Semite. You had Ron Paul, who did the same thing. And then you had Trump kind of come in and create this space, and Nick Fuentes started really looking into it. I'm going into this not because of the personalities, but because I think they raise very broader issues about how all of this has evolved, not just for them, but for the broader discourse. 

Fuentes started off in conservative politics. At first, he thought Israel was our greatest ally and we have to support them: all the standard Republican and conservative views that have dominated both Republican and Democratic Party politics for decades. But then, the more he started questioning it, the more he started becoming vocal about it. And the more he became vocal about it, the more he became shunned inside the conservative media world, in which he had a very bright future. And rather than shutting up, as he was told to do, knowing that that might be better for his career, he couldn't. He just doesn't have that personality type. And he just had to keep examining it and keep saying it, and to say that Nick Fuentes paid a price for that is an understatement. Nick Fuentes has been excluded and booted out of every conceivable precinct of conservative media, even ones that consider themselves radical, dissident and far-right ones. I was playing on the mainstream ones. 

He was physically banned from going to Charlie Kirk's “Turning Points USA” and lots of other conferences like that. He was fired from the media platforms he was starting to develop. He was shunned by the friends that he had made, younger people on the side of the conservative movement. Then, it escalated from there. He got banned from almost every social media platform, including X. Elon Musk eventually reinstated him once he bought X, where he now is, but the only platform where he could be was Telegram. Now, he's on Rumble because Rumble is a genuine free speech platform. He has a show on Rumble that he does, I think, every night or four nights a week, and has found a good-sized audience. But really, it was on Twitter that he got his most attention, and that's why they banned him from Twitter in the pre-Musk era. But it wasn't just that. 

He wasn't just silenced and banned throughout all social media; he was also debanked. He had bank accounts closed, because of his political views, by major banks in the United States. He would get rejected for banking applications. He was put on a No-Fly list, which is the first time I really spoke about Nick, when I raised serious concerns about No-Fly lists being used in this way. His career has been severely impeded, not from what people believe are his racist views about Black people or immigrants; tons of people have those views and are perfectly welcome and fine in right-wing circles. The sole cause of it was his opposition to Israel and his questioning of the power of the Jewish lobby to keep the United States subservient to Israel. It just wasn't said. It was just a taboo. It was one of the third rails of American political discourse that would get anybody fired or destroyed for talking about it. 

Now, a lot of people talk about it, and it's become almost mainstream, but back then, especially on the right, almost nobody did. He paid a huge price, personally, financially, for his career, for his reputation, for his friendships, for his ability to get bank accounts. The government even put him on a no-fly list. And then last year, let's not forget, a homicidal maniac came to his house to try to murder him; shot two of his neighbors and killed them, and showed up at his house with a very large automatic weapon. This person eventually ended up being killed by the police. Another woman showed up at his house, a crazy liberal woman whom he had to pepper-spray. So, he's paid a big price for this. 

I don't want to speak for him, but I definitely identify with this mindset. I've had it too, sometimes, which is that if you are the first person or one of the first people to kind of get out on that plank and you're taking the shots because of it and very few other people are willing to join you,  and then at some point, it becomes a little safer to do it – I'm not saying it's safe; Tucker has also paid a price for it. I mean, half his audience has turned on him. He's now widely attacked by conservatives as being an anti-Semite, a Qatari agent, and Candace as well. So, it's not cost-free at all and Tucker didn't have to do it. He could have just ignored it. So, he's paid for a place too. 

But there's a big difference between Tucker Carlson in his mid-50s with a gigantic multimillion-dollar-year contract with Fox News, coming from the family that he came from, versus Nick Fuentes as a 22-year-old enduring all of that, and he comes from no wealth, no privilege. I think the idea is Nick feels like he was out on that plank, taking all these arrows and punishments, and then, in part, I do think that he helped open the space on the right to start talking more about Israel in a more honest way. It is true that Tucker and Candace, for the most part, hadn't really ever talked about it until after October 7, when, as Nick says, it almost became inevitable. They could have both ignored it. They could've both just spouted a few light lip services to it, but both of them made it very central to their cause, which they didn't have to do. It was not in their interest to do as well. But they did do it. 

But I think he feels like, I'm the one who actually paid the price for this. I was the one who was doing this earlier. Then the two of you come and now start doing it when it's a little bit safer, and also you're more protected because of your platform and standing in wealth, and you want to basically throw me in the garbage and declare me off limits, like, be the gatekeeper that says, you can go up to this point where Tucker and Candace are, but you can't go to Nick Fuentes; he's way too hateful or radical or dangerous or whatever. He feels like they're very late to the game, that he was braver, that he paid a bigger price and then they came along at an easier time and decided that they were the outer limits of where you can go on these discussions about Israel and the like. I'm not saying that's what I think, I'm saying that's what he thinks. I identify with that view. 

