Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
Professor Jeffrey Sachs on Ukraine, Russia, Israel and 2024
Video Transcript
October 07, 2024
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It's Friday, October 4. 

Tonight: Professor Jeffrey Sachs is a frequent guest on our program and one reason for that is that he is easily one of the most interesting public policy analysts with a virtually singular trajectory. Sachs, who is now on the faculty of Columbia, spent most of his early career at Harvard. That is where he received his bachelor's, master's, and Ph.D. in economics and was named a full professor by the age of 28. The reason for that extreme height up the ladder was that Sachs in the ‘80s and early ‘90s had become one of the most influential and globally respected economic policy planners on the planet. He had led several countries almost single-handedly, including Bolivia and Poland, out of their debt crises and became a significant advisor to the post-Soviet governments of Russia under both Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin. In sum, Professor Sachs has always had one foot planted quite centrally in the most influential mainstream circles. 

As recently as 2020, he was named by Lancet to cheer its commission on COVID-19, showing that he continued to be on the inside of significant mainstream organizations. His frequent media appearances, including on many network news programs and outlets like “Morning Joe,” were reflective of how respected he was in those kinds of establishment circles. And yet Sachs, despite his access to the highest circles of political power and policymaking, has never really been an adherent, certainly not a reliable hearing of establishment orthodoxy. Over the years, he has become increasingly critical, one might say radically so, of the core orthodoxies of the U.S. government and particularly of its foreign policy. He has long been a vehement critic of neoconservative ideology, was a vocal opponent of the U.S.-NATO role in the war in Ukraine, from the start, and has become one of the sharpest and most emphatic opponents of Israeli government actions and U.S. support for them. He also, even in his position as chair of that COVID commission, ended up concluding and arguing that it was more likely than not that the epidemic originated from a leak in the Wuhan lab and not from naturally occurring viruses. 

Now he has found himself so alienated by establishment Washington, you'll never see him on “Morning Joe” anymore, that he announced his protest support for Jill Stein and the Green Party in the 2024 presidential election as a way of expressing his increasingly radical discontent with the U.S. security state and its ongoing control of our government, regardless of which party wins elections. Shortly before this show, we sat down with him for a little bit over an hour for a very wide-ranging and I think very thought-provoking discussion about the 2024 elections, about the uniparty as represented by the support for Kamala of the Cheney family and Bush-Cheney neocons, the broader historical context for how militarism and neoconservatism and interventionism came to drive U.S. actions since the early 1990s. We talk about both the war in Ukraine and the regional war now raging in the Middle East and we end, or at least he does, on a surprisingly optimistic note, with a surprisingly optimistic vision for how all of this finally might be overturned. 

Like Professor John Mearsheimer, who was interviewed last night, Professor Sachs speaks not as a pundit or an ideologue, but as a scholar who has deeply studied all of these issues, as well as a first-hand participant in many of the historical events that continue to shape these policies, as well as our current war policies. 

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update, starting right now.


Interview: Jeffrey Sachs

G. Greenwald: First, it's always great to see you. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us today. 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: Great to be with you. Thanks. Thank you. 

 

G. Greenwald: As is usually the case when we have you here, an enormous amount is going on, crises all over the world, wars that are escalating. We obviously want to delve into those a great deal but before we get to those, I think that we haven't had you on since you announced your decision to endorse neither Donald Trump nor Kamala Harris, but instead to endorse Jill Stein's candidacy for president and the Green Party ticket. Can you talk about the reasons you made that choice? 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: Well, basically, I can't even vote for her on the New York ballot, so, I don't feel we have much choice. I don't think either of the two main candidates is up to the job of being president and I don't feel like voting for anybody that isn't up to the job. It's pretty bad that we have this situation. 

