Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
Atlantic Leak Reveals Trump Admin's Foreign Policy Mindset; Appeals Court Extremely Skeptical of Trump's El Salvador Deportation Powers; Israel's Horrific Crimes in the Last 24 Hours | System Update 428
System Update #428
March 27, 2025
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The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

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On this show:

First, Trump national security officials planned the granular details of the U.S. bombing campaign of Yemen, not on official classified channels, but rather on the popular messaging app Signal. Before they began planning that bombing attack on that platform, National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, for some reason, added to their group one of the journalists most responsible for the most frauds of the last 20 years, as well as some of the most baseless attacks on Donald Trump himself, the editor in chief of the Atlantic and former IDF prison guard, Jeffrey Goldberg. We'll look at what we know from these chats to gain insight into the foreign policy ideology and mindset dominating Trump's thus far quite militaristic foreign policy. 

Then: In the oral argument held this afternoon, the appellate judges in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, generally considered the highest appeals court right below the Supreme Court, were openly hostile – aggressively hostile at times – to most, if not all of the Trump's lawyers' reasons as to why no due process is required before shipping  Venezuelans and other foreign nationals to a notorious prison in El Salvador, to spend the rest of their lives in prison. We'll report on that hearing and the broader legal and Constitutional issues arrayed by this increasingly acrimonious fight over the Constitution and due process. 

Finally: over the past 24 hours, they somehow outdid themselves and reached new lows. First, Israel targeted and then slaughtered two young Palestinian journalists who have been among the most effective in showing the world the realities of Gaza over the last 15 months – reporting they continued to do quite bravely despite an endless stream of death threats from the IDF, meaning they would be killed if they continued to speak out. Then, perhaps even more shockingly, the producer of the documentary on Israel and Palestine that just won an Oscar at last month's Academy Award ceremony was attacked and almost fatally lynched by Israeli settlers, not in Gaza but in the West Bank, settlements that the entire world considers to be illegally occupying that land and as the ambulance sped to a hospital to try and save this Oscar-winning filmmaker, the IDF dragged him from the ambulance and then arrested him – they did not arrest the settlers who beat him nearly to death but the Oscar-winning filmmaker who had just been near-fatally beaten. 

There are simply no limits or standards of law and morality the Israeli government recognizes at this point and if you're an American citizen, you are absolutely responsible for everything that is being done because it's being done with your money, your resources, your arms and weapons and your diplomatic protection without which Israel cannot carry out these atrocities. 

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A major reason I found myself interested in and even seeing potential in the Trump movement as it has evolved over the last eight years is that they had adopted and begun to advocate a foreign policy that they were describing as both anti-war and anti-intervention, including critiques that the United States has involved itself in far too many wars, especially in the Middle East, including ones where our direct interest and security were not really at state. 

Donald Trump prided himself on the fact that he did not involve the U.S. in any new wars in his first term and said he was determined to continue that and it was in his second term that he wanted to be remembered by history as a peacemaker, not somebody who started wars, but as someone who ended them. He talked often about ending the war in Ukraine and Russia. He patted himself on the back quite a bit for the cease-fire deal in Gaza that he engineered before he was inaugurated. 

Yet, over the past two months, we have seen a very bellicose, very militaristic, and at times war-creating foreign policy. They're definitely trying to stop the war in Ukraine and Russia. I just believe they deserve a lot of credit for that – I've given them a lot of credit for it – but, at the same time, they not only stood by and gave the green light, but encouraged Israel to restart the destruction of Gaza, even though there's very little left in Gaza to destroy. 

In other words, they unraveled their own cease-fire deal that they themselves negotiated and facilitated by demanding that Hamas and the Gazans abandon it and release all hostages immediately instead of following the schedule set out in that cease-fire. 

Even the most pro-Israel voices in the U.S. and Israel have acknowledged that Netanyahu told his right-wing cabinet members from the beginning, don't worry about this cease-fire, we're only going to do the first stage and once we get some hostages back, we're going to resume the war and to get rid of the Gazans out of Gaza entirely. And that's exactly what he set out to do and is now doing. 

And then of course you have the Trump administration's new war – you really could call it a new war because it had stopped finally under Biden, once he was on his way out during the transition which was the bombing campaign that Biden carried out throughout all of 2024, constantly dropping weapons and bombs on the Houthis in Yemen. Trump criticized Joe Biden for it, often doing so every day, saying there's no need to drop bombs on Yemen. Yet, early this month, the Trump administration announced very proudly, very publicly, that they were not only bombing Yemen but doing so in a very aggressive way, in a sustained campaign. And that's what they're doing. 

They're carrying out massive bombing campaigns all throughout Yemen, killing many civilians and targeting Houthis and the like. Exactly the policy that Biden carried out for the same reasons, with the same exact rationale. Although as we've gone over before, and we've read you the accounts, at least Biden had the excuse when he was doing it – when Trump was criticizing him – that the Houthis were attacking American ships in the Red Sea and elsewhere. 

Once there was a cease-fire deal and Israel was no longer bombing Gaza, the Houthis stopped their attacks: they said they would and they did. Only once the Israelis blockaded humanitarian aid from entering Gaza as the agreement called for, did they say, “We're going to attack Israeli ships,” Israel-flagged ships only until they allow the humanitarian aid into Gaza as required by that agreement.” So, they weren't even attacking American ships at the time this bombing campaign was initiated. I agreed with Trump's criticism of Biden, but at least Biden had an argument, whereas Trump doesn't. 

Earlier today, Jeffrey Goldberg, the longtime editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, which has been one of the most anti-Trump magazines in the country, ground zero during the Russiagate hysteria, who, during the 2020 election, claimed anonymously that Trump had disparaged the soldiers who died fighting as losers and suckers, then, in this election, he was the one who kept quoting General Milley and General Kelly claiming that Trump had said he admired Hitler and was a fascist – so, he’s not one of the most unscrupulous operatives in D.C. over the last 20 to 25 years but also one of the most vociferously anti-Trump ones – Goldberg wrote an article earlier today in The Atlantic, which by the way, is owned by the billionaire heiress Laurene Powell Jobs, the widow of Steve Jobs, who inherited his billions and became a major donor to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris:

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This is shocking. It's not just one of a standard classified conversation – all conversations in Washington are “classified” – this is as sensitive as it gets. They are talking here about a surprise attack on a country that the United States was not bombing, and they were talking about the most precise detailed operational aspects of this bombing campaign: where they were going to bomb, exactly what time they were going to start bombing, which military weapons they were going to use to bomb. 

Obviously, anybody who gets this information and leaks it could sabotage the attack or put service members who are carrying it out in obvious danger. If the Houthis knew exactly where planes were coming from and what targets they were going to use, they could do all sorts of things to sabotage it. To put Jeffrey Goldberg into a top-secret meeting, even though he has no top-secret security clearance – seemingly by mistake, but who knows? – that is incompetence on a security breach of the most extreme kind you can imagine. 

But that's something for other people to worry about, I'm not particularly concerned with national security breaches like that. I think way too much is classified. Although even I, generally on the far end of absolutism when it comes to state and government transparency recognize and I've always said that, of course, some things ought to be secret, some things ought to be hidden. Well, one of those is troop movements. 

This would be like if you planned D-Day and accidentally included Nazi sympathizing or communist sympathizing or anti-American journalists in your planning meeting and they learned the details in advance of the invasion of Normandy. I mean it's on that level of breach. 

But I'll let others worry about that, what I'm more interested in is the debate that ensued, the conversation about the bombing attack and who said what, to get a glimpse into the mindset of Trump's national security team. 

So, here's what Goldberg wrote:

[…] At this point, a fascinating policy discussion commenced. The account labeled “JD Vance” responded at 8:16: “Team, I am out for the day doing an economic event in Michigan. But I think we are making a mistake.” (Vance was indeed in Michigan that day.) The Vance account goes on to state, “3 percent of US trade runs through the Suez. 40 percent of European trade does. There is a real risk that the public doesn’t understand this or why it’s necessary. The strongest reason to do this is, as POTUS said, to send a message.” […] (The Atlantic. March 24, 2025.)

On the one hand, this is not a very vehement objection, he wasn't pounding the table and saying, “This is wrong and we cannot do this.” You have to remember that JD Vance has a potentially purely empty and symbolic role in the Trump administration. He's the vice president. He really has no official duties. Whatever duties he gets, whatever influence he has, is solely because Trump gives it to him. Therefore, he's always being quite careful not to seem like he's a radical dissident to the Trump agenda. 

Nonetheless, he and he alone did stand up and say, “I think this is a mistake” because there are no real U.S. interests involved here. We have a tiny amount of shipping that goes to the Suez. It's the Europeans who have enormous amounts and why are we out there demanding that Europe take responsibility for its own defense and that we not bear the brunt of it anymore? Here we are about to do exactly that in a way that the public won't understand. 

I guess you might consider it a coincidence – I don't – that the position of the Houthis under Trump has been not that we're going to attack American ships, but that we are only going to attack Israeli ships. To me, this is much more a bombing campaign designed to protect Israel than to protect the Europeans. No one's going to say that and no one is going to admit that, but that's the truth. And yet it was J.D. Vance, despite the extremely insignificant, almost trivial, connection to U.S. interests, who stood up and said, this is wrong, this was a mistake. 

[…] The Vance account then goes on to make a noteworthy statement, considering that the vice president has not deviated publicly from Trump’s position on virtually any issue. “I am not sure the president is aware how inconsistent this is with his message on Europe right now. There’s a further risk that we see a moderate to severe spike in oil prices. I am willing to support the consensus of the team and keep these concerns to myself. But there is a strong argument for delaying this a month, doing the messaging work on why this matters, seeing where the economy is, etc.” […] (The Atlantic. March 24, 2025.)

So, he was essentially saying, “This is wrong, I'm against it, but at least let's wait a month so we can figure out what we're really doing here. Why the urgency? Why the immediacy?”