I think he would be fine if they would get there and say Nick Fuentes is one of the first people doing this, let's welcome him on our show. But the fact that he's still excluded, to the fact that they called him gay, loser, basically, in his parents' basement, implied that he was working for the CIA or was an agent, probably of Qatar, to destroy the right. I think that's what made him start being resentful, and also, there is this class issue here, which is very real. It's not his fault; Tucker's mother left them when he was very young. Then his father married an heiress from the Swanson fortune. And although she wasn't his mother. It was his stepmother. Obviously, he was living with his father and his stepmother, and they had a very good relationship. She was very good to him. And he ended up having all these benefits from a very young age. First, great wealth and privilege, and then some amount of fame, and then more fame, and then more wealth. And that's more or less been his life. 

Candace, I'm not sure about where she came from, what her family situation was, but once she got very big, she became very wealthy, and then she went to work for The Daily Wire, had a very lucrative contract there, and now she's married to, I heard Nick saying he's British royalty. I don't know if he is, maybe he is. I don't know one way or the other, but I know he's extremely wealthy. And I think there's a class issue there, too, which is like, you two purport to be the kind of warriors for this group of which you're not a part, which has kind of disaffected working-class white people. And Nick's saying, “I actually came from there and now suddenly you two, from your great mountain of wealth and privilege and lifelong or at least in Candace's case, years long, financial power and privilege and status and wealth, whatever, are coming in and trying to talk about me like I'm some loser and yeah I'm a loser in the sense that lots of white people have become trampled on by the United States and that is supposed to be what right-wing populism cares about.” 

So, I thought it was very telling. I do think, if I’m totally honest, it's more personal than substantive. I think Nick feels a lot of resentment for how he's been treated. 

I think Candace and Tucker feel resentment that they put a lot on the line to go where they went and one of the people who has a big influential audience, especially among young conservatives, have kind of gone to war with them. So, I think there's a lot of personal animist and personal resentment driving this, but there's also something very substantive here as well, which is about how people who are a little bit further along on the extremist train sometimes get attacked by the people who are less so, where they want to draw a line and kind of cut off the plank and have you fall off, even though you are on the plank first. I think Nick feels like that's being done to him, and I also think that there is a real class conflict that is driving a lot of this which is very much a part of the conservative world. I mean, huge amounts of conservative influencers, conservative pundits, conservative operatives who claim that they're there to speak for the working-class, for disaffected white people in the United States, are hanging out with billionaires every day and being funded by billionaires and meeting with billionaires and getting invites to the White House and to every center of power. And a lot of compromises are required to do that. And Nick's not willing to make them, and a lot of them are, and that is a substantive issue as well. 

Tucker and Candace, I do think, and they don't get very many invites to those circles. Tucker more than Candace. Tucker because he's been around for so long. He's good friends with people in the Trump administration. He campaigned for Trump, Trump likes him, even though Trump repudiated him and insulted him because of his opposition to the war in Iran. But there are a lot of tension points inside the MAGA movement that are very real, even if some of them are personally driven. We're human beings, we all harbor jealousies and vindictive sentiments and resentments. It's a Herculean effort to try to exclude those as much as possible. We all have to try; some of us do better than others. But none of us is immune from that. So, I'm not suggesting that it's a huge character flaw. I'm just saying I do think that's part of it. But I also think, at least as big of a part, if not bigger, are some of these ideological and class issues who's sort of keeping one foot in decent society and who's willing to say fully what they think without it. And the last thing I'll say is, and this is sort of what I began by saying, which is you can like somebody or not, but it doesn't mean you should lie about their skills or their successes. 

Nick Fuentes, I had a big online following for a few years, but it was very much a kind of online following that was almost like a cult following. It was like a very idiosyncratic group of people. They called themselves the Gropers. They didn't have a lot of cachet or influence outside of their circles, in part because Nick Fuentes wasn't invited anywhere into those more mainstream circles, or even less mainstream far-right circles. He kind of built his entire world himself. 

There are tons of successful podcasters and influencers who really don't have an original thought. They know what they have to get up and say to validate their audience, to show their loyalty to a particular circle. They may even have some talent in terms of rhetoric and communication, some charisma, but they're not very critically minded. They don't do a lot of reading. I can't tell you how often I listen to some of the podcasters of the biggest audience, and you're just like: How are you so ignorant? How do you think about these things? Do you ever stop and breathe and reflect, or read anything? Like read anything substantive in or bound like a Wikipedia page? So, there's a lot of that. 

But go listen to Nick Fuentes, if you haven't. And if you have preconceptions about what he is, I'm not saying that he doesn't say things that are provocative and deliberately cross lines on purpose sometimes, when he doesn't need to, just to cross them. Though I do think it's often purposeful, it's not just about a teenage transgressive instinct. 

So, there are definitely things he said that are offensive. Genuinely so, and not offensive in that, oh my god, you've offended me. But things that I think he would even acknowledge, he often says he doesn't really mean it, he is prone to rhetorical excess, and it's part of the whole presence. But everything that he talks about, he is extremely knowledgeable about and well-versed in. 

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Next question is from @edonk77, who says this:

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All right, the quick Ted Kaczynski story just for anyone who doesn't know it: out of nowhere in the ‘90s, in the Clinton administration, bombs started being sent to mailboxes. They were pretty sophisticated bombs, and they injured and even killed people. It was taking place across the country, and the FBI, the Attorney General, who at the time was Janet Reno, had no idea who was doing it. 

