Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
Drone Strikes on Moscow Signal Dangerous New Phase of Ukraine War. Plus: One of Russia’s Most Notorious Spies—a Whale—Resurfaces
Video Transcript
June 01, 2023
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Good evening. It's Tuesday, May 30. Welcome to a new episode of System Update, our live nightly show that airs every Monday through Friday at 7 p.m. Eastern, exclusively here on Rumble, the free speech alternative to YouTube. 

Tonight, we spend a lot of time on this program discussing the war in Ukraine because – how could we not? It is easily the most dangerous war for the U.S., the West, and the world, in decades. The Iraq war, which had nuclear power only on one side of the conflict, posed nowhere near the dangers that this war poses. One of the primary participants in the war, President Joe Biden, the chief proxy sponsor of Ukraine, himself, said in an unscripted moment back in October that this war has brought the planet closer to nuclear Armageddon than at any point since the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, 61 years ago. And then we just all moved on like that never happened. 

This war is the single most important political story of the year, and nothing is close to that title. How could it not be that? This is a proxy war between the nation with the largest nuclear power on one side, Russia, and the nation with the second largest nuclear stockpile on the other, the United States. There's this new conception that nuclear war is not really possible, that will only happen if a suicidal psychopath had full control over their use. But that is a delusion, a fairy tale, a belief that can arise only from the crudest and most extreme form of historical ignorance. 

The U.S. and USSR came very, very close less than an hour away, from nuclear war on at least two occasions during the Cold War, caused not by psychotic behavior, but by rational behavior triggered by miscommunication and misperceptions. That same hair-trigger, archaic Cold War systems are still in place. Washington and Moscow continue to have thousands of nuclear-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles pointed at each other’s large and midsize cities that are designed to be launched upon any belief that the other side is preparing to do so. The option of first using nuclear weapons, namely using them without even believing that the other side intends to use them, merely as a justified, offensive, or defensive tactic in the face of a threat perceived to be existential, is very much still on the table for war planners in both capitals. Indeed, during the 2017 general election in the UK, the Labor Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was lambasted by everyone for his statement that he would never consider the use of nuclear weapons as part of his nuclear national security strategy.

 The reason I continue to cover this war so much is not because I wish to repeat myself. It's because the war is not stagnant. It is changing constantly. And the way it is changing – more so now than ever – is that it is now ushering, in a very rapid and very dangerous escalation, including, again, just last night. 

What is declared unthinkable one month becomes explicit policy the next: the classic framework for how wars rapidly escalate out of control in history. Biden has repeatedly declared various weapons systems off-limits to send to Ukraine because of their escalatory dangers – meaning their potential to expand the war beyond its current theater focused on southern and especially eastern Ukraine – only for him to repeatedly change his mind and reverse himself, with the latest reversal coming in his announcement that he will now support sending F-16 fighter jets – we will now send them to Ukraine as they aggressively expand their military operations inside Russia.

 Very early this morning, on Tuesday, eight kamikaze drones were flown into residential buildings in Moscow, an act The New York Times characterized as “a potent sign that the war is increasingly reaching the heart of Russia,” adding “Ukraine has increasingly been reaching far into Russia-held territory.” Western commentators and governments barely even bothered to pretend today to be concerned that their weapons, our weapons, American weapons, were used by Kyiv to purposely target civilian targets in Russia's capital. 

Russia has, of course, attacked targets in Kyiv and other cities, civilian targets have been hit by Russia and Ukrainian civilians have been killed. That is true of every war, including the ones the U.S. and its allies fight, but the question now is how many dangers are you willing to put yourself in for this war? When it comes to U.S. involvement what is the limiting principle? If we give F-16s, why not give them the green light to use them to bomb targets inside Russia if we haven't already, to bomb the Kremlin with our F-16s, why not give them tactical nuclear weapons? What's the argument against that? Are we willing to risk a Third World War over the question of who governs the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, filled with Russian-speaking ethnic Russians, or Crimea, about which that is even more true? The answer, even though it is not explicit, increasingly seems to be yes, in a word, that we barely bother to debate because there is unanimity in the Democratic Party in support of Joe Biden's war policy and the GOP establishment is completely aligned with Biden. And when that kind of bipartisan, Uniparty consensus emerges, debate ends and we simply proceed along without even talking about it. 

