Glenn Greenwald
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Michael Tracey Interviews Nick Fuentes on Trump and Israel
Interview
July 30, 2024
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Interview: Nick Fuentes

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So, with that, I want to get to our first guest. He is Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes, I'm not even sure what his title is. But I'm glad that he joined us. I know he's involved in some America First endeavor. 

 

M. Tracey: So, Nick Fuentes, how are you, sir? 

 

Nick Fuentes: I'm good. How are you doing, Michael? 

 

M. Tracey:  I'm okay. So, this is going to be seen as edgy and controversial that we're interviewing you here tonight. But last night, we had Cenk Uygur, and we have people across the political spectrum, and I see nothing wrong. I see it as a positive to engage with lots of people, even those who I don't agree with. Isn’t that the purpose of having shows like this?

 

Nick Fuentes: Absolutely. 

 

M. Tracey:  So, we're in agreement on that. Good. And I also want to say that you guys, your group had some kind of function in Detroit not too long ago and ended up getting shut down through some developments that I don't fully understand but, either way, I think that, in the United States, political groups ought to be able to hold events largely without hindrance because that's pretty foundational to the free association clause of the First Amendment. So, I'm with you on that as well. 

I want to start out by establishing some common ground. But let's go to something that you said, May 31. Here is a tweet of yours that I want to ask you about. 

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You say you love Donald Trump but you don't trust the people he has surrounded himself with, such as Tim Scott and you referred to Lindsey Graham and Rick Grinnell in some unflattering terms. You also don't like Nikki Haley and the former Never-Trumper J.D. Vance in his administration? Well, J.D. Vance is now the vice presidential nominee. So, your, ominous omen came true there. But I just want to ask you, why do you love Donald Trump so much? I mean, why do you preface any criticism of Donald Trump with a proclamation that you love him? I mean, why love a politician at all? Donald Trump is a three-time presidential candidate, arguably even a five-time presidential candidate if you count his toying with running for the Republican nomination in 2012. Then, in 2000, he ran on as a Reform Party primary candidate against Pat Buchanan. So, he's now a career politician, essentially. I don't know, I'm not inclined to declare my undying love for any politician. So, I'm just curious why it is that you tend to precede any critique you might have of Trump with this reaffirmation of your love for him. 

 

Nick Fuentes: Well, I think you have to consider that Trump is a pretty unique figure in American politics. I actually probably tend to agree more with you lately. I know we had a pretty strong disagreement on Twitter earlier this year, but I'm certainly closer to your camp at this point. But I would say that I always preface any criticism of Trump, I mean, first of all, it's a political reality that he is the most popular Republican in the United States, so, I think just from a purely tactical point of view, for somebody like myself, I don't necessarily want to alienate myself as a right-wing commentator from most of the Trump supporters. That is a big part of it, let's just be honest. But more than that, Donald Trump is who initially inspired me to actually become an America First nationalist or America First patriot. My show – you said that you don't know what my title is – I host a show on Rumble called America First, and I got the name from when he used that expression in his campaign and his inaugural address. He said “A new vision will govern our land. It will be only America first.” This is where I think there's a little bit more complexity, maybe, than some people are willing to admit, where before Donald Trump came into the party, conservatives said that America First was a KKK slogan because of the historical roots, of course, of that phrase with Charles Lindbergh and Henry Ford and others, they said it's an antisemitic slogan to even say that. And I think that when you look at it over time, what Trump has done as president and what he promises to do in a future term, you're absolutely right. And I've said as much on my show. There's a major contradiction. His first term did not live up to that standard. His policies now don't live up to that standard. But if it weren't for that initial campaign, in 2016, this contradiction would not be forced. And so, now, America First has been set as the standard and that was not the case before he came into office. Before, during and now even after his presidency, you see that the Republican consensus, the status quo is Neoconservatism. And you see people like DeSantis and Haley, you can even draw a distinction between what they say versus what he says. And you're right. It's not 100% America First, I have my criticisms also, but it's not the kind of insane rhetoric from people like Haley that say when it comes to Israel, we just need to say, “What do they want?” and “When do they want it?” and no questions asked. Biden has effectively done that. Also, Trump would probably be doing that as well. But certainly, it's a different standard being applied. And so, I think there's like a dialectical argument to be made that, again, even if the practical application was not lived up to it all, it has given a lot of young people – and I think a new generation of Republicans – the kind of ideological tools or dialectical tools to say “Are we living up even to America first?” So, I think that that was a really important thing that happened regardless. 