The person who was doing it wrote a letter, believed by the New York Times and the Washington Post, saying, “I will stop if you publish my essay about my ideas and what's motivating me.” And obviously, the instinct of the government is to say, “We’re not going to give in to your terrorist tactics,” which in classic terrorism is kind of what it was: it was violence directed at civilians to induce political and social change.  But it got to the point where the Justice Department was so desperate, they didn't have a first clue about who was doing that. It was like really the perfect crime. They agreed.

So, the Washington Post, maybe the New York Times, too, published this essay by Ted Kaczynski. The reason the Justice Department was willing to do it, aside from the fact that they thought it would help identify who it was, was because they thought what he had written was kind of just such lunacy, madness, that nobody would really read it and even think it deserved attention. And also, they were obviously made it known that the person who wrote that was the person who was sending these violent acts, the terrorist bombs, killing civilians or injuring civilians. They just assumed the hatred for him would overwhelm any interest in what he had to say. 

On one of those bets, they actually turned out to be right, because publishing this essay caused, eventually, Ted Kaczynski's brother, to come forward and say, “I think this is my brother. His writing seems familiar. His ideas are familiar.” That's how they were able to eventually track Ted Kaczynski down. 

Ted Kaczynski was a prodigy, recognized by everybody, as being brilliant – graduated high school at the age of 15, went to Harvard, completed a degree in mathematics. He then went to a PhD program, I think at the University of Chicago, at a top school, and then ended up teaching at Berkeley. And he was on the path of being the youngest ever tenured professor. He was a genuinely brilliant person, not brilliant in the sense that David Frum or Ann Abelbaum gets called brilliant, but genuinely brilliant. 

But what they were very wrong about was the fact that nobody would have any interest in his essay, that nobody would connect to any of his ideas, and that the hatred for Ted Kaczynski, even if people were willing to be open-minded, would make people refuse to read a terrorist essay and take it seriously. At first, that was true, but over time, people started turning to it and saying, “You know what? This seems quite important. There are a lot of ideas here that are very, very relevant and seem prophetic and explain a lot of what previously had been inexplicable.” 

I can't do a good job paraphrasing or summarizing the essay. It's very complex. It's highly worth reading. You can find it free online. It ended up being published in a longer-form, book format. You can read the essay in its long form or the book. But the basic theme of it was that technology was destroying humanity and the ability for human beings to live happy and fulfilled lives. And he traced it back to the Industrial Revolution, but then, how technology has advanced more and more. Before the Industrial Revolution, people were living in small towns, in villages, in nature like they had always lived on farms, had churches, had communities. They were very closely connected to their neighbors, to their extended family and they were living as human beings had lived for thousands of years. We're political and social animals. We need a connection. Without connection, human beings are going to go crazy. 

Eventually, we got to the point Charles Dickens was talking about: the hideous realities of living in gigantic cities as factory workers, completely exploited, working extremely long days for little pay. It is breaking people physically, spiritually, psychologically and emotionally, and that is definitely one of the costs, as we've even gone further down this road. 

And I think it's what Ted Kaczynski predicted, which is that the more technologically we come, the less human, the less fulfilled our natural human needs are. What it means to be human will be consumed by technology and turned into even more exploited tools and objects that barely look at us as humans, arranging our lives so that everything that gives us pleasure and is necessary for happiness is taken away. 

And just quickly on this, there's a Netflix documentary, I've mentioned this before, called “Happiness,” which is a documentary designed to ask, what is human happiness? How do humans acquire happiness? What is necessary and what isn't? And what they found is that a lot of what data reflects is that in many societies where people are economically deprived and without a lot of technology, they're much happier than in much wealthier Western countries. 

This documentary makes a very good case using science, not just pop psychology, about why, oftentimes, technological expansion and wealth expansion undermine human happiness. Ted Kaczynski also warned that, as technology evolved further and further, our societies are less humane, less fulfilling and less connected. And clearly, all of that is true. That is exactly what has happened. I'm not saying we need to dismantle it, but he actually lived those words, he dropped out of the whole matrix basically, when he was, I think 24, left his job as a faculty member and just went into the woods, lived a self-sufficient life off the grid, read, wrote, and did not much else other than working on his writing and his development and thoughts. The more he did that, the more he became convinced that being in the middle of this matrix was uniquely devastating to the ability of humans to be free and happy. 

Of course, that started resonating in America and in Europe and throughout the Western world as people became less and less happy. All the things he was describing as to why, and the role technology plays in that, would obviously exacerbate all that. Remember, this was 1995. I mean, the internet was just starting, but it was nowhere near as dominant in our lives. 

Obviously, with the internet, we often talk to people on phones or on screens. We have our phones everywhere. So, a lot of the human connection and interactivity you once had just walking on the street is now taken away from you because everybody's staring at their phones. You go to restaurants, any restaurant anywhere in the Western world, and you have people who are related, people who are friends, who talk a little, and they both pull out their phones. And before you know it, they're both staring at their phones, and especially with COVID, which forcibly segregated everybody and kept everybody at home, where people even developed a greater dependence on the internet to do everything, including interacting with other humans, this isolation has become far worse and all of the predictable pathologies that come with it that he predicted are also worsening very rapidly, in a very dangerous way. 