 

G. Greenwald: When you say not up to the job, do you mean they aren't personally capable of carrying out the duties of the presidency or are there specific issues where you believe neither of those two candidates have the right view or the right understanding of the issues to be an effective president? 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: Both. I don't think either for different reasons, is really capable of guiding our country to security and safety. That requires helping to guide the world to security and safety and I don't believe that either Trump or Harris is likely to do that. Neither of them has what it takes to be able to do that, which is both the knowledge and personal character to make the right decisions. Trump, we know about, I don't have to belabor the point. Harris is not only completely inexperienced, she shows no recognition of the real issues in international affairs. She pretty much blindly follows the Biden administration, which may be a bit understandable in her capacity as vice president but is not so understandable in her capacity as a candidate for the presidency. Both of them are on the deeply wrong side of the issues in the Middle East. Both of them are completely obedient to the Israel lobby, which is a disaster for Israel first and foremost, but also for the United States and the world. I should say first and foremost, for the Palestinian people. Let me be clear, but then also for Israel, for the United States and the world. And both seem to be pretty slavishly following that Israel lobby line when it comes to China. They compete with each other over who could be nastier and I would say dumber in how we're approaching our relations with China. It's not good. It's just not good at all. 

 

G. Greenwald: Yeah, I get all that and those are all things that I want to dive into a little bit more deeply with you. Before we do, just on the same topic, you made a podcast appearance on the “All-In” podcast alongside Professor Mearsheimer, who's a frequent guest on our show and, in fact, he was on our show last night and we spent most of our time talking about the Middle East and Ukraine, but also about the 2024 election. And what he said is that this argument Trump is making about why he's more trustworthy or more liable to foster stability and peace in the world – namely that I was president for four years and none of these wars were breaking out, it was only once Biden was in office did the Russian invasion of Ukraine happen, it was only once Biden was in office that October 7 happened and everything that followed from that, now, the world is sort of in flames, whereas when I was president for four years, the war was more or less stable without a lot of very dangerous wars breaking out – and I asked him: do you think that was just kind of a coincidence, good luck on Trump's part, or is there something about Trump's demeanor and approach and ethos that is responsible for that? He said he thinks the Democratic Party's instinct now is to always be in favor of military intervention in one way or another, whereas he thinks Trump's is to be averse to that, that he considers not engaging the United States in wars to be kind of a source of pride for him. Do you think there's any validity to that perspective? 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: There could be. It's possible. But on the other hand, I would say Trump made a mess of so many global issues that helped to bring us to where we are. He obviously did not solve the Israel-Palestine issue. Quite the contrary. He obviously did not solve the issues with Iran, utterly the contrary. He escalated the issues with China. He armed Ukraine actually during his term. The escalation in 2022 was under Biden, but Trump was a part of the same process. Yes, NATO will enlarge aid to Ukraine and yes, the United States will arm Ukraine, which occurred under Trump. So, when you look at all of these theaters of conflict, Trump solved little, he understood little, and he appointed people like Pompeo and Bolton... 

 

G. Greenwald: And Nikki Haley. 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: And Nikki Haley. Maybe there are glimmers of hope that he will avoid a war. I don't want to argue against that, but I just don't find it so reassuring. I have to say, I think both of them are basically going to be continuing creatures of the U.S. deep state. Trump's rhetoric just in recent days about Iran, I'm paraphrasing that “we’ll destroy Iran,” but he said some pretty completely outrageous things in the last few days doesn't give me much confidence. 

 

G. Greenwald: Yeah, I think they've convinced him, even though there's not any evidence for it, that Iran is actually trying to engineer assassinations against Trump and knowing that he would take that very personally. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but I do believe that he's convinced of that and, of course… 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: That seems to be a phony story from what I can get, traveling in and out of planes but it seems like a plant of the FBI, from what I heard. 