Then, as our second story, we all know that the Kremlin agents are working everywhere, working on every corner, on every social media platform, and under every bed. We know that Russia – despite being, at best, a regional power with an economy smaller than Italy and Canada – that spends 1/16 of what the U.S. spends on our military, controls almost every major world event somehow and is responsible for most of America's social and political ills. But what you may not know is that they have developed one of the most nefarious and terrifying weapons yet: they have recruited and trained a deceptively adorable white beluga whale to serve as a Kremlin spy. We will tell you the full story of this Marine menace who, after years in hiding, has reportedly resurfaced this week to terrorize a Norwegian fishing boat. 

As we do every Tuesday and Thursday, as soon as we're done with our one-hour live show here on Rumble, we will move to Locals for an interactive aftershow to take your questions and comment on your feedback. To obtain access to our aftershow, which is for subscribers only, simply sign up as a member of our Locals community. The red Join button is right below the video player here on the Rumble page. We also provide daily transcripts, full transcripts for each program, as well as exclusive access to some of our journalism. 

As a reminder, System Update is also available in podcast form. We are available on Spotify, Apple and all other major podcasting platforms. The show posts the podcast version 12 hours after we first broadcast here, live, on Rumble. Simply follow us on those platforms as well as please rate and review our programs: that helps us spread the visibility of System Update.

For now, welcome to a new episode of System Update starting right now.


 

Certain words when they become so overused, begin to lose their meaning. They're just like noises that no longer evoke any real sentiment or any real feeling. They just become pure abstractions. And I think that's the case for the word ‘escalation’ when it comes to war. You can warn about how wars have the risk of escalating and the dangers that come from that escalatory spiral but I think, more often than not, we tend to dismiss that as an abstraction. It just doesn't evoke very many strong sentiments any longer and I think that's because the United States for so long has felt completely safe and immune from the risks of a world war. It's been 70 years since the conclusion of the last World War. It used to be commonplace that American students and American children were trained how to hide in bomb shelters. The specter of nuclear war very much was on the forefront of people's consciousness throughout all of the Cold War. And now we seem to be at the moment where people just tacitly, blissfully, assume that nuclear war is not really a possibility. It's something that you can kind of mention or talk about, but everyone knows that will never happen. There's very little fear over what is increasingly looking like a very direct proxy war between the two largest nuclear nations on the planet. It is, though, the warnings about nuclear war or the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists putting their doomsday clock to the closest time to midnight ever, which signifies global extermination, just doesn't seem to make any difference. We barely even debate or discuss this war. It's a war that Joe Biden himself said has brought the planet closer to nuclear Armageddon than at any point since 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And yet, given how central the U.S. government is to this war – over $100 billion already authorized for it after just over a year and increasingly sophisticated weapons being supplied to Ukraine, that are then used not only against Russian soldiers inside Ukraine but increasingly inside Russia itself – it seems like we're in this blissful form of ignorance, fortified by the fact that there is absolutely many within the Democratic Party in Washington in support of this war, as well as the fact that the Republican establishment, as usual, is in full alignment with the Biden administration when it comes to the U.S. war policy. So, everybody from Chuck Schumer to Tom Cotton and everybody from AOC to most of the Republican House caucus, clearly including Kevin McCarthy and Michael McFaul, the head of the House Intelligence Committee, and Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham, and on and on and on are in complete agreement. There's just no dissent. Ilhan Omar thinks the same way as – pick your Republican senator – Marsha Blackburn. And when that kind of bipartisan consensus happens, debate stops, even though there's a lot to debate. 