I mean, to me, this is the West's greatest problem: spiritual decay that comes from lack of connection. Obviously, there are benefits to technology. We have cures to diseases that we would otherwise die from. The internet makes the world easier, gives you access to things, including reading and information that you otherwise, etc. etc. There are a lot of benefits. But for me, one of the things I think I've learned is that the only real law of the universe is balance, by which I mean for everything that you drive a benefit, there's an equal cost, at least, that offsets it and keeps it in balance. Whatever: fame, wealth, career, success, it all comes with a cost. I definitely think that's the case of technology, and Ted Kaczynski was one of the first people to lay out this case in the way he laid it out. So even though he was a terrorist, even though he killed people, a lot of people began to think, you know what? I think there's a lot of validity here. 

You might ask why he goes to the scene to kill people? He had an academic pedigree. He probably could have gotten this published. I don't really know. I haven't paid much attention lately to this whole episode, so I forgot what the rationale was for that. But in any event, maybe he was also a little imbalanced himself. That probably was true. But, sometimes, being mentally imbalanced or at least mentally alienated, in a way, is necessary to produce insights. Even going back to that last question we talked about, you remove yourself from a certain society or a sector of society, it gives you a much greater clarity of thought because you're no longer connected to it or in it, and you can see it much clearly. I'm sure that's what happens if you just remove yourself completely. 

One of the things the question asked about is left-wing politics. And the person who just asked this question, I'm on the political left, but a lot of his critiques of what left-wings politics is about and the flaws in it, I must admit have validity. And basically, what Ted Kaczynski's warning was, and this definitely proved prophetic, was that the idea would be to make this system of technology and the capitalism that emerged from it invulnerable, so nobody blamed it, nobody wants to undermine it, nobody wants to subvert it, no matter what it's doing to us we're all propagandized to revere it to believe it's all good to believe it's invulnerable, to believe that we benefit from it. And he said one of the ways that that's going to succeed is that people are going to be given kind of culture war fights or social justice causes, which are going to make them feel like they're doing something subversive or radical, when in reality nothing that they're doing is a threat remotely to any real power center.

 Compact Magazine, which is I think a really interesting magazine, it kind of explores the intersection between left and right populism had an article on June 16, 2023, which I really recommend. The headline of it was: “Ted Kaczynski Anti-Left Leftist.” 

Obviously, this vision he's presenting in some ways is left-wing. It's a denunciation of capitalism and its excesses, the Industrial Revolution, and technology, that has a left-wing ethos for sure, but he was also scornful of modern-day, leftist political expression. 

A week or two ago, Ryan Grim as on our show and we were talking about the kind of fraudulent branding of Bari Weiss and The Free Press. There was supposedly a heterodox and dissident when, in reality, it really grew from objecting to a lot of the excesses of the woke movement. And Ryan basically said, if you're talking about kids with blue hair or whatever color hair someone has, or if they're trans or not or whatever, you're not talking about anything that is about the real structure and dissemination of power. It's like catnip. They're happy to have you fight about racism, feminism, yeah, they love racism. They love feminism. Remember the CIA did that whole video, super woke video? They centered like a, what was she? She was, I think, a non-binary Latina who had neurodivergence. And she was just like, “I stand proud and tall and occupy space unapologetically” as a Latino non-binary immigrant, whatever. They're so happy to have that. “Hey, look at our Black generals. We're going to celebrate our Black military officials. We're the Pentagon. Hey, with the FBI, look at all our cool badass women agents or fighter pilots. Look, they're women now.” It's like, “Oh, wow, that's so awesome. We've done so much to change society.” It's that famous cartoon where a Muslim family in Yemen are looking up at the sky and kind of smiling and saying, “I hear the neck bomb is going to be sent, is going to be dropped by a woman pilot.” 

It's just like, here's Hillary Clinton. She's so radical and such a wild departure from everything before, because she's going to be the first female president when there's like nobody more representative of status quo politics than she. So, you vote for her. You feel like you're doing something really like a big blow against the power center and the patriarchy, because now there's a woman and you put her in office and she's going to be the best possible protector of status-quo prerogatives and power centers everywhere, because she presents this illusion that you've done something historic or subversive, when in reality you're just working as hard as you can to entrench the status quo that you think you're working against. 

Ted Kaczynski was incredibly prescient about that as well. There's a lot more to him than what I've gone over. There's a lot to the essay. I just can't do that justice in the time we have, even though I took another hour. 

I did want to give my thoughts on it, but I also highly encourage you to go find the essay, even just start with the essay and I think you'll be amazed if you just sit down and read it, forget about he's the Unabomber, all that. Just read it, and remember it was written in the early to mid-1990s, and so even if some of it seems more familiar now, at the time it was very prescient, but also the way he described it, the historical framework he employed to shed light on how it works, that it's not just some brand new thing, it's gone back, basically traced it back to the Industrial Revolution. There are not very many better ways to spend your time in terms of your brain and your critical thinking, then to go read that essay. 

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All right, here's a few questions on Gaza. 

First from @CatRika:

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@Lightwins2028:

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It actually is incredible that I come here and sit here every night and do this show more or less every night 500 times. I will accept that as well and agree that it is kind of incredible.