 

G. Greenwald: Yeah. I mean, that shouldn't be surprising. And of course, he has Miriam Adelson financed his campaign. And anyway, I think there are a lot of reasons to be concerned about that as well. Last question on Jill Stein and elections. You know very well the argument having just kind of laid out a case to be concerned about Trump, which is that although you can't vote for Jill Stein because you're in New York, even if you could, it wouldn't much matter. New York is, I think, still a pretty safe state for the Democrats. But the argument is, of course, in swing states, the more people who listen to you, who trust your credibility and hear you endorsing Jill Stein, the more people who follow through on that and actually vote for Jill Stein in, say, key swing states, in reality, it's really just a vote for Donald Trump in effect. I guess my question for you is, number one, do you accept that premise? And number two, if you do, does that concern you? Do you care? 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: I'm very worried about both of these candidates and very worried about the state of our country. I'm very worried about the fact that our foreign policy really is determined by deeper forces. I think what Putin said in an interview with Figaro in 2017 is very interesting. Putin is quoted as saying that by then, in 2017, he had worked with three U.S. presidents and he said they come into office with some ideas but then, as he described it, the men in dark suits and blue ties show up to explain to them the way things really are. And we know, with Trump, Bolton showed up and Pompeo showed up and they explained how things really are. We should understand in the United States that what passes for our democracy right now is not real engagement of the people and our elections are completely overblown in terms of what they do regarding America's role in the world, which right now, because of how close we are to complete disaster in a global war, is actually the preeminent issue. And we have a deep-state problem that is absolutely severe. So, I'm not telling people how to vote. I really I'm not. I'm not voting. So, I cannot myself vote for anybody, even on the ostensible lesser evil basis, if I don't feel that they are meeting the minimum standards for decency as a president of the United States. It's sad. Of course, it's extremely regrettable. I think it's a weakness of our system. In parliamentary systems, you have many more choices. You can have coalitions that emerge afterward. We have two lousy choices right now. The two explanations for our two lousy choices are that we are a plutocracy where politics is driven by huge money that has nothing to do with us and we are a deep-state system where the things that really determine life and death for us, and especially the 90 seconds of proximity to nuclear Armageddon as defined by the Doomsday Clock, is not determined by democratic institutions engaged in public deliberation and debate. It's determined secretly, surreptitiously, with narratives that are based on lies and where public opinion plays very little role. This is alarming. So, I would say that no matter what happens in November, honestly, we have our urgent work cut out for us to restore some semblance of democratic responsibility – small D – democratic responsibility for our foreign policy because if we continue to be led by the CIA, the NSC, the Pentagon, the arms contractors, the Israel lobby and all the rest, we are just going to go deeper and deeper into war. 

 

G. Greenwald: I just have one anecdote to illustrate what you are saying. We had on our show, Speaker Mike Johnson, a couple of months before he became speaker when nobody thought of him as a potential speaker, and one of the reasons he had caught my eye was because he was becoming this very vocal and effective critic of the U.S. Security State, the need to have much more fortified privacy for individuals to curb surveillance. He was very critical of the attempt to renew FISA, he came on my show and he laid all of that out in extremely convincing ways, and I walked away and I even said to people, wow, he seems impressive to me. And he's very smart. He's a lawyer and has given a lot of thought to these issues. He becomes speaker and within a month not only was he shepherding the FISA renewal law that he told me so explicitly and had been saying for months he was opposed to, not only was he shepherding it and making sure that it passed, but he was also blocking any attempts to impose even minimal reforms on how the NSA or the CIA or the FBI could spy on Americans. When finally somebody confronted him and said, this is a complete reversal from everything, you changed on a dime as soon as you became speaker, his explanation was I was taken to a very secret, sensitive part of the CIA and they showed me the briefing that convinced me that this spying is necessary. It's just such a vivid and candid expression of who actually rules Washington. No matter how you think you're voting or what the effects of the election are. 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: That's exactly right and it is exactly true. And people should at least scratch their heads when we have had these so-called negotiations over cease-fires in the Middle East. Who's negotiating? The CIA and Mossad? Are you kidding – the CIA, is supposed to be an intelligence agency? Of course, we know it's a private army of the president and the secretive one, but they're the ones negotiating. And I can tell you, case after case, it's the same story, and I see it when I deal with the politicians as well, they're taken aside and the facts are explained to them and everything is confidential. Believe me, our life and death are in the hands of confidential papers that we're not going to hear about. And what's said in public is phony. And this is how our government operates right now. And so, it's just to say about the election, again, nothing is solved on Election Day. We have a struggle to restore a democratic process in the United States. And that means take it out of the plutocratic hands and that means to take it out of the deep state CIA-Pentagon-Arms Contractors hands. 