[HEGSETH MESSAGE]

[…] At 8:27, a message arrived from the “Pete Hegseth” account. “VP: I understand your concerns – and fully support you raising w/ POTUS. Important considerations, most of which are tough to know how they play out (economy, Ukraine peace, Gaza, etc). I think messaging is going to be tough no matter what – nobody knows who the Houthis are – which is why we would need to stay focused on: 1) Biden failed & 2) Iran funded.” […] (The Atlantic. March 24, 2025.)

In other words, they have no way to explain to the American people why bombing the Houthis is in their interest, why bombing Yemen is in their interest, so, Hegseth is saying, let's just simplify it and just avoid the real reasons and just say Biden failed even though Biden actually bombed Yemen continuously throughout 2024. 

This is always the Republican narrative: the Democrats are weak. They say Democrats and Biden were weak on Israel even though the United States under Biden paid for Israel's entire war, funded and armed that war, diplomatically protected Israel every day of the U.N. – and it was Obama who signed a deal on his way out of office with Netanyahu to give the Israelis $38 billion in military aid over 10 years. 

But of course, the Fox News Republican narrative always has to be, “Oh, the Democrats hate Israel,” etc. Chuck Schumer, the highest ranking Democrat, has a book out warning of the antisemitism crisis that has engulfed America and said, “My job is to make sure the left stays pro-Israel.” The idea that Democrats are weak on Israel or the Middle East or whatever is laughable. It's a joke. But Hegseth is saying that's how we have to sell it to the public: Biden failed and let's scare them over the connection to Iran. 

[…] The Hegseth message goes on to state, “Waiting a few weeks or a month does not fundamentally change the calculus. 2 immediate risks on waiting: 1) this leaks and we look indecisive; 2) Israel takes an action first – or Gaza cease-fire falls apart – and we don’t get to start this on our own terms. We can manage both. We are prepared to execute, and if I had final go or no go vote, I believe we should. This [is] not about the Houthis. I see it as two things: 1) Restoring Freedom of Navigation, a core national interest; and 2) Reestablish deterrence, which Biden cratered. But, we can easily pause. And if we do, I will do all we can to enforce 100% OPSEC”—operations security. “I welcome other thoughts.” […] (The Atlantic. March 24, 2025.)

Very ironic that Pete Hegseth is promising a 100% OPSEC operational security on this plan when they're all doing this planning in front of an anti-Trump journalist that they have no idea has been invited by the National Security Advisor into this group unwittingly or otherwise. 

Goldberg goes on:

[YEMEN BOMBINGS]

It was the next morning, Saturday, March 15, when this story became truly bizarre.

At 11:44 a.m., the account labeled “Pete Hegseth” posted in Signal a “TEAM UPDATE.” I will not quote from this update, or from certain other subsequent texts. The information contained in them, if they had been read by an adversary of the United States, could conceivably have been used to harm American military and intelligence personnel, particularly in the broader Middle East, Central Command’s area of responsibility. What I will say, in order to illustrate the shocking recklessness of this Signal conversation, is that the Hegseth post contained operational details of forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing.

The only person to reply to the update from Hegseth was the person identified as the vice president. “I will say a prayer for victory,” Vance wrote. (Two other users subsequently added prayer emoji.)

According to the lengthy Hegseth text, the first detonations in Yemen would be felt two hours hence, at 1:45 p.m. Eastern time. So, I waited in my car in a supermarket parking lot. If this Signal chat was real, I reasoned, Houthi targets would soon be bombed. At about 1:55, I checked X and searched Yemen. Explosions were then being heard across Sanaa, the capital city. (The Atlantic. March 24, 2025.)

Nobody is denying that the chat is authentic. When the State Department spokesperson was asked why this happened, she simply said, “We’re not commenting on it.” 

At Donald Trump's press appearance, which, to his credit, he does essentially every day in the Roosevelt Room, a reporter in a very weird, timid way asked Trump about this story and Trump denied all knowledge of it. Here's what he said. 

Video. Donald Trump, C-SPAN2. March 24, 2025.

The Atlantic article came out and everybody in Washington in the political circles was talking about it. I don't doubt actually that Trump hasn't heard about it, sometimes he doesn't follow the news cycle all that closely. But later after this, the White House put out a statement through Karoline Levitt, the White House press secretary, saying President Trump has full and complete confidence in his National Security Advisor, Mike Waltz, even though Mike Waltz added a journalist, a hostile journalist, to their planning for a new war – and that's illegal by the way, to transmit classified information to someone not authorized to receive it, Pam Bondi, Tulsi Gabbard, others in the Trump administration have said they will have zero tolerance for leaks of classified information. 

They're lucky that Jeffrey Goldberg is obviously in favor of the bombing of Yemen because it helps Israel, whose foreign military he joined and served as a prison guard in an Israeli detention camp for Palestinians and he's been an advocate of the Iraq war, did more than anybody to spread the lie that Saddam Hussein was involved in al-Qaeda in order to justify that war. So, obviously it was safe in that sense because Jeffrey Goldberg was going to be a supporter of it. He has a very similar worldview to Mike Waltz. Both of them are standard GOP militarists and neocons. But still, a gigantic mistake at best, a huge national security breach, and had it been done with the wrong person, it could easily have put the lives of American troops in harm's way. 

And why were they using Signal? The government pays for extremely sophisticated classified networks to talk about these sorts of things. I consider Signal relatively safe among commercial apps. It's probably the safest. It's the one I use when I'm having conversations that I don't want to be easily invaded, but it's far from invulnerable. 

[…]

Here's the issue I have: aside from the fact that there's, no denying, a gigantic gap between what MAGA said they wanted Trump to do when he won. Then, Trump got into office and, less than two months later, he's bombing Yemen. Are there very many MAGA advocates, MAGA influencers and Republican conservative pundits who are denouncing this? There are some, but not many and this is the same exact thing with the free speech issue. 

Conservatives have probably been most contemptuous over the last decade of the attempt to limit free speech on campus in the name of protecting the sensibilities and creating safe spaces for various minority groups. Trump gets into office and one of his primary focuses is to eliminate antisemitism on college campuses to force Columbia to adopt a broader definition of antisemitism, such that various criticisms of Israel are outlawed in the name of making Jewish students feel safe.  I am not talking here about deporting protesters; I'm talking about forcing speech codes on Columbia and in other schools as well. You don't hear very many MAGA advocates and pundits and employers and the like object to that either, even though, they've been waiving the free speech banner incessantly for the last decade, especially when it comes to college campuses. And this is something I've seen in my journalism career every single time there's a change in party control in the White House, every single time. 

When people are out of power, they embrace values and beliefs, and they appeal to constitutional principles and whatever they use to condemn the opposite party when they're in power. Then, the minute their party gets into power, they forget about every single value they pretended to believe in, even if the president of their party is carrying on the same policies that they so vehemently denounced when carried out by the prior party. 

The first time I ever saw that was the first time there was a party change in the White House while I was a journalist – I started in 2005, condemning the War on Terror, writing every day about the due process violations of the War and Terror, the spying and privacy violations of American citizens, rendition and torture and imprisoning people with no trial – and I built up a gigantic Democrat Party and liberal audience, along with a libertarian one, but the minute the Republicans are out of the office and Barack Obama takes office in 2009, and continues to carry on many, in fact, most of the same War on Terror policies that I had spent years viciously denouncing, huge numbers of Democrats in my audience were like, “Wait a minute, I didn't really believe these things. I was just using them to attack George Bush. I don't want to hear these criticisms of Barack Obama,” and I lost a good part of my audience – and kept a good part as well, but you see it every single time there's a change of party control. They either start overlooking the things that they say they find so objectionable or start twisting themselves into pretzels to justify it because now their side is doing it. 

Trump undid his cease-fire and caused a new war in Gaza, even though there's barely anything left to destroy there – but we're paying for and arming. He restarted a Biden bombing campaign in Yemen, two different wars in the Middle East while Israel bombed Syria and Lebanon and accused part of those countries – basically have a giant Middle East war led by the United States and Israel – exactly the kind of wars that Trump for a decade has been promising to end and you barely hear protests from his followers, the people who said they believe in the MAGA vision, the MAGA mentality that he laid out, his criticism of the Bush-Cheney foreign policy, the constant permanent war from the deep state – the war machine and the military-industrial complex, all that's gone, gone from the MAGA lips in order to cheer for what Trump is doing. 

I understand the temptation involved in that, I understand that if you are happy that your president is doing a lot of what you hoped he would do, you're very reluctant to criticize him. There's also a big economic factor in independent media, which is if you did build an audience based on Trump supporters, and then you turn around and start criticizing him sometimes you're going to alienate a lot of your audience, and a lot of people are afraid to do that. They get imprisoned by the audience they've created because they purposely have set out to create a partisan pro-Trump or pro-Biden or pro-Cuomo, whatever, audience, and they're there to hear praise of those people, not criticism of them. 

But if you don't want to be a fraud if you want to have any credibility in what you claim, someday there's going to be a Democratic president, you stand up again and start screaming that you're anti-war and don't want foreign wars and don' like censorship. No one's gonna take you seriously. Why would they? They just watched you do everything that you could possibly do to justify the very things you claim to denounce – and I'm not saying all MAGA supporters are doing that, I know some who aren't, I respect the ones who aren't, but there's a lot of them and the fact that we're two months into the Trump administration and the only person in the group who said, “Wait a minute, why are we bombing Yemen?” – like, what does that have to do with America First and American interests? – was JD Vance, someone who has no real authority. And because of that, they ran roughshod over him and ignored him and by the end, he was saying, “Okay, I'm on board. I won't express any disagreements publicly and I'm praying for the success of our mission.” And that gives you a real sense of the very traditionally militaristic foreign policy that a lot of these long-time establishment Republicans who Trump built his cabinet with have, and it shows that they are really getting their way. 