And then from @johnmccray:

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I will confess that what we've seen in Gaza over the last 20 months is not just some horrific tragedy or even war on the other side of the world; it is a genocide that involves some of the most twisted cruelty and sadism I have ever witnessed in my life –  obviously, I wasn't alive in World War II, which is why I say ‘in my lifetime.’ However, when you announce that you're blocking all food from entering an enclave that you fully surround and control – and yes, there's a small border with Egypt and Gaza, but the Israeli military is on the other side of that, controlling egress and ingress into it and out of it (besides, the Egyptian dictator is U.S. supported and always has been for decades because he's there to take marching orders from the U.S. regarding Israel).

When you take this concentrated open-air prison enclave, where people can't leave, can't come in, you ban the media from coming in, and you announce to the world you're putting a blockade on any food from entering it, and you knowingly starve them to death, you knowingly blockade food from entering on top of what they're already experiencing – endless bombing, people burning alive in their churches, in their tents, every hospital, every school, all of civilian life being destroyed… The doctors who are there don't have basic medicines. They don't have antibiotics, they don't have feeding formula for babies, they don't have painkillers or anesthesia for the children who come in with their limbs blown off – just the absolute, worst nightmares that human beings could possibly endure for a sustained period, and on top of that, you start starving them to death and then, instead of letting food distribution in from the actual organizations that are experienced in it and actually want to feed the people, you create some new entity that you control – American military contractors that are, for profit, doing the bidding of the IDF, purposely set up so that it barely gives out any food and then it's a death trap – so, you lure starving people in there and you murder them and massacre them regularly, daily… That is a new kind of evil. 

When you’re starving people to death and then saying, “Hey, here are some grains of flour, come here and get them,” and murdering them when they do, when you purposely set up the centers so they barely stay open for more than 15 minutes. People get noticed right before, and they have to trek miles, very dangerously, to get there. They're not allowed to stay there, waiting for the next time to open. They have to go back, and they're killed on the way there. So, they're faced with this Sophie's choice of either having to stay at home and watch their kids starve to death or knowing they risk their lives and their teenage son's lives to go there and try to get food, knowing that a lot of them are going to be murdered, that is a sick new kind of evil. 

And because of how ubiquitous cell phones are, we have to watch it, and we know it's been streamed live every day, throughout the world. We've all seen just the absolute most sickening, hideous human suffering imaginable, a level of sadism that's almost hard to fathom that people are capable of. And while some Israelis are protesting some more now about the end of this war, for the most part, the view of the Israelis has been, I don't care how many civilians we kill, I don't care how many babies are killed. The babies are terrorists. They'll grow up to be Hamas, so I don't care to kill them. 

These are evils that are difficult to endure, even if your work is journalism, even if you look at some of the most horrible things people are doing, you still have to report on them. Even for that, I mean, it's hard to fathom and express, and I know so many people, and I just thought about myself including in this, that you feel so impotent, so your rage is so purposeless, even though it's all-consuming, because the Trump administration doesn't care. It's filled with Israel fanatics, and it's going to support Israel until the very last Gazan is killed. Can you give them all the weapons, all the money, all the diplomatic cover? 

And then of course, the Israelis themselves are so deranged and fanatical that they don't care either. And short of having the world go in and militarily intervene against Israel or arming Hamas, which is not going to happen, there's not a lot you can do. There definitely has been serious measurable changes for the better in how Americans now look at Israel and look at the Israeli action in Gaza, how they look at American funding of Israel. That's not going away. That's a big, big problem for Israel. 

Once you open your eyes to that, you can't unsee it. And you have a lot of people, as we talked about in that first question, fueling it constantly. I hope I'm one of them. I certainly do what I can to do that. But that doesn't mean that any of that is going to stop this war. 

Even in Europe, and I really despise the Western European political elite and media class, they're utterly supportive of Israel. They are loyal to Israel, they arm Israel, fund them, not as much as the United States, but to a great degree. A lot of those historical reasons, guilt over World War II, which Israel expertly exploits – not that it's difficult to exploit the guilt and psychological fragility of Western Europeans, but they do a great job of it. 

So, you're starting to see things like Macron comes out and recognize a Palestinian state, not unimportant, but still a symbolic step. Keir Starmer, he's probably the most despicable politician from a character perspective, an utterly empty, vapid belief-free politician – he's despised in his own country, despised. – He didn't even go that far. He said, “We are going to recognize a Palestinian state unless Israel starts letting food in.” So, Palestinian statehood is not something they're entitled to. It's like a threat that you make to Israel that you're going to give them if the Israelis don't let food in. You see the Germans, who are always the worst for obvious psychological and historical reasons when it comes to standing up to Israel, sort of saying now, “We're going to cut off arms.” 

We'll see how long any of that lasts. The one group of people you do not want to put your faith and trust in to stand for a cause, to hold firm on beliefs, or convictions and values is Western European political elites. They're pathetic. Pathetic. Obviously, there are some exceptions, but as a class, they're nauseating and pathetic. 