 

G. Greenwald: Yeah, I don't know if you've given a lot of thought to this because maybe it doesn't deserve all that much thought. But, you know, I know that you recall very well how Democrats talked about George Bush and Dick Cheney and the neocons, especially Dick Cheney, as this kind of Hitler figure, this fascist, this warmonger who wanted to go to war just to increase the value of his Halliburton stock. They also accused him of stealing the 2000 election away from what they consider the rightful winner to be, which is Al Gore. Now, here we are, 20 years later, and Dick Cheney and his daughter in his name are actively campaigning for the Democratic candidate, not just campaigning for them because they think Trump is a threat to democracy, but because they're specifically saying that the Kamala-led Democratic Party's foreign policy is closer to “our foreign policy,” meaning us, the Cheneys than a Trump-led Republican Party would be. I remember back in the day, too, Nancy Pelosi was a senior Democrat. She was accusing George Bush and Dick Cheney of the most gruesome accusations she could think of. And then it turns out when Nancy Pelosi's daughter creates a documentary they cut, she says that George W. Bush is like a member of the Pelosi family, that the two love each other so much and have for many years, so that it's all sort of this theater. But what do you make of this kind of migration of neocons and Bush-Cheney officials away from the Republican Party very enthusiastically, not begrudgingly supporting the Democrats who, 20 years ago, were calling them Nazis and fascists? 

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The Epstein Files: The Blackmail of Billionaire Leon Black and Epstein's Role in It
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you should also know that I felt it necessary to contact some friends in FSB, and I though did not give them your name. They explained to me in no uncertain terms that especially now , when Russia is trying to bring in outside investors , as you know the economy sucks, and desperately investment that a person that would attempt to blackmail a us businessman would immeditaly become in the 21 century, what they terms . vrag naroda meant in the 20th they translated it for me as the enemy of the people, and would e dealt with extremely harshly , as it threatened the economies of teh country. So i expect never ever to hear a threat from you again.

 

In a separate email to Karp, Black’s lawyer, Epstein instructs him to order surveillance on the woman’s whereabouts by using the services of Nardello & Co., a private spy and intelligence agency used by the world’s richest people.

 

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To describe these negotiations as torturous would be an understatement. But it is worth taking a glimpse to see how easily and casually blackmail and extortion were used in this world.

 

Leon Black is a man worth $13 billion, yet his life appears utterly consumed by having to deal constantly with all sorts of people (including Epstein) demanding huge sums of money from him, accompanied by threats of various kinds. Epstein was central to helping him navigate through all of this blackmail and extortion, and thus, he was obviously fully privy to all of Black’s darkest secrets.

 


 

At their first taped meeting on August 14, 2015, Black repeatedly offered his mistress a payment package of $1 million per year for the next 12 years, plus an up-front investment fund of £2 million for her to obtain a visa to live with her minor son in the UK. But Ganieva repeatedly rejected those offers, instead demanding a lump sum of no less than $100 million, threatening him over and over that she would destroy his life if he did not pay all of it.

 

Black was both astounded and irritated that she thought a payment package of $15 million was somehow abusive and insulting. He emphasized that he was willing to negotiate it upward, but she was adamant that it had to be $100 million or nothing, an amount Black insisted he could not and would not pay.

 

When pressed to explain where she derived that number, Ganieva argued that she considered the two to be married (even though Black was long married to another woman), thereby entitling her to half of what he earned during those years. Whenever Black pointed out that they only had sex once a month or so for five or six years in an apartment he rented for her, and that they never even lived together, she became offended and enraged and repeatedly hardened her stance.