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It shouldn't surprise anybody that the Trump administration is deporting people who are in the country illegally and they're doing so in an aggressive manner. After all, if you had to pick one issue, one promise, that was Trump's signature issue ever since he emerged on the political scene, it would be deporting illegal aliens. That was the very first thing he talked about when he descended that escalator in Trump Tower and gave the speech that propelled him to the start of the polls. He has a democratic mandate for it, he was twice elected on that promise. Polls show that they want that. 

The reality is, though, despite all these showy controversies, these flamboyant distractions, there are no mass deportations taking place. The rate of deportations under Trump is similar to, even a little bit less than, it was under Biden for this time period. Part of the reason is that Trump has succeeded in virtually shutting the border, so there aren't a lot of people entering the country illegally over the border and that counted for a lot of the deportations Biden has done, but the numbers are nowhere near what anyone can consider mass deportation in the scope of how many illegal aliens there are in the United States. Maybe that number will increase, but it's not now. There doesn't seem to be a lot of urgency to that. 

What we're getting instead are these side shows, almost an exploitation of the promise to engage in mass deportations. The first one was going to Colombia and targeting for deportation, not people who were in the United States illegally, but people who are in the United States very legally, with student visas, with work visas, even with green cards, which are considered permanent resident status. And they started deporting those people for the crime of protesting, you'll never guess which country, the one that half of the things we talk about as a nation end up focusing on, which is Israel. 

So, there's been a lot of deportation controversy surrounding deporting people in the U.S. legally, which has nothing to do with Trump's mass deportation promise and then you have a controversy that has been created, not because Trump deported illegal aliens because the deportation of illegal aliens is always meant, not just in the United States, but essentially every country in the democratic world, taking people inside the country illegally and sending them back to their country of origin, meaning where they're a citizen. So, if you deport Guatemalans, they get deported back to Guatemala, if you deport illegal aliens who are Chinese, you deport them back to China, etc. That's how deportation works, that deportation means. 

As we know, and we reported this last week at length, that's not what the Trump administration is doing. Over the weekend, last weekend, they took 237 Venezuelans, who are not citizens of El Salvador, who have never been citizens of El Salvador, probably in every case, certainly most of them have never been to El Salvador or have nothing to do with El Salvador, and they didn't deport them just to go back to their countries; they purposely deported them to a third-party country that they have nothing to do with and paid the El Salvadoran government to put them into one of the world's worst, most notorious, and abusive prisons, from where the El Salvadoran president, essentially the dictator of El Salvador, said they very well may never leave. That's what that prison is for, it's intended to completely strip people of their humanity and ignore human rights or principles concerning prisons. 

The argument of the Trump administration as to why they sent them to prison was because they were all members of a violent Venezuelan drug gang, Tren de Aragua. The problem with that claim is that they were accusing people of severe criminality without any kind of evidentiary hearing where they were going to present the evidence demonstrating this accusation was true and giving the accused the opportunity to contest it. 

So, the Trump administration comes in and says, “Oh, look, he has a tattoo that is associated with this gang” and the person accused can say, “No, actually, this is a tattoo of my favorite soccer team, Real Madrid,” that is worldwide known and the ICE agents misinterpreted it, which is exactly what happened, at least in one case. 

So, the problem here is not the Trump Administration deporting illegal aliens, the problem is the Trump Administration sending people to life in prison with zero due process, zero opportunity for them to contest the accusations against them. As a result, all we’re left to do is to piece together whatever evidence emerges in the media, or from their families, or from the lawyers, and say, wait a minute, there's at least serious doubt about this person, and this person and this person and this person. It seems very unlikely that they're actually in Tren del Agua. Unfortunately, the government didn't have to prove anything, and they didn't have a chance to disprove it. They were just swept onto a plane and thrown into that prison where now no U.S. court can even order them released because the El Salvadoran government can obviously ignore U.S. court orders. 

The Trump administration's response to all of this was once a judge, a federal district court judge, who as a reminder is appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate, ordered an injunction against this program – in fact, ordered those detainees not to be taken to El Salvador – they took them to El Salvador anyway. And the judge as a result extended his injunction on this program saying, “You cannot deport people to life in prison without some kind of a hearing, without some opportunity for them to go to court and argue that they're being wrongfully accused.” 

There's been a major Trump White House media war and a MAGA social media war on the particular judge who ruled this way, calling him a far-left judge, even though he has so many hearings, some of which have been in favor of decisions which are far from left, some of which have been against the Mueller investigation, some of which had been in favor of Trump. But the way our legal system works is that if you want to sue the government, you can't go right to the Supreme Court, you can't go to an appellate court. You have to go to a federal district court judge. That's where essentially, with very few exceptions, every legal case originates. Federal district court judges absolutely have the power to enjoin the federal government from doing something – in fact, conservatives constantly went into federal court under the Clinton administration, under the Obama administration and under the Biden administration to ask a district court judge to issue and often succeeded in getting a district court judges to issue an injunction blocking what the Biden administration wanted to do, not just for that district, but nationwide. 

This idea that federal district court judges have no power or authority to enjoin the federal government from violating the law or the Constitution, nobody has ever thought this before. This is always how our court system has worked at least since Marbury v. Madison, which resolved the question of who interprets the Constitution – the courts did and ever since that has been how our legal system has worked and both sides have fully taken advantage of that by getting the other party's president's policies invalidated or declared unconstitutional. And yet, there's outrage over this injunction. 

From AP:

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President Donald Trump on Monday questioned the impartiality of the federal judge who blocked his plans to deport Venezuelan immigrants to El Salvador, leveling his criticism only hours before his administration will ask an appeals court to lift the judge’s order.

Just after midnight, Trump posted a social media message calling for Chief Judge James Boasberg to be disbarred. Trump reposted an article about Boasberg’s attendance at a legal conference that purportedly featured “anti-Trump speakers.”

The judge, meanwhile, refused Monday to throw out his original order before an appeals court hearing for the case. Boasberg ruled that the immigrants facing deportation must get an opportunity to challenge their designations as alleged members of the Tren de Aragua gang. He said there is “a strong public interest in preventing the mistaken deportation of people based on categories they have no right to challenge.” (AP News. March 24, 2025.)

That's all he's saying is before you can put someone in prison based on the government say-so that these people are members of this violent gang that you've declared a terrorist organization, they have to have an opportunity to disprove that accusation. 

That decision was appealed by the Trump Justice Department, to the D.C. Court of Appeals. We have 13 different appellate courts in the United States. The D.C. Court Of Appeals is for D.C. It typically rules on federal government action. It's considered the most prestigious court of all the Court of Appeals courts right below the Supreme Court. One of the three judges who sat on the panel, one of them was a Trump appointee, Justin Walker. 

 I’ve attended a lot of oral arguments; I've participated in a lot of oral arguments as a lawyer and I've covered a lot of oral arguments as a journalist. Honestly, I’m serious here, I don't recall an oral argument where the judges on the panel were so blatantly and glaringly opposed to everything the government lawyers were saying. 

Oftentimes, they'll try tough questions for each side and a lot of times you walk away not really knowing how they're going to rule. Sometimes you walk away knowing how they’re going to rule because they were somewhat more assertive with one side than the other. In this hearing, they just badgered the DOJ lawyer, rejecting aggressively everything that he was saying. Then, when the immigrant's lawyers from the ACLU and elsewhere stood up to speak, they basically kept saying, “We already agree with you, you don't really need to keep saying this.” 

Here is just one of the exchanges, courtesy of C-SPAN, which broadcast the hearing, that's where I listened to it, of this Trump appointee, Justin Walker, as he essentially sides with the Venezuelans about the right to due process. And by the way, this is one of the lawyers for the Venezuelan immigrants who are describing why due process is so urgent here. Then you'll hear the judge interject

Video. Hon. Justin Walker, C-SPAN. March 24, 2025.

This is the crux of the case. Their only argument is look, we don't dispute the government's right to deport people in the country illegally, we don't even dispute their right to imprison people if they're part of a criminal gang or an organization designated as a terrorist organization. What we're arguing is that the people accused before they get thrown away into a foreign country and disappear forever in one of the worst prison systems in the world, for life, or indefinitely, have to have the right before they're put there to appeal to a court and say, “We want a hearing to demonstrate that the accusation against us is false.” And the judge on the panel, who's a Trump appointee, interjected and said, “I don't know why you keep talking about this because there's no dispute from this bench that every single person that they propose to deport to El Salvador has the right to an Article III hearing before they're deported where the evidence has to be considered.” 

Just by the way, last week, my friends Saagar Enjeti and Krystal Ball, the co-host of “Breaking Points,” had a quite vociferous debate, twice in fact, about this issue with Krystal arguing against these deportations to El Salvador and Saagar arguing in favor. I listened to both, I went and talked to Saagar, and explained to him my reasons why I thought he was wrong.

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To his immense credit, he asked me to come on the show, where I could basically yell at him and tell him why he's wrong and he actually during the conversation we had, even before, was starting to say, “You know what, maybe I'm being convinced, I'm understanding these arguments better now,” he kind of said. I am very emotional about illegal immigration like a lot of people are and I just want the problem solved but it is true we can't violate the Constitution or basically process the right to do it and to his great credit, he invited me on, to the playful title that Breaking Point put up was Glenn Greenwald's schools Saagar on deportation. 

A lot of people thought that that was the staff passive-aggressively rebelling against Saagar. In fact, he was the one who wrote it, knowing that that would bring a lot of traffic to the segment, but we did hash it out. Ryan Graham was there as well for about 25 minutes and kind of at the end, Saagar said, “You know what, I feel like I'm probably wrong on this issue. I'm starting to understand why this can't be that you can just throw people into an El Salvadorean prison with no opportunity for them to say that I've been wrongly accused of being part of a drug gang.” Otherwise, the president could just pick up anybody. 