This war is constantly escalating right before our eyes, and that's the reason we keep discussing it. And we'll continue to. The last 24 hours may have brought the most dangerous escalation yet. By escalation, what I mean by that is the ability of a war to start wildly and rapidly expanding, physically expanding beyond its original theater, but expanding rhetorically as well in terms of the willingness of countries to just devote themselves endlessly to not just trying to solve the conflict, but to win the conflict and vanquish one's enemies, as well as to what the war aims are that just constantly spiral out of control. That is absolutely, whatever your views are and whatever your assignment of blame is, is how to understand this war. 

So, what happened last night is that eight kamikaze drones were obviously sent by Ukraine – people aren't even bothering with the pretense this time to say it was a false flag that Russia bombed itself – attacked not military installations, not any battalion of troops, but residential buildings in Russia's capital and Moscow. So just try and imagine how that would look to the United States if, say, Mexico using Chinese-provided drones or Chinese-provided weapons, attack residential buildings in Arlington, Virginia, or in the nation’s capital, or in Manhattan. That is how Russia is currently looking at the world today. 

So here from The New York Times, the headline is “What we know about the drone attack on Moscow. Russia's defense ministry said that at least eight drones had targeted Moscow and the surrounding region.” 

 

Explosions were reported in Moscow early on Tuesday morning with Russia's defense ministry saying that at least eight drones had targeted the capital city and the surrounding region. All of the drones were intercepted, the ministry said in a statement, saying that electronic jamming measures forced some to deviate from intended targets and that others had been shot down outside the city limits by air defenses. It did not specify what the targets may have been. 

American officials have in the past voiced concern that Ukrainian attacks on Russian soil could provoke Mr. Putin without having a direct effect on the battlefield – one reason that Washington has withheld from Ukraine weapons that could be used to strike deep into Russia. 

The reality of the war in Ukraine has largely been perceived as distant for much of the Russian public but the attacks unmask Moscow could change that and possibly even threaten overall support for Mr. Putin's handling of what the Kremlin has called “the special military operation.” (The New York Times. May 30, 2023)

 

It seems to be a very bizarre formulation by The New York Times for a couple of reasons. One is implicit within that account – it seems to be a justification for targeting residential buildings, for targeting civilians on purpose, which, when it's convenient, we are told is a war crime. The implicit narrative in the New York Times article – and we're going to show you one from The Washington Post that's even more egregious because a big part of the story is not just what Ukraine did, but how the West, and the United States in particular, are reacting – because there lies the real danger of what our mentality has become collectively. But the idea that it is now permissible to target civilians in order to make civilians more invested in the war's outcome, so they don't see it as an abstraction, is a justifying rationale for war crimes. Targeting civilian infrastructure and civilians on purpose for strategic gain is a violation of the laws of war, to the extent anyone cares about that – but there is implicit justification in there.

The other point that I find amazing is the notion that if you start bombing Russian civilians enough, they will turn against the war. When does that ever happen? Every government in the world knows that the best way to unify the population behind the government is to convince them that they are under attack and being threatened by a foreign enemy, by a foreign power. George Bush's 2000 election was one of the most disputed and contested elections in American history. For all the talk about election denialism and the threat posed in challenging the credibility of our elections, Democrats overwhelmingly believed that that election was stolen and that Al Gore was the rightful winner. The Supreme Court stole the election from the Democrats on behalf of George W. Bush, and for the first year of George Bush's presidency, of the first nine months, he was completely polarizing as a president. And then came September 11 and 90% of Americans approved the way George Bush was doing his job – 90% of Americans unified behind their leader the minute there was a foreign attack. That's what happens in every instance where a country is attacked. If you want to find a way to unify the Russians behind Vladimir Putin, keep bombing and targeting apartment buildings filled with civilians in Moscow on purpose. 

We have some videos that will give you a sense of what this attack looks like, from Sky News.

Watch.