 

Over and over, they went in circles for hours across multiple meetings. Many times, Black tried flattery: telling her how much he cared for her and assuring her that he considered her brilliant and beautiful. Everything he tried seemed to backfire and to solidify her $100 million blackmail price tag. (In the transcripts, “JD” refers to “John Doe,” the name the law firm used for Black; the redacted initials are for Ganieva):

 



 

On other occasions during their meetings, Ganieva insisted that she was entitled to $100 million because Black had “ruined” her life. He invariably pointed out how much money he had given her over the years, to say nothing of the $15 million he was now offering her, and expressed bafflement at how she could see it that way.

 

In response, Ganieva would insist that a “cabal” of Black’s billionaire friends — led by Michael Bloomberg, Mort Zuckerman, and Len Blavatnik — had conspired with Black to ruin her reputation. Other times, she blamed Black for speaking disparagingly of her to destroy her life. Other times, she claimed that people in multiple cities — New York, London, Moscow — were monitoring and following her and trying to kill her. This is but a fraction of the exchanges they had, as he alternated between threatening her with prison and flattering her with praise, while she kept saying she did not care about the consequences and would ruin his life unless she was paid the full amount:

 



 

By their last taped meeting in October, Ganieva appeared more willing to negotiate the amount of the payment. The duo agreed to a payment package in return for her silence; it included Black’s payments to her of $100,000 per month for the next 12 years (or $1.2 million per year for 12 years), as well as other benefits that exceeded a value of $5 million. They signed a contract formalizing what they called a “non-disclosure agreement,” and he made the payments to her for several years on time. The ultimate total value to be paid was $21 million.

 

Unfortunately for Black, these hours of misery, and the many millions paid to her, were all for naught. In March, 2021, Ganieva — despite Black’s paying the required amounts — took to Twitter to publicly accuse Black of “raping and assaulting” her, and further claimed that he “trafficked” her to Epstein in Miami without her consent, to force her to have sex with Epstein.

 

As part of these public accusations, Ganieva spilled all the beans on the years-long affair the two had: exactly what Black had paid her millions of dollars to keep quiet. When Black denied her accusations, she sued him for both defamation and assault. Her case was ultimately dismissed, and she sacrificed all the remaining millions she was to receive in an attempt to destroy his life.

 

Meanwhile, in 2021, Black was forced out of the hedge fund that made him a billionaire and which he had co-founded, Apollo Global Management, as a result of extensive public disclosures about his close ties to Epstein, who, two years earlier, had been arrested, became a notorious household name, and then died in prison. As a result of all that, and the disclosures from his mistress, Black — just like his ex-mistress — came to believe he was the victim of a “cabal.” He sued his co-founder at Apollo, the billionaire Josh Harris, as well as Ganieva and a leading P.R. firm on RICO charges, alleging that they all conspired to destroy his reputation and drive him out of Apollo. Black’s RICO case was dismissed.

 

Black’s fear that these disclosures would permanently destroy his reputation and standing in society proved to be prescient. An independent law firm was retained by Apollo to investigate his relationship with Epstein. Despite the report’s conclusion that Black had done nothing illegal, he has been forced off multiple boards that he spent tens of millions of dollars to obtain, including the highly prestigious post of Chair of the Museum of Modern Art, which he received after compiling one of the world’s largest and most expensive collections, only to lose that position due to Epstein associations.

 

So destroyed is Leon Black’s reputation from these disclosures that a business relationship between Apollo and the company Lifetouch — an 80-year-old company that captures photos of young school children — resulted in many school districts this week cancelling photo shoots involving this company, even though the company never appeared once in the Epstein files. But any remote association with Black — once a pillar of global high society — is now deemed so toxic that it can contaminate anything, no matter how removed from Epstein.

 


 

None of this definitively proves anything like a global blackmail ring overseen by Epstein and/or intelligence agencies. But it does leave little doubt that Epstein was not only very aware of the valuable leverage such sexual secrets gave him, but also that he used it when he needed to, including with Leon Black. Epstein witnessed up close how many millions Black was willing to pay to prevent public disclosure in a desperate attempt to preserve his reputation and marriage.