Anyway, I recommend the “Breaking Points” debate I did earlier today because a lot of these issues are really hashed out.

[…]

I see a lot of Trump supporters arguing that district court judges should not have the power to make decisions that bind the entire federal government, the president, the executive branch; nobody elected them, etc., etc. As I said earlier, the Trump supporters, the conservative movement, frequently went into federal court under every democratic administration for decades, including Joe Biden's, and asked a single federal judge in a single federal district to enjoin, to stop Biden’s policy, not for just one district, but for the entire country and they often succeeded in getting it. No conservative back then ever said, “Oh, federal district court judges don't have the right to stop U.S. government policy” because, again, if you want to sue the U.S. government and get an injunction, stop them from doing something you believe is illegal or unconstitutional, you have to go to a federal district court. That's the only one that can rule in the first instance. If the government thinks that the injunction is wrong, the solution is not to ignore it but to appeal. That's how the rule of law functions. 

There's this other narrative that the judges who are ruling against the Trump administration are all left-wing judges. They're all leftists carrying out a political agenda and a political war against Trump. So, this is the On Data and Democracy, which compiled data that reveals:

Measured Resistance: Data Reveals Cross-Ideological Judicial Opposition to Trump Administration

The cross-ideological judicial pushback challenging Trump’s narrative. (On Data and Democracy. March 20, 2025.)

They have both liberal and conservative judges ruling against Trump, two of the four judges targeted for impeachment are actually right of center. You will see a lot of these people for Trump here, conservatives for Trump, who have been ruling against him and you'll see Judge Boasberg, who again is being called a far-leftist, even though his judicial history doesn't remotely suggest anything like that, other judges as well, who are more to the conservative side. The percentage ruling against Trump by judicial ideology. So, this is by no means a far-left attack on the Trump administration. This is something that the judiciary is reacting to. 

Remember, the Trump administration, the Trump movement, and this is part of what I liked about it, vowed that they were going to go in and completely break the way things are being done. So, it is, I think, expected that judges are going to be giving more scrutiny to brand new ways of doing things. 

[…]

Here is David Sacks, who I know very well and have a lot of respect for. He's been a very knowledgeable, important and influential opponent of the war in Ukraine, among other things. I think he's really been influenced by a lot of the voices that we have on our show, Professor Mearsheimer and that kind of realist school that is opposed to intervention. But he is now part of the Trump administration. He's Trump's czar for crypto and artificial intelligence. And he said this on X earlier today:

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I just told you Trump celebrating a federal district court judge doing exactly that, invalidating an executive branch action, but remember the case that we talked about a lot where the Biden administration was coercing and pressuring Big Tech to censor dissent on a whole range of issues, including COVID? And the Biden Administration lost in the federal court, district court level. Conservative attorneys general for Missouri and Louisiana went and by the administration and asked the federal district court judge to enjoin that program, preventing the government from doing what they were doing with coercing Big Tech. The same David Sacks who just said the government would collapse if federal district court judges can override executive policy, the country would fall apart, was celebrating this because, like myself, he found the censorship regime to be so offensive to the Constitution and American values. 

Here's what he posted on X in July 2023:

A screenshot of a social media postAI-generated content may be incorrect.

 

Conservatives constantly got federal support judges to enjoin democratic administrations. 

I understand there are more such injunctions now, but that's because there are more Trump executive orders now. And Trump is not a status quo president. He's a status-quo-breaking president in a lot of ways. But if you want to complain, complain about the number. The principle cannot be challenged, which is that a federal district court judge has the right to issue nationwide injunctions, stopping a presidential policy. They always have had that power, both sides have used that power and celebrated it repeatedly. And now suddenly they want to create a new principle that federal district court judges should not have this power because it's Donald Trump now in office and they don't want to see him constrained in any way. That is anything but a principled or a constitutional-based argument. 

Watch this segment here.

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We could spend literally everyday documenting and announcing new Israeli atrocities in Gaza. There are all kinds of reporters who have covered wars for 30 years and aid organizations that have done so as well, who have said they have never seen destruction and indiscriminate killing of the kind that Israel has been doing in Gaza, you know all the statistics about the tens of thousands of children killed, 92% of all buildings destroyed or rendered completely compromised. It's essentially just turning Gaza into a parking lot, which a lot of Israelis at the beginning said and I was told, “Oh, don't listen to them. They're fringe voices, they're nothing but fringe voices.” That's exactly what the Israeli government planned to do, while at the same time they were cutting off food, water, electricity and medicine. So that things like amputations or surgeries without anesthesia on children became necessary because of those blockades, as well as malnutrition and mass starvation. 

Earlier today, the Israeli military targeted and then killed two young journalists in separate attacks in Gaza. Here from ANTIWAR.COM:

Israeli Military Kills Two More Journalists in Separate Attacks in Gaza

Israeli strikes killed Hossam Shabat, a reporter for Al Jazeera, and Mohammad Mansour, a correspondent for Palestine Today TV (ANTIWAR.COM. March 24, 2025.)

We've had a young Palestinian journalist on our program who is a correspondent for Drop Site News, the outlet founded by my former colleagues and my friends Ryan Grim and Jeremy Scahill that has been doing excellent coverage on the war in Gaza. He's Abubaker Abed, who you probably remember. He's 22, speaks fluent English and wanted to go into journalism before this whole thing started because he wanted to report on his favorite sport, which is soccer, only to have watched many, if not most members of the Palestinian soccer team killed over the last year and a half or so. And three days ago, or two days ago, he disappeared from the internet. People got very worried. It turns out he was suffering from severe malnutrition. 

There's no death worse than when your body starts shutting down because of hunger, starving to death is the most painful death there is. I was so impressed by him, he knows the danger of what he's doing. He continues to do it anyway. 

But another journalist, a young journalist, who's 24 Hossam Shabat is somebody I've been following very closely over the last 15 months to get the news about what's happening in Gaza. There are no foreign journalists allowed in. So, we have to rely on Gaza and Palestinian journalists where we have no idea what's taking place in Gaza, except what the IDF would tell us, which is the opposite of reliable. 

Hossam Shabat, the 24-year-old journalist who's been reporting every day on the destruction in Gaza was driving the car today, the IDF targeted his car, dropped a bomb on it or a drone pulled up the car and killed him instantly. And he was also a colleague of Drop Site. He had written messages at Drop Site, and he knew his life was in danger. Everyone in Gaza is in danger. It's a country of 2 million people and at least 60,000 have died, at least – every organization that says that's an undercount. So, about 3%, 4%, or 5% of the population extinguished with no end in sight. 

Being a journalist, in particular, has been extra dangerous because Israel targets journalists because they are dangerous to Israel: they show the world what the Israelis are doing. And so, Hossam had prepared a message, I don't know exactly when, but that he had asked his colleagues and his family to post if he was killed. And because he was killed, they now posted it. Here's what it says:

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Western journalists love to herald themselves as brave and heroic. Jim Acosta wrote that notorious book where he depicted himself as some sort of martyr constantly in danger because telling the truth in the air about Trump was so dangerous and the only thing that ever happened to him in his entire career was Trump said a few insulting side remarks about him. 

This is actual courage: you're 24 years old, you have a stream of death threats from the IDF saying if you continue to do this reporting, we're going to kill you, you've seen hundreds of journalists in Gaza be targeted with death, and yet you continue do the work knowing that it's so likely that you're going to be targeted with death that you actually prepare a statement ahead of time knowing that it is likely to be released in the event that you are killed. 

I don't even need to tell you what Israel's defense is: “These are all terrorists and Hamas operatives.” As we see with everything in Columbia, if you protest the Israeli war in Gaza, if you denounce it, if you're an effective critic of Israel, automatically you're a terrorist and you're pro-Hamas. That's what those terms mean. 

Here was the IDF October 23, 2024, just about five months ago: “Documents Expose 6 Al Jazeera Journalists as Terrorists in the Hamas and Islamic Jihad Terror Organizations” (Israel Defense Forces. October 23, 2024.)

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And one of the people they listed was Hossam Shabat. There you see the six journalist and he is in the lower left-hand corner. 

There have been very few Western journalistic outlets objecting to any of this, even though in every other instance they would, you may remember that a Wall Street Journal reporter was detained in Russia for about nine months and they never stopped talking about it, and I don't blame them for that. That’s their duty, especially the Wall Street Journal’s, and he was released. Tuck Carlson went to interview Putin and spent the last 10 minutes of the interview badgering Putin to release him. 

Journalists do that. They stand up for other journalists. Very few though have stood up for the Gazan journalists who have been targeted and killed by Israel for obvious reasons. People are very afraid to criticize Israel in the United States. The Committee to Protect Journalists, though, has done so somewhat and here is what they released today:

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

As of March 24, 2025, CPJ’s preliminary investigations showed at least 173 journalists and media workers were among the more than tens of thousands killed in Gaza, the West Bank, Israel, and Lebanon since the war began, making it the deadliest period for journalists since CPJ began gathering data in 1992. (Committee to Protect Journalists. March 24, 2025.)

So, more journalists killed in this conflict since 1992 – since they've been counting. 

Tammy Bruce is the spokesperson for the U.S. State Department, replacing Matthew Miller, though sounding awful like him, especially when it comes to Israel, and we have the video where she was asked today about the killing of these two journalists. Essentially, every time Israel does something horrific – kills aid workers, foreign aid workers, people with the U.N. and this is going back to the Biden administration as well – the State Department will say, “Oh yeah, we really regretted it. It's absolutely terrible. It's so tragic. Yes, it's being done with our money and our weapons.” But even though Israel is the one who keeps killing these people, it's all the fault somehow of Hamas. Here's what she said today: 

Video. Tammy Bruce, US Department of State. March 24, 2025.