 

 Ukraine clearly has the intention – because they've repeatedly done it – to not just attack Russian troops on their soil, to expel them, but to attack Russia itself inside Russian territory. This is not the first time by far that this has happened. There were units allied with the Ukrainian army, including reportedly certain actual overt Nazis who are enemies of the Putin government, who just recently engaged in cross-border attacks inside Moscow. There have been terrorist attacks by the Ukrainians, including blowing up a cafe in St. Petersburg to kill a Russian nationalist journalist and not only killed him but injured 19 people attending the speech. A car bomb that was targeting a Russian nationalist pro-war blogger who ended up instead murdering his daughter. So, it's not like this is the first time, but this is now eight kamikaze drones inside Moscow attacking residential buildings. That is an escalation of a war, if ever there was one. 

I want to show you what The Washington Post said about this war, not in an editorial, not in an op-ed, but in what they purport to be their news report, because embedded within this reporting is something extraordinary and, I would submit, very alarming: conceptions about how to understand this war. So, there you see the Washington Post article from today that reports on these drone attacks: “Drones hit Moscow, shocking Russian capital after new missile on Kyiv.” 

 

A drone attack hit Moscow on Tuesday morning, damaging two residential buildings – the first strike on a civilian area of the Russian capital since President Vladimir Putin launched an invasion of Ukraine more than a year ago. It was almost certainly a prelude to a major escalation in hostilities. (The Washington Post. May 30, 2023)

 

This is a newspaper that has been behind this war from the beginning – they're behind every single major or minor American war of the last two decades, at least, every single war from Iraq and Syria to Libya, to Afghanistan, to the bombing missions throughout the Middle East. Now, the war in Ukraine has been supported by The Washington Post. And even The Washington Post is saying “This event yesterday is almost certainly a prelude to a major escalation in hostilities,” a major escalation in a war involving multiple nuclear powers. 

How is this not the story that all of us should be focused on today? 

 

The drone attack, which was confirmed by Mayor Sergei Sobyanin, occurred just hours after yet another barrage of Russian airstrikes on Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, which killed at least one person and injured more than a dozen. In Moscow, there were no reports of serious injuries. 

While Ukraine denied involvement in the drone attack on Moscow, the dueling strikes on the capital cities appeared to mark a threshold moment as residents of Russia's capital experienced direct consequences of their nation's hostilities for the first time. (The Washington Post. May 30, 2023)



I want to read this again because it's a lot of words put together that seem on their own to be the kind of technical journalistic words newspapers typically use when they're describing some kind of national security policy but the actual meaning really bears some scrutiny. They say that the “dueling strikes” marked “a threshold moment as residents of Russia's capital experienced direct consequences of their nation's hostilities for the first time.” Is that how we now talk about attacks on civilians – deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure like apartment buildings? Oh, they're just carrying the consequences of what their nation is doing. That's how Osama bin Laden talked about 9/11. “Oh, we're going to make sure that Americans, for the first time feel the direct consequences for their nation's hostility for the first time.” That was his justification for the 9/11 attacks. Well, it's about time Americans don't just get to attack, but have to feel the consequences that they bring to other countries. That's the justification being offered by The Washington Post for targeting civilian buildings in Russia based apparently on the view that not the Russian government, but the Russian people need to suffer, be injured, or even be killed. And as we emphasized on our program last night when we were talking about the disparate treatment of Russian and Belarusian athletes who are somehow told they're responsible for their government's actions, it makes even less sense in this case, because we're also constantly told that Russia is a tyranny, a totalitarian society where no citizen has any input at all into what their government does, and any dissidents of any kind result in imprisonment or death. Anyone who criticizes Vladimir Putin gets sent to the Gulag. And yet, apparently, we're now supposed to believe that these same Russian people who are oppressed, we're told, by the Putin government, need to start feeling some bombs because somehow they bear responsibility for this war and need to be motivated to stop Putin, even though he's a totalitarian dictator who kills all of his critics. 

This is how propaganda works. It's an insidious weaving throughout everything that we're constantly told about how just to implicitly understand the world and the moral frameworks that we are supposed to apply to others and ourselves. 

