Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
Interview with Brendan Carr: FCC Commissioner on Western Censorship Regimes
Video Transcript
September 12, 2024
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Interview: Brendan Carr

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Brendan Carr is a former communications lawyer. He now serves as a Trump-appointed commissioner on the Federal Communications Commission, which is the federal agency charged with regulating media and communications. Unusually for an FCC commissioner, he has been quite outspoken about several matters of public debate, including his opposition to Big Tech's censorship, which he has been very steadfast on. The censorship specifically imposed around the COVID-19 discourse and, most recently, in opposition to the decision by one judge in Brazil to ban X in the entire country due to its failures to comply with a variety of unjust censorship orders. He has also, at the same time, been one of the leaders urging the banning of TikTok on national security grounds. And he played a very important role in all these issues. He's not a pundit, he's an actual commissioner of the FCC, and for that reason, we are excited to speak with him tonight. 

 

G. Greenwald: Mr. Carr, welcome to our show. It's great to speak with you. Thanks for coming on. 

 

Brendan Carr: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me and thanks for all your work over the years. Really appreciate your insights and perspectives. 

 

G. Greenwald: Yeah, I feel very much the same way. So, let me start by asking you, what is it that motivated you? Usually, FCC commissioners are pretty obscure. They're regulators. They're people who work in behind-the-scenes agencies. You've decided to kind of use this platform to speak out principally in defense of free speech and in opposition to Big Tech censorship, online censorship from wherever it comes from. What motivated you to do that and what is it that the FCC can do about that? 

 

Brendan Carr: Yeah, it's a good question. At the FCC, there are five of us that are commissioners. Three are of the president's party. So, anyway, three are Democrats. You have two that are Republicans. As you noted, I was originally nominated by President Trump, back in 2017, and was actually renominated by President Biden last year. You have to have Republicans on the commission. And so, every commissioner is independent, we are outside of the administration. That gives us a lot of freedom and leeway to pick and choose the issues that we focus on and one of them that I've been very focused on over the years is this really sort of recent or last couple of years surge in censorship. We see it domestically in the U.S. and we see it abroad as well. 

I think one of the first times I think you and I crossed paths was when a number of Democrats in Congress were writing letters to cable companies urging them to drop Fox News and Newsmax based on the political perspectives of the newsrooms there, we saw other efforts where there was a license transfer of a radio station in South Florida going to perceived conservative buyers, and Democrats wrote the FCC and suggest that we should block it on that basis. And so, I've tried to sort of speak out where I see that taking place. Recently, in Brazil, it fits that we can unpack it, it's part of this global surge in censorship but also I think it's a really concerning authoritarian trend in Brazil that should give businesses across the board a lot of concern. This isn't just about Elon Musk. It's not just about failing to have a registered agent. There's something happening here that we can impact that I think, as Bill Ackman said, is putting Brazil on the path to becoming uninvestable. 

 

G. Greenwald: I definitely want to delve a little bit more into the Brazil case. Obviously, as I'm sure you know, we are based in Brazil. It's kind of amazing that if we want to watch our own show or transmit our own show on Rumble, which is no longer available in Brazil for similar reasons, we have to use a VPN to do it, obviously have to use a VPN to everyone to access apps, even though somehow this judge invented a law that is now a criminal offense to do so and you have to pay $9,000 a day if you are caught doing so. But, you know, for those of us who have lived with the Internet for a long time, who remember its emergence in our lives in sort of the incipient stages, the key attribute of the Internet that made it so exciting and innovative as technology was that it was free, meaning you could speak anonymously, or under your own name, you could have privacy on it, no one could surveil you or find you or trace you and most importantly, no centralized corporate or state power could regulate the kinds of things that you could say it was that the innovation was this was going to be an instrument to enable citizens around the world to trade information, to talk to each other, to organize, to transmit information without having to rely on big media corporations and without having to be subject to government approval. I think the Internet was that for quite a long time. In your mind, when did this censorship ethos or system begin to emerge as a system, and what is it that you think caused it? 

 

Brendan Carr: I think you're exactly right. I think if you go back to 2012, there was a real rise in free speech on the Internet. In fact, President Obama went to Facebook's Silicon Valley headquarters back in 2012 and gave a speech where he said the free flow of information on the Internet is key to, in his words, “a healthy democracy.” Then, flash forward 10 years, and a few short miles down the road, President Obama gave a speech, in 2022, at Stanford, and he talked about the threats that come from the free flow of information and talked about it as being a potential threat to democracy. So, if you look at the bookends of 2012 to 2022, something very fundamental, as you noted, has changed. We used to view free speech on the Internet – in fact, America itself, whether it was free speech over any modern means of communication, Radio Free Asia – we embraced free speech during a lot of the sort of 2010 and 2012 global unrest and we viewed it as a tool to take down authoritarians. And then I think something happened in 2016, right around Brexit, right around the election of President Trump, there's a very clear shift that people said, you know what? Maybe this free speech on the Internet thing is not compatible with the outcomes that we want to see at the ballot box. And so, something has changed fundamentally. All of those powers that were applied to promote free speech, to undermine authoritarian regimes have sort of turned those jets into reverse. I think you're seeing globally the lack of control over free speech and, again, going back even further, the modern-day op-ed launched on the pages of The New York Times, in the 1970s, and there was an editor at the time, John Oakes, and he said “Diversity of opinion is the lifeblood of democracy; the moment we insist that everybody think the same way we do, our democratic way of life is in jeopardy,” of course, flash forward now 50 years and your Times op-ed page, you know, had people fired over running a free speech piece, the Tom Cotton op-ed. So, I think you put your finger on it. There was a first generation of free speech, of empowerment on the Internet and these established gatekeepers now are working hard to get control of it, Brazil is the latest example. 

 

G. Greenwald: Yeah. Another thing The New York Times does, by the way, is they play a very agitating activist role in demanding and then punishing Big Tech companies if they don't censor enough, they'll publish stories – “Facebook allows neo-Nazis” – and this is all designed to demand that either you censor more the types of opinions that we want or we think is disinformation, or we're going to accuse you of having “blood on your hands” or are allowing all this “hate speech” to flourish. 

One of the controversies over the last couple of years, and this is most certainly central to your critique of the censorship around COVID-19 has been this continuous communication from the government under the Biden administration to the Big Tech platforms, encouraging, coercing, demanding, hectoring, threatening that certain types of dissent, certain types of information that the government, in its judgment, has decreed to be false or harmful or hateful or whatever, be censored. And obviously, the U.S. government has a lot of leverage over these Big Tech companies to force that to happen. It's not just an option or a suggestion, it's something far greater than that. As two courts have ruled before the Supreme Court threw it out on standing grounds. But the people who will defend that will say, look, the U.S. government does have a legitimate role in conveying to Big Tech companies information that they think is false or harmful, information that they think is coming from a foreign government that's disinformation designed to destabilize our government. What's your view on the legitimate role, if any, of the U.S. government to communicate their concerns to Big Tech companies about certain kinds of speech that's being permitted? 

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The U.S. is Not "Liberating" Anything in Venezuela (Except its Oil)

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System Update #508

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

 

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