I think one of the most repulsive things that I hear when I see the U.S. government under Biden and now Trump, justifying every single thing Israel does by appealing to this “never again” slogan, is that they seem to think that ‘never again’ means, or that the war crimes conventions created after World War II mean and cover only Jews; that from now on you can't touch a hair on the head of a Jew because Never Again means that will never happen and war crimes were created only to protect Jews from what happened in the Holocaust. 

If you go back and look at the Nuremberg trials where they punished and killed Nazi war criminals, all the prosecutors in the United States and from other allied countries, the judges all said, “What we're doing here will only matter, will only be just if the principles we're creating apply to every single country in the future, including the ones who are part of the prosecution.” 

This did not mean that any violence against Jews suddenly invoked the horrors of the Holocaust. Other people can impose war criminality and mass slaughter, not just people who do so to Jews, and actually a Jewish state can do that as well. 

The idea that, “Oh, everything was so nice and wonderful and peaceful in this region until Hamas attacked on October 7,” killing 800 civilians and the rest of IDF soldiers and armed agents of the state, if that's the thing that you focus, that one-day killing of 800 civilians versus the 60,000 who have died in Gaza at least, the targeting of journalists, the slaughter of children, the destruction of all of the infrastructure, that you only go back to that one-day because everything was so peaceful when Hamas attacked when in reality Israel had bombed Gaza repeatedly throughout 2023, before October 7, just like they did in 2022, and 2021, and 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2014  on a remarkable level, – not what competes with this, but the Israelis have been bombing the crap out of the Palestinians for decades, blockading them, keeping them tracked in Gaza brutally occupying the West Bank. Believing that this war started on October 7 is like propaganda, like the war in Ukraine began in February 2022 when the Russians invaded, and nothing ever happened of any kind of hostility before that. 

But to stand there and “Hey, you just killed two young journalists by targeting them.” Isn't that a war crime? Say, “All I care about is October 7” and that whatever Israel does, they can go and slaughter as many babies as they want, we're gonna blame Hamas and we're gonna keep paying for Israel's war, we're going to keep arming them to do all of this.

I don't know what happened to America First, by the way. You would think America First would mean like, hey, we're not going to give billions and billions and billions of dollars to Israel, we’ll instead spend it at home on our own citizens. Remember all of that? And they're cutting aid to every foreign country they can find except for Israel. It sounds like anything but America First to me. 

Besides what they did in Gaza with these two young journalists, in the West Bank, where there has been an amount of violence and destruction – burning people's homes down, expelling them from their land – while the whole world recognizes the West Bank not as Israel, but as belonging to the Palestinians, but obviously Israel doesn't care about international law because it has the largest, richest, and most powerful country and history in the United States fully in captive to it, fully paying for it, fully arming it, fully protecting it, why would they have to worry? 

They have been open about the fact that they're looking not just to expel Palestinians from Gaza, but also from the West Bank. They want that land for themselves. They already occupy larger and larger parts of Syria and Lebanon. It's just a layman's realm that they are seeking. 

In the West Bank, as you probably know, there was a film that was produced by an Israeli Jew and a Palestinian living in the West Bank that was designed to document the apartheid treatment of the West Bank by illustrating the vastly different rights that this Israeli Jew has versus this Palestinian in the west bank. 

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It was a documentary, “The Other Land,” that won the Oscar just a couple of months ago for Best Documentary. It hasn't found American distribution because theaters are afraid to show it when a theater in Miami Beach said that they were going to show it, the mayor tried to cancel the lease of the theater as punishment for showing this film even though it won an Oscar because it reflects poorly on Israel. Israel hates this film. Obviously, the Israeli who produced it has done something very courageous, but so has the Palestinian producer, knowing how Israel would react. 

One of the producers of this film today – who actually won the award itself because when a documentary wins the Academy Award, the producers of the films are the ones who actually get the Oscar, so he's the one who got the Oscar – was attacked brutally and practically lynched by Israeli settlers who have just occupied land that doesn't belong to them and they keep occupying it with the encouragement and protection of the Israeli government and the Israeli military and he was essentially very close to being killed. I think his life is still at risk. 

So, the idea that this Palestinian who just won an Oscar for a film critical of Israel ended up getting attacked by Israeli settlers and then, in the ambulance, the IDF dragged him out and arrested him and he disappeared is the level where we're at with Israel. 

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I just want to make one last point, which is that RFK Jr., who I had on my show when he was a candidate running for the Democratic primary, and whose health agenda I was largely supportive of, got into office, the Secretary of Health and Human Services. I was a strong advocate for his confirmation, and he had an agenda called “Make America Healthy Again.” There was a long list of important and impressive but difficult achievements he hoped to accomplish, things like combating chronic disease among Americans and child obesity, waging war on the regulatory capture by Big Pharma and Big Ag, forcing the removal of dangerous additives in the American food supply that don't exist anywhere else, re-examining and subjecting to much greater scrutiny certain medications that have been approved by a process that was sketchy because of how the pharmaceutical company, Big Pharma. 

Here's what RFK Jr., the Secretary of Health and Human Services, posted earlier this month:

A screenshot of a computer screenAI-generated content may be incorrect.

Such an Orwellian post because of the way the Trump administration is dealing with what they call antisemitism on college campuses, trying to eliminate bigotry, as though that can be done just like Democrats tried to eliminate racism, and are doing so by forcing universities to implement much more rigid speech codes, much more expanded definitions of antisemitism that outlaw a whole variety of common critiques of Israel.

For RFK Jr. to define that as an advancement of free speech and battling censorship on college campuses when it actually is censorship on college campuses was unbelievably ironic. But the fact that the first, one of the first public announcements he made as Secretary of Health and Human Services had nothing to do with the “Make America Healthy Again” agenda that I just described, spoke volumes. 

And then he went back to X earlier today to make an announcement, again, not about childhood obesity or chronic disease or Big Ag or Big Pharma, or anything. This is what he said instead:

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One of the things Columbia was forced to agree to was to adopt a radically expanded definition of antisemitism, the kind that they already have adopted in the EU that prevents you from saying Israel is a racist endeavor. You can say that about the United States, China, Peru or any other country in the world, just not about Israel. You're not allowed to observe that certain American Jews like, say, Ben Shapiro or Bari Weiss, just to pick two random examples, seem to have greater loyalty to Israel than the United States. That's one of the things that's now barred as antisemitism to say. You're not allowed to criticize Israel in a way that suggests you're applying a double standard to it, meaning you criticize Israel, but don't hold other countries to that same, that too is antisemitism. 

You're not allowed to compare what the Israeli government is doing to the crimes of the Nazis, even though the whole purpose of the Nuremberg trials was to use that as a historical precedent to blow the whistle and to alert people to similar crimes. That is not allowed. 

You can say that about the United States, you can say the United States are acting like Nazis, you can say the Russians are, you can say the Ukrainians are, or you can say the British are. Pick whatever country you want and say that about them. Feel free. Have a party calling it racist, comparing it to not just not this one country – that you are not allowed to do because now the Trump administration is demanding the application of more rigid speech codes to protect a particular minority and to eliminate bigotry after mocking the left and Democrats and liberals for doing exactly that for every other single minority group for a full decade. 

It just shows you the obsession of the U.S. government with this single foreign country. I mean, it's one thing for Marco Rubio to do it, or Elise Stefanik to do it, or National Security officials to do it. It's still kind of weird that they're so obsessed with Israel, but at least they're talking about their actual jobs. RFK is the Health and Human Services Secretary; he excited so many people based on an agenda having to do with American health. However, twice now, the very few public pronouncements he's made, it's both been about antisemitism on college campuses, the need to curb it, and the October 7 holocaust. 

At some point, I mean, it's already happening, but at some point, Americans are going to really start asking, why does Israel play such a vital central role? Why is the U.S. government constantly talking about it? Why is it sending billions of dollars a year to that foreign country? Why are they making special rules just for this one group of people and just of those foreign countries? 

If you're worried about antisemitism, this is what's going to fuel it. Telling people that they're now outlawed from criticizing Israel, telling them that they are not allowed to talk about Israel, that every criticism they raise is antisemitic, telling them they have to send billions and billions of dollars a year to Israel, even after the Trump administration and the MAGA movement was all about let's stop giving our money to foreign countries and keep it here and spend it on our own country's welfare, at some point that's going to be realized. 

It already is. The approval rating for Israel is at its lowest point ever in the history of Gallup polling and we showed you that two weeks ago. Watching even these kinds of ancillary cabinet members in the Trump administration, with nothing to do with foreign policy, continuously make pronouncements to serve Israel and show how concerned they are about it, is just further fueling the fire that's going to lead to people, rightfully so, asking why this foreign country has such a grave hold on our politics on a bipartisan basis and why it is that even every day you turn the internet, you see them blowing up children, blowing up journalists, blowing up buildings, destroying all of society, occupying multiple countries, bombing multiple countries all with American weapons and American money. Why it is that the United States is so blindly devoted to this foreign country and why do American politicians seem to have a much greater willingness to criticize our own government than this foreign government on the other side of the world? 

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For years, U.S. officials and their media allies accused Russia, China and Iran of tyranny for demanding censorship as a condition for Big Tech access. Now, the U.S. is doing the same to TikTok. Listen below.

Listen to this Article: Reflecting New U.S. Control of TikTok's Censorship, Our Report Criticizing Zelensky Was Deleted
3 hours ago

@ggreenwald Glenn, could you do a segment on the escalations between India-Pakistan sometime soon? As someone who’s not an expert on the history I would appreciate your trusted perspective on it, possibly with guests laying out either side’s position on it.

Interesting discussion last night. I had not realized Harvard's historical funding situation, and I think we need to DOGE that. They have enough money to get by on their own now. The general consensus of those in the live chat seemed to be to cut the funding, and stop telling them what to do. Great discussion!
Looking forward to the transcript!