 

Reports that some 200 artillery shells hit Russian towns in the Belgorod region near the Ukrainian border Tuesday, offered further evidence that Kyiv wants to bring the war to Russian territory before initiating its long-expected counter-offensive, which will inevitably necessitate further destruction in Ukraine. (The Washington Post. May 30, 2023) 

 

So let me stop there as well for a minute. We've been told forever that a counter-offensive is coming. And maybe it will. But the reality is the primary victim of the war right now is Ukraine. It's Ukrainian buildings and Ukraine that's been destroyed, Ukrainian infrastructure that's being destroyed, Ukrainian lives that are being taken in gigantic numbers. And the idea that they want this war is a nice narrative, but it's belied by the fact, as we've shown you before, that President Zelenskyy has been repeatedly forced not only to do things like close oppositional media outlets, ban political parties who are his opponents and banning churches – something he was doing even before the war started – but he severely increased the penalties for desertion because Ukrainian men, many of them, actually don't want to fight in this war. They do not think this war is worth dying for over the question of who controls Donbas or whether they get Crimea back. Ultimately awards merit is determined by whether people are willing to fight and die in it. Huge numbers of Americans volunteered to fight in World War II. Zelensky is using a conscript army. These are people forced to fight. And their country is being destroyed because, at the beginning of the war, it was clear. as many reported that the United States’ goal in this war was never to save Ukraine or protect Ukrainians, it was to destroy Ukraine and sacrifice Ukrainians for its broader geopolitical goal of beating the Russians as much as possible. That is what this war is really about. That is why there's never been even any discussion, let alone efforts toward finding a diplomatic solution to this war in Washington – because Washington does not want this war to end. It wants it to continue. It's a gold mine for the arms industry, for the intelligence community, and for the goal of destroying Russia, which again, I believe is predominantly motivated by a perception in Washington that it was Russia that was responsible for the election of Donald Trump. That's the real reason for this increasingly vitriolic anti-Russian hatred that is driving U.S. policy much more than any geopolitical objectives. 

 

Mykailo Podolyak, an adviser to Zelensky, said Moscow residents deserved whatever came at them. (The Washington Post. May 30, 2023)

 

This is one of Zelenskyy's primary advisors justifying the targeting of civilian infrastructures on the grounds that “Moscow residents deserved whatever came at them.” 

 

I'm going to say some paradoxical things and you can then analyze them: first, undoubtedly, gradually, Moscow is starting to sink into the fog of war… with a very desired sensation, Podolyak said Tuesday morning during “Breakfast Show” a Ukrainian Russian-language YouTube program. “Of course, we want those people who wanted to start this big European war to feel what it is like to live in this state of danger.” 

“And, of course, all those terrible men who sat in the parliament and threatened everyone,” Podolyak added, “they are going to gradually receive all of that back.” (The Washington Post. May 30, 2023)



Note that Ukraine did not bomb the parliament or the Kremlin this time the way they did several months ago when they sent a drone over Moscow that exploded right above the Kremlin. They targeted apartment buildings. How is it that on the one hand, Russia is a totalitarian, despotic society that imprisons every citizen who dissents from the government's actions and where Russian citizens have no ability to influence at all the government that we're told is despotic, and yet on the other, the Ukrainian government can say – using our weapons – that Russian civilians deserve whatever is coming to them because somehow they're responsible for this war. Is that now our position that the proxy nations that we use as pawns in war can deliberately target civilian infrastructure and kill as many civilians as possible and then explicitly justify doing that because they deserve to get what's coming to them? 

Again, that is the rationale of Osama bin Laden for why 9/11 happened. When Osama bin Laden was asked to justify that, then he said “Americans bear responsibility for their government's aggression in the world because they are the ones who elected that government. It was actually true in that case, that the Americans elected the government that initiated the war in Iraq or that starved hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children with sanctions or put troops on Saudi soil. But still, it didn't justify targeting civilians. It never is justified, let alone when we're told that civilians have no political rights of any kind. The article goes on. 

 

Putin said that Ukraine was trying to “intimidate” Russia and Russian citizens and that the attack aimed to provoke “a mirror response” from Moscow. 