 

M. Tracey: Okay, so I want to go to an image. This is Sheldon and Miriam Adelson in February 2020. 

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There's Sheldon Adelson, the late casino magnate, and his wife, who has now inherited his fortune and his political project. This is in 2020. Okay, so in 2016, Adelson funded Trump to the tune of approximately $25 million, giving to a super PAC in the 2018 midterms. Adelson, whose singular issue is pro-Israel, okay, he cares about nothing else, at least in terms of his political giving. Even when he was divorced as a younger man, he told his associates that he wanted them to find him an Israeli woman for him to remarry. And they found him one. And he's even now buried in the Mount of Olives in East Jerusalem. So, that's Sheldon Adelson’s political project. Okay? He gave to Trump, in 2016, he gave to the Republicans, in 2018, in the midterms, one of the top funders of the entire Republican Party and of the Trump coordination with congressional Republicans. And then, in 2020, he again became one of Trump's chief funders. I raise that because after the 2020 election, you led something called the “Stop the Steal” movement. Or at least you were a galvanizer or rallier for the “Stop the Steal” movement because you were just so desperate to keep Trump in power after 2020. 

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There's you and Ali Akbar, also known as Ali Alexander, who were some of the main organizers of that effort. And this is after Trump took all these millions from the chief funders of the cause that you now say you object to, which is orienting U.S. foreign policy inextricably with Israel. And, Trump even says that he did this at the behest of Adelson. Trump was addressing a Republican Jewish Coalition gathering last November. You said his rhetoric is different from DeSantis and Haley's, I mean, not really, Trump said at this Republican Jewish Coalition donor gala, he pointed to Miriam Adelson and said, “Your husband was so great. We moved the embassy to Jerusalem because he really wanted it.” 

So, I guess my question to you is, I understand that you have these criticisms of Trump now, but all this was evident while Trump was actually in power and yet you were putting your, I guess, reputation on the line. Via this Stop the Steal. I think it was kind of a sham. No offense. Where did all that money go that was given to Stop the Steal? I mean, Trump fundraised out the wazoo for “Stop the Steal.” Desperate Republican voters were filling his coffers with money on the idea that he could, like, switch the delegate slate in Georgia or something. And I don't know, I guess. Are you having an epiphany now that you now repudiate what you were doing in 2020 to keep Trump in power? Or do you see the contradiction that I'm trying to highlight here? 

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Trump Admin Unleashes More Policies That Prioritize Israel Over American Citizens; The Smear Campaign Against Gaza Aid Whistleblower with Journalist Mel Witte
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I don't think people realize how many policies there are already in place in the United States that punish American citizens and deprive American citizens of certain benefits and certain rights if they'd refuse to either sign a loyalty oath to Israel, where they agree never to boycott the state of Israel, even though they're allowed to boycott every other country on the planet, even other American states, you just can't boycott Israel. 

There are also many programs that will dismantle crucial programs beneficial to American interests in order to shield Israel from criticism or to claim that, by allowing protest against Israel, an institution is being antisemitic. And it doesn't matter how valuable these programs are, if they're associated with an institution that Israel supporters dislike for having allowed some protests against Israel, they will dismantle and defund the program. Let's start with the second policy that happened on Friday night as an example, just to illustrate how extreme this has become. 

Here's Paul Graham, a very successful investor in Silicon Valley, who has been very supportive of Republican and conservative policies, but also quite outspoken about the Trump administration's financing of Israel. On August 3, 2025, he said this:

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 Terrence Tao is probably the most important and accomplished mathematician on the planet. Maybe there are two or three people who compete with him. He's an Australian American citizen. He works inside the United States, on research programs funded by the U.S. government, which the government funds because applied mathematics is one of the most crucial fields to all sorts of programs that the United States needs to compete with China, from AI and cryptography to detecting financial fraud or managing financial transactions. 

The Allies were able to break Nazi codes using cryptography because of mathematicians during World War II. That's the equivalent of who this person is and what this program does. Yet, the Trump administration just announced that they're defunding it, not because they say that it's wasteful or that it's not producing benefits. And it's no part of some broader attempt to defund research programs at universities. The Trump administration is funding all sorts of research. Instituting programs at universities is something the U.S. government has always done for its own benefit. 

The only programs they're defunding are ones that they claim are attached to institutions like UCLA, which they claimed are antisemitic. They claim that about Harvard, filled with Jewish students and Jewish administrators, five of the last seven presidents of Harvard are Jewish, yet somehow the Trump administration decided that's an antisemitic institution because they allowed protests against Israel. Same with UCLA. Anyone who knows UCLA knows how robustly represented Jewish students and Jewish faculty members are. 

Read here what Terence Tao said on his social media account about why this was done. This was on August 1. 

 Again, this is so ironic. The conservative movement spent a full decade mocking claims of racism, mocking claims that people on college campuses need anti-discrimination protection, then the Trump administration gets in and makes it one of their very top priorities to declare that there's a racism epidemic in the United States, but only against one group. There's only one genuinely marginalized, true victim group in the United States, and that's American Jews and the Trump administration has been doing everything, no matter how much it harms American citizens or American interests, to purge the world of this one form of bigotry that it claims has pervaded all American institutions. And it will sacrifice anything to do so. This is not new. This is just how extreme these things can get in the framework of American politics. 