Here's a lovely, short video of a man playing music for animals, including horses, elephants, lemurs, and more. It turns out that even horses enjoy the Rolling Stones' song Wild Horses😁
https://substack.com/@sailingbeyondknowledge/note/c-108597224?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=1ngpds

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Christopher Rufo: On Civil Liberties, the American Founding, Academic Freedom, and More
System Update #450

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Tonight: Regardless of what you think of him or really about any issue, there's no denying the profound influence that tonight's guest, Christopher Rufo, has had on conservative politics and state and federal policy more broadly, though he has often focused on educational debates and educational institutions – Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, for example, appointed him to a key position to transform that state's New School from an institution largely producing left-wing thought to one that is more aligned with conservative educational dogma and policy. He was also instrumental in publicizing the plagiarism of Harvard President Claudine Gay, which, along with issues regarding campus Israel protests and antisemitism, led to her firing after only six months in that position. He has become one of the most influential voices shaping the views of leading conservative politicians and media figures. 

Rufo appeared on our program once before: back in 2023, where we spent an hour exploring his core beliefs and goals, some of which I agree with and some of which I do not. The conversation was spirited but unfailingly civil, and I think, illuminating of some of the controversies surrounding his work. 

What promoted Rufo's appearance tonight were comments that I had made about him and other right-wing figures in an interview I gave about the Trump administration to Reason Magazine. Rufo saw those comments, noted them and objected to them on X. It led to a back and forth but it became rapidly apparent - at least to me - that social media was the absolute worst venue to try to sort through those issues we were discussing, some of which have a lot of complexity and nuance to them: things like the core values of the American Founding, the values and views that most influenced the founders and how all of those questions apply to our current political debates, especially over civil liberties and the freedom of academic institutions. 

So, I suggested that we remove the conversation to a platform more suitable for a constructive exchange and he quickly agreed to come on this program for us to do so. 

His official biography does not really capture Rufo's influence and accomplishments, but for those unfamiliar with it, he is a senior fellow and director of the Initiative on Critical Race Theory at the Manhattan Institute. He is also a contributing editor of City Journal, where his writings explore a range of issues, including critical race theory, gender ideology, homelessness, addiction, crime, and the decline of American cities. He has been published in Fox and the New York Post and has been the subject of numerous corporate media profiles, the most recent of which is a lengthy interview he gave to the New York Times just last month. He's the author of the New York Times bestselling book, “America's Cultural Revolution,” and as a filmmaker, he has directed four documentaries for PBS, Netflix, and international television, including America Lost, which tells the story of three forgotten American cities. 

The issues we hope to discuss are, in my view, some of the most consequential for American politics and the West more broadly, and I'm very much looking forward to our exploration of our agreements and our disagreements on all of those questions. 


G. Greenwald: Chris, good evening, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for coming on and agreeing to do this.

So, it's interesting, when I was thinking about how to do this, how to conduct our discussion, the issues that we discussed, even though it was just a few tweets, were so far reaching and kind of complex that I had so many things I wanted to talk to you about, so the hard part was figuring out what to kind of focus on. 

There was a series of tweets that you posted in response to that interview I had given in Reason, where I basically said, and it was part of a larger conversation, I was asked specifically about you, that I think you're very shrewd and influential and successful operative and journalist but, to me, it seems like you've gotten to the point where you care more about this kind of Machiavellian quest for power than you do about principles. 

And in response, you said this:

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AD_4nXcOEpKRM--8xTmtxxxpZIh6D5VTD6vza9AEN0mSz-ZC9ShfneizvxtBhXHrQ8X6x-7qhfaL7yzw2XCNpPYBbKC3KEPQuYCHJ_2CoMxfO_t8jxXoFY2nn-Z8NJr657FdP60B_amh1mqk8MczwlgXaQ?key=pQIu-Amz3rzPmGu1T6DqxQ

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NIH Ends Fauci's Brutal Dog Experiments; MTG and Massie Shut Down Law to Criminalize Israel Boycotts
System Update #449

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

AD_4nXfOxGUsg7A_S3ddqbTf0xdGX7VXJr8EwP92b1AKf4pGAlS-rPMMzfUP43cO8VRoSDJmtnjafkjZkWLr6PIa5Uw8gm-Mk5Lf-NKu01__8JfL6RrzjdjMp0ZP7WIjgfVuB7hH0qMHePVkOb0VjUNIXME?key=b0Z6bGXfV7ehSQkOWJEvWQ

Former senior health official who lurked around Washington for 40 years, Anthony Fauci was, well before COVID, highly polarizing and, in many cases, widely disliked. When many of the truths of COVID and his behavior during that pandemic were revealed, he was jettisoned into an entirely new category of the hero/villain narrative that plagues so much of our politics. 

But one constant in his long career was that he was always a robust advocate for and a funder of – an ample funder of – some of the most grotesque, cruelest and pointless medical experimentations on animals in government labs paid for by the government, especially dogs. And when doing these experiments on dogs which have almost no medical value, they often chose on purpose for beagles as their breed of choice because as anyone who has spent any time with beagles will tell you, they have a particularly loving, docile and trustworthy instinct when they are with animals, which makes it very easy to deceive them. 

Justin Goodman is the Senior Vice President of Advocacy and Public Policy at White Coat Waste, is our guest to talk about the major win animal advocacy groups led by the very bipartisan White Coat Lab group scored today. The National Institute of Health, now run by Jay Bhattacharya, under the direction of HHS Secretary RFK Jr., announced that they were eliminating the last government-funded lab experiments on beagles: that was the lab that conducted the so-called barbaric septic shock experiment, and I'll save you the description until later. 

Then, Reason's magazine Matthew Petti wrote an excellent article today, a really good piece of journalism that broke down and analyzed the statute in very clear detail and concluded that it "would arguably be the most draconian measure of this kind to date". He is our second guest tonight. 

Some laws are so extreme and shocking that you can't actually believe anyone in Congress actually proposed them, and for me, this is one. As is true for most of the pro-Israel measures in Washington, it had a long list of co-sponsors from both parties. 

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AD_4nXc_Yo8Z6iDXaF7iic4CpePaVf7WorA4k4PnGQf-KFz6rZx_D63EeI-qWYw9vMSLVYFmsC59ghot91KUV9BOGxAhX2N-4lQ6lhxqAzMqJvY7TlF2ymQm2wwiPOg1nphRSejLGOunmYjO-H9xesUN?key=b0Z6bGXfV7ehSQkOWJEvWQ

 

Justin Goodman is the Senior Vice President of Advocacy and Public Policy at White Coat Waste Project, a non-partisan, non-profit organization that just got done heralding, explaining and it exposed and has held Dr. Fauci accountable for many things, including funding the Wuhan lab, as well as testing cruel, gratuitous, and pointless testing on dogs generally and beagles specifically. For more than two decades, Justin has led successful and award-winning grassroots and lobbying campaigns to end cruel taxpayer-funded experiments on dogs, cats, primates, and other animals. I've long been an admirer of that group and his work, and we're really delighted to have him join us tonight. 

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Glenn Takes Your Questions: Iraq War Lies, Judge Rebukes Trump, Ilham Omar Curses Reporters & More
System Update #448

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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As most of you know, Friday night is our Q&A show. We take questions submitted throughout the week by members of our Locals community. This week, the questions cover a very wide range of issues including the bizarre story told by former Senator Pat Leahy of Vermont about how he was secretly accosted by shadowy members of the deep state while jogging in 2003, and they directed him to proof that the Bush administration was lying about the proposed war in Iraq. Leahy cast a meaningless vote against the war because of what he saw, but never let the public know about the proof he was shown. 

We also have questions about yesterday’s very significant ruling by another Trump-appointed federal judge who ruled against the Trump administration. This one concluded that the administration lacks the authority even to invoke the wartime Alien Enemies Act, which is what the administration has been using to justify removing people from the U.S. and sending them to an El Salvador prison without so much as a trial. 

Finally, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota uttered very naughty words to a journalist from the Daily Caller, who walked up to her on the street, began filming her, asking her adversarial questions – a perfectly legitimate journalistic activity. Upon seeing the video and Omar's reaction, many conservatives – including many who have spent a decade calling journalists The Enemy of the People and cheering right-wing politicians who have scored journalists often aggressively and with verbal abuse – have now decided that Omar had failed to show journalists the respect and deference that they deserve as journalists. 

We'll examine this and other questions as well, as much as we can, time permitting. 

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The first question comes from @thefarside:

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I totally agree with that point of view and I've seen this happen many times before when senators and Congress members access classified material and they're too scared to show it to the public, even though they could do so on the floor of the Senate or the House enjoying absolute complete immunity: they cannot be prosecuted, criminalized, or arrested for anything said on the floor of Congress. It's legislative immunity. They could just go and reveal it, but they almost never do. They leave it up to people like Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, or other courageous whistleblowers to do it, even though they don't have immunity, while senators just conceal this information. 

So, here's what he wrote in his memoir, “The Road Taken” by Patrick Leahy. By the way, it's not a new memoir; it's from 2022, it was just a couple of years ago, but it just got resurfaced and started going viral on X. I think a lot of people didn't know about it. Who would sit down and read Patrick Leahy's book? I certainly didn't. 

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So, imagine you're just walking on the street with your wife. It's like an old couple walking in the street and out of nowhere, there are very fit joggers behind you. They are following you and they stop and say, “Hey, we hear you're bringing in briefings. How have those been going?” And you say, “Fine, but I can't talk about them.” They're like, “No, no worries. We don't want to talk about that. Just take a look at file 8. Have you seen that?”

He writes:

[…] It was obvious from the look on my face that I had not seen such a file. They suggested I should and that I might find it interesting. Quickly thereafter, I arranged to see File Eight, and it contradicted much of what I had heard from the Bush administration.

Days later, Marcelle and I were out walking again when the two joggers reappeared. After the opening greetings, they told me they understood I had seen File Eight and asked what did I think about it? It was the eeriest conversation I'd experienced in Washington. I felt like a senatorial version of Bob Woodward meeting Deep Throat—only in broad daylight.