“This, of course, is a clear sign of terrorist activity,” Putin said during a visit to a cultural center. (The Washington Post. May 30, 2023)

 

Regardless of what you think about this war, about who's to blame for this war, if you want to assign 1,000% of the blame to Vladimir Putin, is it true that deliberately targeting civilians to terrify those civilians into changing their government's policy is the very definition of terrorism? It's the definition I've always understood terrorism had, to the extent that it's actually a term with a clear fixed meaning, as opposed to just a propaganda term. Targeting civilians with violence on purpose to terrorize them into changing their behaviors and their views, that is terrorism. And that is what the Ukrainian government explicitly is saying was their goal here, was their purpose, was their aim. 

I mentioned Osama bin Laden and what he said about 9/11 on several occasions because it is exactly what we hear increasingly not just from Ukrainians, but from the West, about who bears responsibility for the invasion of Ukraine, that it's not just the Russian government, but Russian civilians as well. We showed you last night in the context of professional sports how that rationale is being invoked and I emphasized that even though that's just sports, it can seem trivial, the underlying propagandistic framework that is being pushed on us constantly, that we're being asked to ratify, is an extremely dangerous one because you first banned Russian and Belarusian athletes on the grounds that they somehow bear responsibility – 25-year-old athletes.

 If that's true that civilians are responsible, then it does become justifiable morally to target them and kill them on purpose because you've just gotten done implementing a framework that holds them morally responsible, ethically responsible, and responsible in every other way, for the war that you claim is the greatest act of evil since Hitler, if not even worse than Hitler. That's what makes this rationale so nefarious: that it's coming not only from Ukraine but from their sponsors in the West.

 Let's look at what Osama bin Laden said in September 2007 in a transcript of a speech that he gave from a video where he was talking about 9/11 and the War on Terror and U.S. aggression:

 

After it became clear to you that it was an unjust and unnecessary war, you made one of your greatest mistakes [He's talking here to the American people] in that you neither brought to account nor punished those who waged this war, not even the most violent of its murderers, Donald Rumsfeld. And even more incredible than that is that Bush picked him as secretary of defense in his first term, after picking Dick Cheney as his vice president, Powell, as secretary of state, and Richard Armitage as Powell's deputy, despite their horrific, bloody history of murdering humans. So that was a clear signal that his administration – the administration of generals – didn't have as its main concern the serving of humanity, but rather, was interested in bringing about new massacres. 

Yet, in spite of that, you permitted Bush to complete his first term, and stranger still, chose him for a second term, which gave him a clear mandate from you [American civilians] – with your full knowledge and consent – to continue to murder our people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then you claim to be innocent! This innocence of yours is like my innocence of the blood of your sons on the 11th – were I to claim such a thing. But it is impossible for me to humor any of you in the arrogance and indifference you show for the lives of humans outside America, or for me to humor your leaders and their lying, as the entire world knows, they have the lion's share of that. 

These morals aren't our morals. What I want to emphasize here is that not taking past war criminals to account led to them to keep repeating that crime of killing humanity without right and waging this unjust war in Mesopotamia, and as a result, here are the oppressed ones today continuing to take their right from you.  (Public Intelligence. Sept. 7, 2007, Video with Transcript).

 

So that was Osama bin Laden's argument for why American civilians were legitimate targets on September 11. And it sounds a lot to me like what Ukraine is saying about Russian civilians now and what the West has been saying since the start of this war in the way that they are talking about, not the Russian government, but the Russian civilians. And from that, it is not a big leap, in fact, it is the inevitable outcome, that Russian civilians should be targeted, which is exactly what happened within the last 24 hours – and now, with increasingly sophisticated, aggressive weaponry in their hands, provided to them by the United States with a mentality that you just got done hearing: that Russian civilians deserve what's coming to them. What do you think these weapons are going to be used for? 