 

In October, The New York Times published a long examination of what was known at the time about the years-long relationship between Black and Epstein. In 2016, Black seemingly wanted to stop paying Epstein the tens of millions each year he had been paying him. But Epstein was having none of it.

 

Far from speaking to Black as if Epstein were an employee or paid advisor, he spoke to the billionaire in threatening, menacing, highly demanding, and insulting terms:

 

Jeffrey Epstein was furious. For years, he had relied on the billionaire Leon Black as his primary source of income, advising him on everything from taxes to his world-class art collection. But by 2016, Mr. Black seemed to be reluctant to keep paying him tens of millions of dollars a year.

So Mr. Epstein threw a tantrum.

One of Mr. Black’s other financial advisers had created “a really dangerous mess,” Mr. Epstein wrote in an email to Mr. Black. Another was “a waste of money and space.” He even attacked Mr. Black’s children as “retarded” for supposedly making a mess of his estate.

The typo-strewn tirade was one of dozens of previously unreported emails reviewed by The New York Times in which Mr. Epstein hectored Mr. Black, at times demanding tens of millions of dollars beyond the $150 million he had already been paid.

The pressure campaign appeared to work. Mr. Black, who for decades was one of the richest and highest-profile figures on Wall Street, continued to fork over tens of millions of dollars in fees and loans, albeit less than Mr. Epstein had been seeking.

 

The mind-bogglingly massive size of Black’s payments to Epstein over the years for “tax advice” made no rational sense. Billionaires like Black are not exactly known for easily or willingly parting with money that they do not have to pay. They cling to money, which is how many become billionaires in the first place.

 

As the Times article put it, Black’s explanation for these payments to Epstein “puzzled many on Wall Street, who have asked why one of the country’s richest men would pay Mr. Epstein, a college dropout, so much more than what prestigious law firms would charge for similar services.”

 

Beyond Black’s payments to Epstein himself, he also “wired hundreds of thousands of dollars to at least three women who were associated with Mr. Epstein.” And all of this led to Epstein speaking to Black not the way one would speak to one’s most valuable client or to one’s boss, but rather spoke to him in terms of non-negotiable ultimatums, notably similar to the tone used by Black’s mistress-turned-blackmailer:

 


Email from Jeffrey Epstein to Leon Black, dated November 2, 2015.

 

When Black did not relent, Epstein’s demands only grew more aggressive. In one email, he told Black: “I think you should pay the 25 [million] that you did not for this year. For next year it's the same 40 [million] as always, paid 20 [million] in jan and 20 [million] in july, and then we are done.” At one point, Epstein responded to Black’s complaints about a cash crunch (a grievance Black also tried using with his mistress) with offers to take payment from Black in the form of real estate, art, or financing for Epstein’s plane:

 


Email from Jeffrey Epstein to Leon Black, dated March 16, 2016.

 

With whatever motives, Black succumbed to Epstein’s pressure and kept paying him massive sums, including $20 million at the start of 2017, and then another $8 million just a few months later, in April.

 

Epstein had access to virtually every part of Black’s life, as he had with Wexner before that. He was in possession of all sorts of private information about their intimate lives, which would and could have destroyed them if he disclosed it, as evidenced by the reputational destruction each has suffered just from the limited disclosures about their relationship with Epstein, to say nothing of whatever else Epstein knew.

 

Leon Black was most definitely the target of extreme and aggressive blackmail and extortion over his sex life in at least one instance we know of, and Epstein was at the center of that, directing him. While Wall Street may have been baffled that Wexner and Black paid such sums to Epstein over the years, including after Black wanted to cut him off, it is quite easy to understand why they did so. That is particularly so as Epstein became angrier and more threatening, and as he began reminding Black of all the threats from which Epstein had long protected him. Epstein watched those exact tactics work for Black’s mistress.

 

The DOJ continues to insist it has no evidence of Epstein using his access to the most embarrassing parts of the private and sexual lives of the world’s richest and most powerful people for blackmail purposes. But we know for certain that blackmail was used in this world, and that Epstein was not only well aware of highly valuable secrets but was also paid enormous, seemingly irrational sums by billionaires whose lives he knew intimately.