I used to think the British elite class was the worst elite class on the planet. While I still think they are definitely in the running, I'm starting to actually think the Germans are more psychologically warped and sickening. I mean, the Germans were also fanatics about the war in Ukraine – fanatics. You put Germans in power, and they don't think about anything other than going to war with Russia. It's really a bizarre repetitive pattern. 

So, I don't want to pretend that there's some quick solution. I do give as much money as I can to them, you can find Palestinian aid and Gaza aid organizations. There's no shortage of verified GoFundMe accounts from people in Gaza telling their stories. And obviously you have to be a little careful not to give to fraudulent ones, but there are easy ways to verify those. Look for trustworthy people on Twitter who vouch for them, things like that. You can donate to that. Even like $50 at a time, whatever you're capable of, $10, $15. Everything is so high-priced in Gaza that sometimes even if they have food available, they can’t afford it. And I think it's also a good way of showing the people in Gaza that the world actually cares about their plight. 

Earlier today, I talked about how Marjorie Taylor Greene has become very outspoken about refusing to serve the agenda of AIPAC and that AIPAC is now on the march against her. They're going to do what they've done to all sorts of politicians which they are now doing to Thomas Massie as well: try to find some fraudulent, politician who lives in their district, who seems demographically appealing to that district, who has the same politics, except they're going to know that AIPAC paid for their political career, paid for the seat in Congress, and they're going to be supremely loyal. 

One of the worst examples – I mean, I can barely look at this person because of how pathetic and sad it is to watch him. They wanted to get Cori Bush out of Congress. If you're conservative and you dislike Cori Bush, AIPAC doesn't dislike her for any of the reasons that you dislike her. They only care about the fact that she's raised questions like, “Why are we sending so much money to Israel when my whole district is filled with people financially struggling, who don't have healthcare, don't have access to education, have no public safety?” Why are we giving all this money to Israel? Why is AIPAC forcing us to do that?” And they were so determined to take Cori Bush out because of her Israel questioning that they found some utterly craven Black politician, nice liberal, nice Democrat, of course. You have to get a liberal, you have to be a Democrat, and probably have to be a Black politician. His name is Wesley Bell, and they paid $15 million – 15,000 million –for one Democratic primary seat in Congress in St. Louis, to replace Cori Bush with somebody exactly like her, except that he's an AIPAC loyalist. And you can just see him on social media and in speeches, standing up for Israel. You know exactly why $15 million was his price tag, and he knows if he wants to keep that seat, he's going to need AIPAC doing the same. And they're going to try to do the same with Thomas Massie. They're going to try to do the same with Marjorie Taylor Greene. 

They're not always successful. They've tried it many times with Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, even, to a smaller extent, AOC. They made some inroads, but for the most part, Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar are too popular in their Democratic primaries and their Democratic constituencies for that to work. 

In 2022, Ilhan Omar almost lost the Democratic primary. I think she won by a few points. So, she's not invulnerable. They never quite spent the money on her that they spent on people like Cori Bush or Jamaal Bowman. But they have a long history of doing this. And they're clearly doing it to Thomas Massie. If you look at the three top billionaires donating to AIPAC to remove Thomas Massie, they're all Jewish billionaires who are extremely loyal to Israel. 

That's the whole point of this effort that Donald Trump supports. One thing you can do is just look at who AIPAC is trying to remove from Congress and just donate to whoever they want to take out of Congress as a way to thwart them because even if you're a conservative and you see them doing it to some left-wing member of Congress that you don't like, it's not like the person they're going to replace that person with is going to be any more appealing to you. There's no difference, except that that person is going to be bought and paid to be an AIPAC agent, who is going to be devoted to Israel and never question Israel. That's the only difference. 

AIPAC's not taking Cori Bush out of Congress or Jamaal Bowman because they're too left-wing. The only thing they care about is if the person is devoted to Israel. The same with Tom Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene. If they're going to take out members of Congress as punishment for not being loyal enough to Israel, donate to the people they're trying to remove on both sides. If you're on the left, you're not going to agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene or Thomas Massie, obviously. But the people who are going to come in their place are not going to agree with you politically anymore. The only difference will be that those people will be fanatical Israel supporters, like many in the Republican Party, instead of being among the few to question them. So, that is another way I think you could work. 

I know this is thankless work. There's no immediate gratification, but it does work. Public opinion changes. It really does. And especially with independent media with a free internet, with the deconcentrating of power over the discourse no longer in the hands of a few tiny number of gigantic media corporations controlled by people who are all the same basic political outlook, with the same interests, but now huge gigantic people with big audiences who influence a lot of people completely removed from those circles and that dogma. That is also a big reason for optimism. And if you see the polling change in a pretty substantial way as you do on the Israel question and the Gaza question, keep contributing to that. You don't have to have a gigantic platform. 

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Last question, this is from @coldhotdog:

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All right. The U.S. is sanctioning Brazil, Brazilian officials, and also imposing tariffs on them, not for the reason that Trump has been imposing tariffs on other countries, mainly because he thinks there's unfair trading practices causing a trade deficit. The opposite is true. The United States has a significant trade surplus with Brazil. There's not a trade deficit. So, the tariffs are more – and it was kind of explicit – used as punishment against Brazil for their violation of free speech, their violation to due process, their persecution of political opponents. And obviously, that is not the U.S.'s real goal. 