If you can just put yourself into the position of seeing the world through Russian eyes – and again, think all you want about the fact that Russia is to blame for invading Ukraine, that they can end the war at any moment by going home. That's not the way the Russians see this war: it's the way the West sees this war. It's not the way Russians see this war, it's not the way most countries see this war. As we demonstrated to you when we reported on Fiona Hill's remarkable speech, an anti-Russia anti-China hawk who has been deep in the bowels of the U.S. foreign policy establishment forever, standing up and telling the Western foreign policy elites that “the rest” of the world – which now is not the rest of the world, but is actually a huge portion of the world, assembling greater and greater power and coming together in a more potent confederation than ever – does not see the war in Ukraine the way the United States and the West see the war in Ukraine. They see the war in Ukraine as yet another attempt – rightly or wrongly, it's how they see it – by the United States, by the West, to assert their dominion and hegemonic control everywhere, including all the way up to the Russian border. And while they don't necessarily support the Russian invasion of Ukraine, they certainly believe that the U.S. and the West provoked it. And that's Fiona Hill talking, not me. And there are tons of evidence to demonstrate that that's how major governments around the world see this war. 

But leaving aside the question of who's to blame or who's responsible, do you think that Russia, this country with this enormous history, filled with proud nationalists and the largest nuclear stockpile on the planet, is going to sit by while Ukraine takes weapons provided by the West and kills their civilians inside Moscow by bombing them from the air? Does anyone think that Putin is going to allow that to happen without reacting very, very aggressively? 

The theory of escalated wars,  of war getting out of control, of how World Wars start, is they always have a very limited beginning – that there is a border dispute between two countries, other allies side with each, and suddenly, there are all kinds of tension escalating. All these other new grievances are aired and the anger and hatred and hostility that war breeds in humans – we need hatred to be pulsating through our veins to support wars because when we engage in war, we do the most unthinkable things to one another – that hatred just constantly increases and bubbles over. That's how atrocities become possible. 

We are now already at the point where the Ukrainians are explicitly justifying attacks on Russian civilians, deep inside Russia, into Moscow, its capital; at the same time that the United States is now providing Ukraine F-16 fighter jets and at the same time that there's almost no communication at all between Moscow and Washington, one of the rotted results of Russiagate that essentially criminalized conversations between American diplomats on the one hand and Russian diplomats on the other. Michael Flynn almost went to jail because he reached out to the Russian ambassador shortly after becoming the national security adviser. 

Again, this is not the first time there have been strikes inside Russia, and each time that it happens, we are told some kind of just laughable propaganda about what happened. Here, from The Washington Post earlier this month – and you may recall that Ukraine exploded a drone bomb over the Kremlin near where Vladimir Putin was and The Washington Post headline was “Ukraine Denies Kremlin's Claim of Drone Assassination Attempt on Putin” and gave credence to this preposterous notion, even more, preposterous than the insulting claim that Russia blew up its own pipeline:

 Russia on Wednesday accused Ukraine of staging a drone attack intended to kill President Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, an incendiary allegation that was forcefully denied by Ukrainian officials, some of whom warned it could be a pretext for Russia to escalate its war. (The Washington Post. May 3, 2023)



In the first paragraph, The Washington Post gave credence to this false flag theory that Russia bombed itself. 

 

Russia said that it thwarted the attack and that Putin was not in the building at the time. Among the mysteries surrounding Wednesday's alleged attack was how two drones could have successfully reached one of the most protected buildings of Moscow's fortified city center. While some analysts said the incident might have been a false flag attack staged by Russia, others suggested it could be a performance gesture, by Ukraine, striking at a preeminent symbol of Russian state power. (The Washington Post. May 3, 2023)

 

Don't forget that incident just weeks ago when the Russians perceived that Zelenskyy and Ukrainians tried to murder the Russian president via drone over Moscow. Again, think about what would the United States do if all of this was happening, not in Moscow, but in Washington – especially if those weapons were supplied by and the war was enabled by Russia, Iran or China, or some combination of all of those countries, which is what's happening in Ukraine that's enabled solely by the United States principally, and the rest of Western Europe and NATO. 