I went through the usual disclaimers that I could not talk about any file and if such a file was available and so on. They said of course they understood, but they wondered if I had also been shown File Twelve, using a code word. […]

(The Road Taken, Patrick Leahy. 2022.)

 

They're like, “Hey, remember when we mentioned File Eight? We're glad you took a look at that. No, no, don't worry. We don't need to hear your opinion. We just want to know, you should look at file 12 too.” 

He says:

[…] Again, I think the look on my face gave them the answer. They apologized for interrupting our walk and jogged off.

The next day, I was back in the secure room in the Capitol to read File Twelve, and it again contradicted the statements that the administration, and especially Vice President Cheney, seemed to be relying on, and I told my staff and others that for a number of reasons I absolutely intended to vote against the war in Iraq.

(The Road Taken, Patrick Leahy. 2022.)

According to Patrick Leahy, he had been directed by mysterious deep state operatives, obviously, to classified files that had not been shown by the people briefing Congress on the Iraq War, both of which, he says, proved that the government was lying to the American people. 

You would think, I would think, that somebody in that position would be like, “Hey, I need to alert the American people to the fact that there are documents inside the government's file that prove that what Dick Cheney and George Bush were saying about the war in Iraq are lies.” 

Again, he had legal immunity; he could have read the whole file on the Senate floor and nothing would have happened. Even if he didn't have immunity, I would think you would be duty-bound when the government is selling a war to the population, a very serious invasion on the other side of the world, not a few bombs being dropped, and you have proof that what the government is saying is lying, but that's not what Patrick Leahy did and he admitted that in his book, not even realizing there's anything wrong with it. 

There's a woman on X who I find to be genuinely one of the smartest and most interesting X accounts to follow. Her X name is @villagecrazylady, but her name is Mel. She is very upfront. She does a podcast, a self-identified MAGA woman from the South. Yet, she believes the MAGA principle, she is vehemently opposed to all kinds of intervention, she's opposed to funding the war in Ukraine, funding Israel's war in Gaza, going to war with Iran, bombing Yemen, all the things that we were promised that Trump would do in foreign policy, she actually believes in it and insists on it and complains when it doesn't happen as it should. And she's just very smart. She's just always plugged into what I think are the right things, thinking about things that are really interesting, and I actually learned a lot from following her. I'm going to have her on the show soon. She was the one who alerted me to this. I think she was probably the one who alerted a lot of people to this, she said: 

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 I think what's really notable, too, is imagine that you're those two guys who obviously are risking their career, probably risking their liberty to try to make sure that Patrick Leahy sees, not just circumstantial evidence, but proof that the Bush-Cheney administration is lying about the key arguments they're trying to sell to the public to justify the invasion of Iraq. They put themselves on the line, they put themselves at risk because they apparently thought it was important for the truth to be known and they get Leahy to go read both of those files, and he just does nothing, nothing, to tell the public. He's just like, “Yeah, I'm going to vote no.” He didn't even tell his fellow senators. He didn't say a word. 

How pathetic is that? How cowardly is that? You run for the Senate, you're a career politician, you're old, you're in your 23rd term or whatever. Who cares? But don't you have any sense of duty at all? 

I don't want to be naive. I get that these are scummy politicians, very conniving. The more they stay around Washington, probably the fewer principles they believe they can operate on, the more kind of just pragmatic and cunning or whatever they become. But you're talking here about the most serious war that the United States has fought since it left Vietnam and you have the evidence in your hands that the government is lying yet again, like they did with the Vietnam War and the Gulf of Tonkin, and you just sit and say nothing? 

But there's a counterexample. When Daniel Ellsberg discovered the Pentagon Papers in the late 1960s, a multi-volume, tens of thousands of pages compiled by the Pentagon, the Pentagon Papers concluded and members of the highest levels of the government also knew under Lyndon Johnson and then Richard Nixon that there was no way the U.S. could win the war in Vietnam; at most, they could fight to a standstill. Yet they were constantly telling the public that was growing tired of this war, like, “Hey, we're losing all our young men who are being drafted, we're killing huge numbers of people, we're spending tons of money, there's social unrest. What is going on?” So, the Pentagon would say, “Oh, don't worry. We're close to winning. We're like six months away from winning. We're making immense progress.” In the Pentagon Papers, though, they were saying the exact opposite. They knew they could not win, so it's the same thing. 

Daniel Ellsberg had proof in his hands that the American government was lying to the people about the Vietnam War. Ellsberg had a very high position in the government. He had a PhD in nuclear policy from Harvard, zand he worked at the highest levels of the Rand Corporation, had some of the most sensitive documents inside the government and he did what Patrick Leahy wouldn't do.

He wasn't a senator; he didn't have any sort of parliamentary immunity, but he tried to get members of Congress to read it on the floor, as he couldn't, he went to The New York Times, The Washington Post, and they published parts of it. But then finally, he found Senator Mike Gravel, a Republican from Alaska, who was like, “No, you know what? I have parliamentary immunity, and this is what it's for. The public has a right to know that the American government is lying.” 

By the way, Daniel Ellsberg was charged with espionage, they tried to imprison him for life and the only reason his case was dismissed was because the Nixon administration was discovered to have burglarized the office of his psychoanalyst to try to find dirt on the private life of Daniel Ellsberg and the judge, because of that misconduct, dismissed the case, but had the judge not done so, Daniel Ellsberg probably would have been in prison for the rest of his life. He just died about 18 months ago at the age of 94. 

I had the honor of working with him when we created the Freedom of the Press Foundation together, he was unbelievably smart. One of the smartest people I've ever met. And even at like ‘91 or ‘92, he would attend these board meetings we had at the Freedom the Press foundation and just present the most complex arguments possible. 

So, he got Senator Gravel to read it from the floor of the Senate, and this is what that kind of bravery looks like. 

Video. Sen. Mike Gravel, US Senate Chamber. June 21, 1971.

So, that was the prelude to him then reading the Pentagon Papers into the record. You can be uncomfortable with, or even mock if you want, the very emotional display of Senator Gravel there. He was crying in the middle of that statement. But I would suggest that that is a far more admirable, noble and understandable reaction than what Senator Leahy did. 

I mean, every day, if you're a senator in the late 1960s, early 1970s, you're getting intelligence briefings about how unbelievably horrific the Vietnam War is: 58,000 Americans killed, two million Vietnamese, at least, killed. I mean, just the use of biological agents like Agent Orange, it was a brutal, savage, barbaric war, and the people who were in there, in the middle of the jungles and rivers of Vietnam, had no idea why they were fighting, why they were being killed on the other side of the world. 

So, if you're aware of information that the public can perhaps use to understand they're being lied to and hopefully stop the war, I think it's absolutely commendable to think about what's happening to human beings. I mean, that's a humanistic response. 

He didn't just cry about it, he actually tried to do something about it. Even though they have parliamentary immunity, reading top-secret Pentagon documents about a war in the middle of Washington, D.C., you would never know for certain that that's going to be honored. 

Here in Brazil, there's just a very similar parliamentary immunity privilege that people in Congress and the Senate enjoy. A couple of months ago, a member of Congress went to the microphone to speak at the tribunal where he heavily criticized the authoritarian chief judge of the Supreme Court, even though he's not technically the chief judge; he acts that way, Alexandre de Moraes. And then, shortly after, Alexandre de Moraes ordered the police to investigate him and to try to convict him for having spoken there. And their argument was, “Yeah, they have parliamentary immunity, but it's not absolute.” 

There's another case that I'm very familiar with, that I've had personal dealings with, that to this day sickens me and I just want to tell you about. 

For about two or three years before the Snowden reporting started, before Edward Snowden risked his liberty to come forward and show his fellow citizens the truth about how the government was spying on them with no limits and no warrants, and risking his life in prison to do it, two different senators, Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado, went around hinting that, “Oh, the NSA is doing some really bad stuff that if the American public knew about it, would be enraged by,” but they never said what it was. They could have done what Senator Gravel did and gone to the fore, but no, they just kept hinting. They would write emails, be in interviews, they would go write up ads saying, “Oh, if you only knew how they were interpreting the Patriot Act and what they were allowing the NSA to do, you would be enraged.” But they didn't have the courage to say it. 

And it was only once Snowden came forward and we started publishing reporting about what the NSA was doing based on his courageous act, did they start coming forward and say things. The headline of The Washington Post, July 28, 2013, is: “With NSA revelations, Sen. Ron Wyden’s vague privacy warnings finally become clear”. 

I mean, you know what? I reported on this topic for three years. It was a very important part of my career. I still pay very close attention to this violence debate but I could barely get through that. It was so ambiguous, so bereft of anything substantive that you could really understand what the government was doing, because he, too, was just a coward and then the minute we came out with that report, he's like, “I tried everything.” Yeah, everything except disclosing what you could have disclosed to let the American people know way before Edward Snowden came forward, so that he didn't have to spend his life in prison or Russia. 

People in the government, in the intelligence community, were trying to alert the public through Leahy that this proof existed, but he was too much of a coward to do anything about it. And so were Senators Wyden and Udall, whereas Senator Gravel wasn't. 

I just want to say the final thing: when Edward Snowden did their job for them and he comes forward, he doesn't dump it all on the internet, he is as careful as he can be, he gives it to journalists with very conservative instructions about only to use this very carefully, don't put anybody in danger, only use it to reveal to the public what they should know. And then he, of course, gets immediately indicted on multiple felony charges, including the Espionage Act, which would send him to prison for the rest of his life. 

They would ask Senator Wyden and Senator Udall, “Well, he revealed what you said should have been revealed. What do you think of him? Are you defending him? Do you think the prosecution would be dropped?” And they'd be like, “I'm not really going to talk about Snowden. I mean, he disclosed classified information. You can't have that.” – basically calling him a criminal for doing what he did only because they were too afraid to. 