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Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest Unwittingly Reveal the Severity of the U.S. Surveillance State
Just a decade after a global backlash was triggered by Snowden reporting on mass domestic surveillance, the state-corporate dragnet is stronger and more invasive than ever.

That the U.S. Surveillance State is rapidly growing to the point of ubiquity has been demonstrated over the past week by seemingly benign events. While the picture that emerges is grim, to put it mildly, at least Americans are again confronted with crystal clarity over how severe this has become.

 

The latest round of valid panic over privacy began during the Super Bowl held on Sunday. During the game, Amazon ran a commercial for its Ring camera security system. The ad manipulatively exploited people’s love of dogs to induce them to ignore the consequences of what Amazon was touting. It seems that trick did not work.

 

The ad highlighted what the company calls its “Search Party” feature, whereby one can upload a picture, for example, of a lost dog. Doing so will activate multiple other Amazon Ring cameras in the neighborhood, which will, in turn, use AI programs to scan all dogs, it seems, and identify the one that is lost. The 30-second commercial was full of heart-tugging scenes of young children and elderly people being reunited with their lost dogs.

 

But the graphic Amazon used seems to have unwittingly depicted how invasive this technology can be. That this capability now exists in a product that has long been pitched as nothing more than a simple tool for homeowners to monitor their own homes created, it seems, an unavoidable contract between public understanding of Ring and what Amazon was now boasting it could do.

 


Amazon’s Super Bowl ad for Ring and its “Search Party” feature.

 

Many people were not just surprised but quite shocked and alarmed to learn that what they thought was merely their own personal security system now has the ability to link with countless other Ring cameras to form a neighborhood-wide (or city-wide, or state-wide) surveillance dragnet. That Amazon emphasized that this feature is available (for now) only to those who “opt-in” did not assuage concerns.

 

Numerous media outlets sounded the alarm. The online privacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) condemned Ring’s program as previewing “a world where biometric identification could be unleashed from consumer devices to identify, track, and locate anything — human, pet, and otherwise.”

 

Many private citizens who previously used Ring also reacted negatively. “Viral videos online show people removing or destroying their cameras over privacy concerns,” reported USA Today. The backlash became so severe that, just days later, Amazon — seeking to assuage public anger — announced the termination of a partnership between Ring and Flock Safety, a police surveillance tech company (while Flock is unrelated to Search Party, public backlash made it impossible, at least for now, for Amazon to send Ring’s user data to a police surveillance firm).

 

The Amazon ad seems to have triggered a long-overdue spotlight on how the combination of ubiquitous cameras, AI, and rapidly advancing facial recognition software will render the term “privacy” little more than a quaint concept from the past. As EFF put it, Ring’s program “could already run afoul of biometric privacy laws in some states, which require explicit, informed consent from individuals before a company can just run face recognition on someone.”

 

Those concerns escalated just a few days later in the context of the Tucson disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, mother of long-time TODAY Show host Savannah Guthrie. At the home where she lives, Nancy Guthrie used Google’s Nest camera for security, a product similar to Amazon’s Ring.

 

Guthrie, however, did not pay Google for a subscription for those cameras, instead solely using the cameras for real-time monitoring. As CBS News explained, “with a free Google Nest plan, the video should have been deleted within 3 to 6 hours — long after Guthrie was reported missing.” Even professional privacy advocates have understood that customers who use Nest without a subscription will not have their cameras connected to Google’s data servers, meaning that no recordings will be stored or available for any period beyond a few hours.

 

For that reason, Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos announced early on “that there was no video available in part because Guthrie didn’t have an active subscription to the company.” Many people, for obvious reasons, prefer to avoid permanently storing comprehensive daily video reports with Google of when they leave and return to their own home, or who visits them at their home, when, and for how long.

 

Despite all this, FBI investigators on the case were somehow magically able to “recover” this video from Guthrie’s camera many days later. FBI Director Kash Patel was essentially forced to admit this when he released still images of what appears to be the masked perpetrator who broke into Guthrie’s home. (The Google user agreement, which few users read, does protect the company by stating that images may be stored even in the absence of a subscription.)