I wrote an article about this in Folha, where I do reporting, and I'm a columnist in Brazil. And it basically said, Okay, I hope no one takes seriously when the U.S. government says we're upset about the infringements on free speech or the erosions of democracy. It was like a month before Trump announced sanctions on Brazil and tariffs on Brazil, that he went to the Persian Gulf region and heaped praise on Mohammed bin Salman and the leaders of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, heralded them, hugged them, and not for the first time. While I think Brazil is very repressive and I think Moraes is an absolute tyrant, it's in a completely different universe than what happens in Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Qatar. It's not even close. 

So, any country that's heaping praise on and embracing, hugging and propping up the governments of Saudi Arabia, the Emirates and Qatar, or the Egyptians, or the Jordanians, of the Bahrainis or whomever, the Philippines, Indonesia, obviously, is not a country that cares about repression inside other countries. Obviously.

The United States doesn't go around the world fighting wars or intervening in other countries because they care about repression. That's the pretext. They love dictators as long as dictators are pro-American. They only have a problem with dictatorial regimes if they defy America, like Cuba or Venezuela, Iran, Russia, China, and then you hear “Oh my god, we're the United States, we go and fight for democracies. That is why we have to protect Ukraine.” Even though, arguably, Ukraine has become as repressive as Russia. So, whatever drives the United States, it's not a love for democracy, it is not a contempt for an erosion of liberty, it is not a defense of free speech, obviously, I hope there's no one in my audience who believes that. So, when Trump says, “Oh, we're punishing Brazil because it's become repressive, it’s attacked the free speech,” it's obviously not the reason. 

Then the question that our Locals member is raising, which is a good one.

I don't support the U.S. embargo of Cuba which is now 65 years old. The idea of that was that we're going to change the government of Cuba and free the Cuban people. Obviously, it has not done that. The only thing it's done is make life in Cuba utterly miserable for the population. Same with Venezuela. Same with the sanctions on Iran. So, I don't think that's the role of the United States to go try to change other governments, even if they're pretending, they're changing them out of concern about their oppression when obviously that's not the real reason. 

The reason is they want to replace it with a regime that's more compliant to the United States. And obviously I don't think Trump is intervening in Brazil with punishments and the like because he's concerned in the abstract about free speech. I mean, aside from all the dictatorial regimes we embrace, there's also the attacks on free speech in the United States, which we've gone over many times, including last night, that the Trump administration is spearheading, that the Biden administration before that spearheaded. 

So, the question then becomes, well, what is the real reason? And I want to say, while I view Alexandre de Moraes as a serious menace, as one of the most tyrannically minded people on the planet, even if he's not, say, as powerful or dictatorial as Mohammed bin Salman, just because Brazil is not that kind of society that permits that level of overt, absolute, autocratic tyranny, the way a lot of other countries do that we support prop up, I do think he's a genuine evil figure. Obviously, one of the reasons I talk about it is because I live here. My family is Brazilian. My kids are Brazilian. So, it's something I care about for that reason. And of course, I think the reason why Trump is doing it is because it's not actually a left-wing government in Brazil. Lula is the president. And he was a leftist in his earlier life. He was a labor leader, but he ran for president three times as a leftist, lost. And then finally, in 2002, he was sick of losing. And he wrote this famous letter called Letter to the Brazilian People, where he basically said, “I understand that if I want to be president, I have to moderate. I have to get along with financial centers. This is important for prosperity.” He basically promised not to be a fallaway left-wing dogma to be much more moderate. And then to prove it, he chose a billionaire banker as his vice president, to make clear to financial markets, banks, big corporations inside Brazil that he wasn't going to be a threat. 

They're not leftist at all. But I'm sure in Trump's mind, in the eyes of Marco Rubio, the people who are influencing Trump, he sees a little like basically a communist regime, like a left-wing regime, like from the Cold War, even though it's not remotely that. And I'm not suggesting they're conservative or right-wing. They're not. But they're not communists or even socialists. And part of what Trump's doing is he just looks at Lula and the Brazilian government as an enemy and is convinced, okay, they're our enemy. Let's punish them. If I had to find a justification – I'm not saying I support it, I'm not saying I justify it – but if I had to find a justification, I would say that the real only justification for any of this is the fact that Moraes and the Supreme Court have been now targeting not just America's social media companies. 

So, this is reaching into the United States threatening the free speech rights of American citizens or people legally residing in the United States, attacking and threatening and trying to bully American social media companies. And that is, I believe, an invasion of American sovereignty and an attack on the rights of American citizens. I do think the government, the U.S. government, is duty-bound to draw a very firm line and say, “No, you're not going to cross that line. And if you cross that, we're going to take action against you.” That's the only justification I can think of. 

So, I'm not defending the Magnitsky Act sanctions against Moraes, or even the punitive tariffs against Brazil. I've basically been arguing that if there's anyone who truly is tyrannical in his mindset, who's just absolutely, like, mentally unstable and just an authoritarian tyrant with no limits at all, who's been just vindictive and drunk on his power, it is Alexandre de Moraes. And I do think there's this one justification for the U.S. to cite, to justify taking retaliatory and retributive action against Brazil. 