These people are propellant. They'll let wars happen rather than step forward and confront any sort of risk or warrantless unconstitutional eavesdropping, as the courts ruled on American citizens with no warrants. And that's the kind of people that, unfortunately, with some exceptions, but very few, get to Washington and sit in both houses of Congress. 

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All right, here's the next question, from @Andante423: 

AD_4nXco5EeJOMpGfm0iJLTGIpawiHuFLRc_S_OLs5QNl7kBxJjO9bIpI7xGfhP16gqODI5Zk7CJgOPKkBtwQvRZcYfM_EzqXBUyAleR1JPhDq5CWil_tb7nlk7_DOvCqixu4pct0Qnlq1xQjUnpbNI7D7Q?key=MrBQyTUNLJMvWrwHZK6IMQrI

It's a great question. Thank you. 

Just to give you the context, because it's so important, all of you, of course, remember when Trump just picked up, ICE picked up, 238 Venezuelans, and then, just in the middle of the night, shipped them out of the United States on a plane to an El Salvador prison. They filmed these people having been dehumanized, being humiliated, having their heads shaved, kneeling on the floor and it's almost certainly the case that at least some of them weren’t guilty of being gang members, but they're in this prison that's designed to be permanent. It runs on slave labor; it's one of the most abusive ones. 

But when this got to the Supreme Court, the Supreme court said by a 9-0 ruling – so that includes Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, Justice Gorsuch, Justice Kavanaugh, all the conservatives’ favorite judges – “Even if you want to use the Alien Enemies Act, you still have to give these people a due process. You have to give them a hearing, advance notice of their intent to be removed and then their opportunity to go into court and present evidence that they’re not a gang member.” 

So, they already said you have to give them a court hearing; in this court hearing, the judges should decide two things. Number one: Does Trump have the right to invoke the Alien Enemies Act? It's supposed to be a wartime statute. It's only for wartime. The only three times it was invoked previously were the War of 1812, World War I and World War II. 

Just to give you a feel for how extremist this power is, that's what FDR used to order all Japanese Americans interned in concentration camps because they were suspected of being loyal to Japan, which is generally considered one of the most shameful acts of the 20th century – but at least there was a real war going on. 

When the lawyers for the Venezuelan detainees sued in federal court to argue that this law was invalidly invoked and they weren't gang members, they got the best judge they could have gotten. They got a judge appointed by Donald Trump in his first term. So, he's a Trump-appointed judge and you can imagine how conservative judges Trump appoints from Texas are. 

Yet that's the judge who yesterday said that there's no legal foundation for adopting and invoking the Alien Enemies Act because we're not actually in war. 

The Trump administration had to concoct a theory and their argument was we're basically at war with these international drug gangs that are invading our country. They're like an invading army. 

Here's the ruling from this Trump-appointed judge issued yesterday. 

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There you see the caption. It is J.A.V., which is one of the Venezuelan detainees that they want to deport, versus Donald Trump. It's quite long, but it's not actually a long opinion. You can read it. The link is here.

It explains why, based on the statute, the president cannot invoke this law, because it's only for wartime and we're not at wartime. It's as simple as that. 

I've seen a lot of conservatives questioning why the courts get to decide this. In part, it's because that's been how the Supreme Court and the judicial power have been interpreted for more than 200 years, going back to Marbury v. Madison, and if you think about it, it has to be this way. 

The purpose of the Constitution is to limit the powers of the federal government, to limit the powers of the president and Congress. The government can't do this, it can't do that, it cannot do the other thing. So, if the president ignores the constitution, let's say Joe Biden orders that all Trump supporters be rounded up and imprisoned with no trial, obviously a violation of the constitution, if you can't go to the courts and seek relief and ask the courts to declare that unconstitutional, who does that then? Where do you go? Where do you get relief? The president just starts ordering his political enemies imprisoned with no trial, no due process. Of course, it's the courts who have to say this is unconstitutional, therefore, it can't be done. 

That's how our system works. And it's all balanced. It's not like the courts are the supreme branches that sometimes people try and claim. It's the president who appoints the judges who are on the courts. The Senate has to confirm them. If they start abusing their power, they can be impeached. And federal court judges have been impeached before, not often, but they can, and they have been. 

On top of that, the courts really have no way to execute their decisions. They don't have an army, they don't have guns, they don't have any way to force a president. The president or Congress respects the credibility of the courts, and that's why court decisions are abided by. But if you're going to have a constitution and a set of laws, you need to have somebody who interprets what those are and who decrees what they are. You can't ask the president to rule in his own case, like, “Hey, Mr. President, are you violating the law? Are you violating the Constitution?” 

Obviously, tons of conservatives, many times, under Clinton, under Obama, under Biden, ran into court and asked federal court judges to put a stop to what those administrations were doing. 

It is true that there are a lot more of those rulings coming under Trump. You could make the argument that it’s because he has so many new policies that have tested and pushed the limits of the law. But that's how our system works. It works that way under every president. I do think picking people up in our country and sending them for life in prison in a country they have nothing to do with and have never been to, from where they'll never get out, is an extremist power and we definitely need judicial review. 

As the Court said, the president, despite not being able to use the Alien Enemies Act, has all the legal authority in the world to deport people who are illegally in the country. There is another set of laws, the Immigration and Nationality Act and others. That's how President Obama deported millions of people. He didn't use the Alien Enemies Act; he used the set of laws that are normally used for that. That's what the court is saying: it doesn't mean you can't deport people in the country illegally, it's your obligation, your right and your duty to do that, you just can't use this wartime power to do so because we're not at war, as the statute describes it. 

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All right, this one is from @MarcJohnson125, who says: 

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All right, so just to set the stage for this, so you can see what happened, for those of you who haven't, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar was walking on the street toward the Capitol, and it's very common for journalists to work there. That's one of the places you can ask members of Congress questions, even if they don't invite you into their office or agree to an interview. It's very often done. So, the reporter's not doing anything wrong here at all, I don’t think, but this is how Congresswoman Omar reacted: 

Video. Ilhan Omar, The Daily Caller. May 1, 2025.

Okay, it was a little bit of a snarky question. That's okay. Reporters can be snarky. They don't have to be super deferential, super respectful. He didn't assault her; he didn't do anything. But in return, yeah, she used a naughty word. It's a word you tell your nine-year-old kid not to use, but adults use that word. She wasn't aggressive about it. She wasn't violent, she didn't attack him, she didn't threaten him. He asked this question, she was bothered by it and she says, “I think you should fuck off.” And then he said, “Excuse me, what?” She didn't backtrack at all. 

And that was it, maybe not the best way to handle a journalist, I'll certainly accept that. Maybe a member of Congress should conduct themselves with more, whatever, decorum, if you want to say that. I mean, Trump campaigned throughout 2024 using every curse word he could think of in his rallies. So let's not invoke decorum unless the politicians you most admire are actually adhering to it as well. 

Here was Nancy Mace, who was questioned by a constituent, not a journalist even, but a constituent in her home district when she was at some sort of drugstore and here's what happened. 

Video. Nancy Mace, X. April 19, 2025.

All right, that seems unhinged to me, to be honest. He was very polite. He kept his distance. He wasn't the slightest bit aggressive. It's part of the duty of members of Congress and she's like very aggressive, right from the beginning, very hostile and out of nowhere, by the way, “I voted for gay marriage twice.” Why would you say that? I mean, yeah, he is pretty clearly gay but why would you bring that up? Why does that even enter your brain? And then by the end of it, she used the F-word for, I don't know, 10 times maybe, probably, and said other things as well. 

So, if you're going to be very upset by Ilhan Omar using an f-word with a journalist – we all know journalists deserve the greatest deference, the highest amount of respect – if that's the sort of thing that you really want to hold politicians to, like no naughty words, then you ought to be complaining about Trump, who curses more than any politician I've ever seen. And it doesn't bother me, by the way. Or what Nancy Mace did, which is, of all those things, like the most unhinged. 

Here's Charlie Kirk, yesterday, after he saw the video:

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Piers Morgan, the British subject who loves to spend his time commenting on American politics:

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Here's Libs of TikTok, always the beacon of perfect politeness and civility and respect for others. She says:

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That wasn't the question: whether they're going to. He said, “Should they?” Do you think that more should go? As I said, it was a snippy question, but who cares? 

These are the people – the Trump movement, the American right, Trump himself – who spent 10 years calling journalists the “enemy of the people,” which I don't disagree with and never bothered me. In fact, I can make an argument about why that's legitimate. But still, that's some very aggressive, hostile rhetoric to use about journalists. Republican politicians over the last 10 years have frequently scorned and insulted journalists. Trump insults every journalist who asks him a question. Everyone. And now they’re going to turn around and be like “A politician should not speak to a journalist in this manner. Journalists deserve the highest respect. She has no class.” 

How about Nancy Mace? Does she have class? Does Donald Trump have class? This is the kind of thing I really can't stand. I really can’t stand it. I just have some consistent standards, especially on these kinds of trivial issues, and to act like Ilhan Omar is some kind of heathen, some kind of threat to society! “She doesn't have gratitude toward America.” She's an American citizen. Yeah, she was born in another country and became an American citizen and the same is true of Elon Musk and Melania Trump and a lot of other people. She's still a full citizen like anybody else is.

To be honest, I thought what Ilhan Omar did was funny. I mean, I kind of thought that the whole thing with Nancy Mace was sort of funny. I think Trump is funny; like, loosen up. The rectum doesn't always have to be, like, so tightly closed when you're pretending to be offended by things. I think we want our politicians to be more human. This is how people speak. 

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All right, one last question. It’s from @Sambista. 

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So yeah, they're all doing great actually. All the ones you named and all the other dogs that you've gotten to know they're doing very well. I appreciate your asking. And yeah, I actually wish I could find a way to integrate the dogs into the show more, or something like wander around. Maybe Friday night is a good night to do it. We'll think about it. But yeah, appreciate your asking. 

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