 

While the “discovery” of footage from this home camera by Google engineers is obviously of great value to the Guthrie family and law enforcement agents searching for Guthrie, it raises obvious yet serious questions about why Google, contrary to common understanding, was storing the video footage of unsubscribed users. A former NSA data researcher and CEO of a cybersecurity firm, Patrick Johnson, told CBS: “There's kind of this old saying that data is never deleted, it's just renamed.” 

 


Image obtained through Nancy Guthrie’s unsubscribed Google Nest camera and released by the FBI.

 

It is rather remarkable that Americans are being led, more or less willingly, into a state-corporate, Panopticon-like domestic surveillance state with relatively little resistance, though the widespread reaction to Amazon’s Ring ad is encouraging. Much of that muted reaction may be due to a lack of realization about the severity of the evolving privacy threat. Beyond that, privacy and other core rights can seem abstract and less of a priority than more material concerns, at least until they are gone.

 

It is always the case that there are benefits available from relinquishing core civil liberties: allowing infringements on free speech may reduce false claims and hateful ideas; allowing searches and seizures without warrants will likely help the police catch more criminals, and do so more quickly; giving up privacy may, in fact, enhance security.

 

But the core premise of the West generally, and the U.S. in particular, is that those trade-offs are never worthwhile. Americans still all learn and are taught to admire the iconic (if not apocryphal) 1775 words of Patrick Henry, which came to define the core ethos of the Revolutionary War and American Founding: “Give me liberty or give me death.” It is hard to express in more definitive terms on which side of that liberty-versus-security trade-off the U.S. was intended to fall.

 

These recent events emerge in a broader context of this new Silicon Valley-driven destruction of individual privacy. Palantir’s federal contracts for domestic surveillance and domestic data management continue to expand rapidly, with more and more intrusive data about Americans consolidated under the control of this one sinister corporation.

 

Facial recognition technology — now fully in use for an array of purposes from Customs and Border Protection at airports to ICE’s patrolling of American streets — means that fully tracking one’s movements in public spaces is easier than ever, and is becoming easier by the day. It was only three years ago that we interviewed New York Timesreporter Kashmir Hill about her new book, “Your Face Belongs to Us.” The warnings she issued about the dangers of this proliferating technology have not only come true with startling speed but also appear already beyond what even she envisioned.

 

On top of all this are advances in AI. Its effects on privacy cannot yet be quantified, but they will not be good. I have tried most AI programs simply to remain abreast of how they function.

 

After just a few weeks, I had to stop my use of Google’s Gemini because it was compiling not just segregated data about me, but also a wide array of information to form what could reasonably be described as a dossier on my life, including information I had not wittingly provided it. It would answer questions I asked it with creepy, unrelated references to the far-too-complete picture it had managed to create of many aspects of my life (at one point, it commented, somewhat judgmentally or out of feigned “concern,” about the late hours I was keeping while working, a topic I never raised).

 

Many of these unnerving developments have happened without much public notice because we are often distracted by what appear to be more immediate and proximate events in the news cycle. The lack of sufficient attention to these privacy dangers over the last couple of years, including at times from me, should not obscure how consequential they are.

 

All of this is particularly remarkable, and particularly disconcerting, since we are barely more than a decade removed from the disclosures about mass domestic surveillance enabled by the courageous whistleblower Edward Snowden. Although most of our reporting focused on state surveillance, one of the first stories featured the joint state-corporate spying framework built in conjunction with the U.S. security state and Silicon Valley giants.

 

The Snowden stories sparked years of anger, attempts at reform, changes in diplomatic relations, and even genuine (albeit forced) improvements in Big Tech’s user privacy. But the calculation of the U.S. security state and Big Tech was that at some point, attention to privacy concerns would disperse and then virtually evaporate, enabling the state-corporate surveillance state to march on without much notice or resistance. At least as of now, the calculation seems to have been vindicated.

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