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Stephen Miller's False Denials About Trump's Campus "Hate Speech" Codes; Sohrab Ahmari on the MAGA Splits Over Antitrust, Foreign Wars, and More
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One of President Trump's most powerful advisers, Stephen Miller, last night claimed that I had posted what he called "patently false" statements about the Trump administration’s policy. Specifically, earlier in the day, I had pointed out – and documented, as I've done many times – that the Trump administration has implemented a radically expanded "hate speech" code that outlawed a wide range of opinions about Israel and Jewish individuals and, even worse, that they have been pressuring American universities to adopt this expanded "hate speech" code on campuses to restrict the free speech rights, not of foreign students, but of American professors, American administrators and American students. It's a direct attack on the free speech rights of Americans on college campuses. 

I also pointed out – as I have covered here many times – that the Trump administration has also adopted a policy of deporting law-abiding citizens, not for criticizing the United States, but for criticizing Israel. All of my claims here are demonstrably and indisputably true. Yet after I pointed them out yesterday, and various MAGA influencers began responding to them and promoting them, White House officials began contacting them to convince them that my claims weren't true. When that didn't work because I was able to provide the evidence, the White House late last night dispatched one of its most popular officials – Stephen Miller – to label my claims “patently false." 

The policies in question, adopted by the Trump administration, especially these attacks on free speech on American college campuses through hate speech codes, are of great importance, precisely, since they do attack the free speech rights of Americans at our universities, and the actual truth of what the Trump administration should be demonstrated. So that's exactly what we're going to do tonight. 

Then: The emergence of Donald Trump and his MAGA ideology in the Republican Party led to the opening of all sorts of new ideas and policies previously anathema in that party. All of that, in turn, led to vibrant debates and competing views within the Trump coalition, as well as to all new voices and perspectives. One of the most interesting thinkers to emerge from that clash is our guest tonight: he's Sohrab Ahmari, one of the founders of Compact Magazine and now the U.S. editor for the online journal UnHerd. We’ll talk about all of that, as well as other MAGA divisions becoming increasingly more visible on economic populism generally, war and foreign policy, and much more. 

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Sometimes, government policy is carried out with very flamboyant and melodramatic announcements that everyone can listen to and understand, but more often it's carried out through a series of documents, very lengthy documents, sometimes legal documents, that have a great deal of complexity to them. 

Oftentimes, when that happens, the government, if it has a policy or is pursuing things that are unpopular, especially among its own voters, can just try to confuse things by claiming that people's descriptions of what they're doing are untrue and false and trying to just confuse people with a bunch of irrelevances or false claims. A lot of people don't know what to make of it. They just throw up their hands because most people don't have the time to sort through all that. Especially if you're a supporter of a political movement and you hear that they're pursuing a policy that you just think is so anathema to their ideology that you don't want to believe that they're doing, you're happy to hear from the government when they say, “Oh, that's a lie. Don't listen to the persons or the people saying that. That's not actually what we're doing.”

Yet when that happens, I think it's very incumbent upon everybody who wants to know what their government is doing to actually understand the truth. And that is what happened last night. 

I've been reporting for several months now on the Trump administration's systematic efforts to force American universities to adopt expanded hate speech codes. Remember, for so long, conservatives hated hate speech codes on college campuses. They condemned it as censorship. They said it's designed to suppress ideas. 

Oftentimes, those hate speech codes were justified on the grounds that it's necessary to protect minority groups or that those ideas are hateful and incite violence. And all of this, we were told by most conservatives that I know, I think, in probably a consensus close to unanimity, we were told that this is just repressive behavior, that faculty and students on campus should have the freedom to express whatever views they want. If they're controversial, if they are offensive, if they are just disliked by others, the solution is not to ban those ideas or punish those people, but to allow open debate to flourish and people to hear those ideas. 

That is a critique I vehemently agree with. And I've long sided with conservatives on this censorship debate as it has formed over the last, say, six, seven, eight years when it comes to online discourse, when it comes to campus discourse, free speech is something that is not just a constitutional guarantee and according to the Declaration of Independence, a right guaranteed by God, but it is also central to the American ethos of how we think debate should unfold. We don't trust the central authority to dictate what ideas are prohibited and which ones aren't. Instead, we believe in the free flow of ideas and the ability of adults to listen and make up their own minds. 

That's the opposite of what the Trump administration has now been doing. What they said they believed in, Donald Trump, in his inauguration and other times, was that he wanted to restore free speech. Early on in the administration, JD Vance went to Europe and chided them for having long lists of prohibited ideas for which their citizens are punished if they express those views. And the reality is that's exactly what the Trump administration has been doing. 

I want to make clear I'm not talking here about the controversies over deporting foreign students for criticizing Israel. That's a separate issue, which is part of this discussion, but that's totally ancillary and secondary. I've covered that many times. That is not what I'm discussing. 

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