Obviously, Trump likes Bolsonaro. He strongly identifies with any claims that a politician is being victimized by politicized lawfare because Trump believes as do I, that he himself was the victim of that and he sees when he looks at Bolsonaro a very similar thing happening to Bolsonaro, and I think he feels personally angry by that. So, I think there's some complex motives as well, but other than what I just articulated, I'm not defending the U.S.’s use of sanctions, the exploitation of the dollars in reserve currency to punish the economies of other countries because we don't like what they're doing internally. It's all obviously a fraud and a pretext to say, we're doing it because we care about free speech or due process or whatever. But I think there is a foundation to it, not a very strong one, but a foundation to it that I do think is legitimate. And you know what? I guess, just looking at it from a less principled perspective, I do think Alexandre de Moraes is a completely out-of-control monster. And everyone in Brazil is too scared to stand up to him or too supportive of the fact that he's imprisoning and exiling and silencing Bolsonaro supporters, that there is nobody in Brazil that's capable of stopping him or willing to do so. And the only thing that has really undermined and disrupted him is what Trump just did and now is threatening to do even more with even more invasive sanctions against his wife, against other officials in Brazil. And that is something they have to take very seriously and are taking very seriously. And it's the first time there's been real limits put on it. 

So, from a very kind of instrumentalized, results-based perspective, I confess that I'm happy about where that is leading, even if I do have genuine, really real concerns about the use of American arms and weaponry to do this.

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The Pro-Israel Meltdown Over Mahmoud Khalil's NYT Interview: When is Violence Inevitable?; Why is FIRE Suing Marco Rubio: With 1A Lawyer Conor Fitzpatrick
System Update #499

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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The case of Mahmoud Khalil made national headlines – even international headlines – because he was the very first student who was snatched either off the street or out of his apartment by ICE agents under the Trump administration's brand new policy of expelling Israel critics, who they deem supportive of Hamas, which is basically anyone who criticizes Israel whether they're PhD students on green cards or anything else. 

On June 20, a federal judge ordered Khalil, who is a green card holder, released from ICE detention facilities pending the deportation proceedings on the grounds that he had never been arrested, let alone convicted of anything, and presents no threat to anyone or to the public in general. That release has enabled Khalil to make rounds giving interviews to various outlets, and he gave one last week to the New York Times' columnist and podcast host, Ezra Klein. One excerpt of Khalil's interview went viral, largely due to Israel supporters, of course, who claimed he was apologizing for, if not actively supporting, Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel. We'll examine his comments to see if he did say that, but also to examine the important questions raised about who has the right to use violence and when, who is a terrorist or who is a freedom fighter, and whether anything Khalil said remotely poses a danger to the United States. 

Our guest was Conor Fitzpatrick, a lawyer from FIRE.org, the free speech group the ACLU once was: a group of lawyers and activists passionately devoted to defending free speech against any and all attacks on it, regardless of whether the censorship target is on the right, the left, or anything in between. FIRE announced this week that it was suing Marco Rubio and the U.S. State Department under the First Amendment, arguing that the government has the right to deport foreign nationals, but not to do so as punishment for their political expression. 

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Foto preta e branca de rosto de homem visto de pertoO conteúdo gerado por IA pode estar incorreto.

We have covered the case of Mahmoud Khalil many times on this show. He was the sort of test case, the canary in the coal mine, showing that the Trump administration intended not to deport all foreign students or most foreign students or just foreign students who expressed a political opinion and engaged in political activism. That's not the Trump Administration's policy at all. They don't even have a policy of deporting foreign students on U.S. soil for criticizing the United States. What they do have is a policy of deporting foreign students in the United States or at American universities who criticize Israel or protest against that foreign country. 

Mahmoud Khalil was detained in his apartment, where he lives with his American wife. She was eight months pregnant; their newborn infant was born. And she's an American citizen. His newborn infant is an American Citizen. And he's a green card on the path to American citizenship. 

Since then, there have been many other cases of students being snatched off the street by plainclothes ICE agents and unmarked cars, including a Tufts PhD student, Rumeysa Ozturk, who the Trump administration admits, did nothing other than co-author an op-ed in the Tuft's student newspaper, where she called on the administration, along with three other students who were co-authors, to implement the student Senate's decision that the administration should divest from Israel. That's all she did. Nothing against Jews, nothing in favor of Hamas, any of that. She just criticized Israel and urged divestment because the student senate had voted for it. It was essentially saying abide. She, too, was snatched off the street, put in ICE detention, and now has been released. And there have been many other cases since. 

In the case of Mahmoud Khalil, the federal court said you can continue the deportation proceeding, but there's no basis or justification for keeping him in a detention prison while all of this proceeds. If you win the deportation process, you can obviously deport him, but there's no reason why he should rot in jail rather than being at home with his wife and child while this process proceeds, because he's never done anything remotely to suggest that he's a threat to anybody. He was never arrested as part of the student protest or any other time in his life, never convicted of a crime, never the subject of a complaint with the police. 

And so, he's now out and he's giving interviews, as is his right. He's given several interviews. One of them was for The New York Times columnist and podcast host, Ezra Klein

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