 

 

Just to give you a sense of how utterly deranged the mentality has become among American journalists, war analysts and the like, all these people who just make a living constantly supporting U.S. foreign policy whenever it comes to militarism and war, I want to show you this tweet or series of tweets from Tiger Rogoway. I forgot the publication he works at. We will get that for you. He used to be part of the Gizmodo Media Group and he's worked for other media outlets as well. So, he's a journalist. But listen to how he thinks and how he's speaking. And very little opposition arose from this tweet until I pointed it out. It's him today discussing the drone attacks on Moscow last night. 

Every day this war goes on, Ukraine's kinetic reach expands in magnitude and frequency. Taking the word to Moscow IS the goal. Little drones will turn into way more drones of increasing complexity, then into cruise missiles, then ballistic missiles… (@Aviation_Intel.  May 30, 2023)

 

They have relatively advanced indigenous ballistic missile tech. If you don't think they aren’t doing everything they can to get what they set aside a few years ago operational, we are living in different universes and they are likely getting help. (@Aviation_Intel.  May 30, 2023)

 

Obviously, meaning help from the United States. And he cites an article entitled “Does Ukraine have a stash of domestically developed ballistic missiles?” Once a day he is celebrating an intended abuse to strike deep into Russia. He then goes on. 

 

So much is focused on what NATO will give them, especially in standoff weaponry, but it's 15 months into this thing. What crash programs are likely maturing? Hence the flocks of drones that will be raining on Moscow. 

Bad, bad news for Russia. (@Aviation_Intel.  May 30, 2023)

 

Is that just bad news for Russia? Or is that bad news for the world if we are now going to start having constant drone attacks on civilian infrastructure in Russia, in Moscow, followed by cruise missiles, followed by ballistic missiles? He works at this media outlet called The Drive, which is a New York outlet. I’d never heard of it before that published this article about whether Ukraine has a stash of ballistic missiles. He also has a vertical called the War Zone. He's obviously one of these people Adam Smith warned us about back in 1776. People who stay far away from the battlefield but who cheer wars from a distance. Sometimes they go there and do kind of we're reporting in the war zone, but they don't fight in the wars. But you can see the excitement. They get a sense of purpose and strength. We're talking about cruise missiles and ballistic missiles raining down on Russia. If you want to have a nuclear war, this is the way to do it. And as always, the question I will continue to pose for as long as this war goes on is: what interest does the United States have in continuing this war? What interest does the United States have in fighting with this level of risk and danger over who gets to govern the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine – bereft of any vital interests for the United States – or who governs Crimea – a region where even the harshest anti-Russian hawks will acknowledge is filled with people who far more identify as Russian than they do as Ukrainians and who would far more rather be governed by Moscow or be independent than be governed by President Zelenskyy in Kyiv. 

Ever since the United States fostered regime change in Ukraine, which we know happened – we heard Victoria Nuland talking about it secretly on a tape – there are large numbers of people in these provinces who feel like they live in a country that is not theirs. They see Russia with far more affinity to their ethnic identity, to their historical identity than Ukraine. And one possible way out of this war is to hold a referendum and see what the people of Eastern Ukraine want; to see what people in Crimea want, a fair election supervised by the U.N.; to see if they want to be part of Russia, if they want to be independent, if they want to remain under the thumb of Kyiv. I think the West knows what the outcome of that referendum will be. 

And whatever else is true, again, whatever your position, I think the most striking thing here is how little effort there is on the part of Washington or London or Paris or Berlin to even pretend they're seeking a diplomatic solution to this war. Where are the diplomats? Where are the efforts to foster an outcome to finally end this war before it escalates out of control? There are paths to a diplomatic resolution. I just named one. We have the example of Kosovo, which is in the news – we're going to cover that later this week – which is now engaged in some hostilities with Serbia, over what is technically, at least in the eyes of the West, the territory of Kosovo even though many countries don't recognize Kosovo as a country. But the reason there are Kosovo and Serbia to talk about is that the United States and the EU sided with the ethnic separatists in Kosovo that no longer wanted to be part of Serbia. They didn't want to be ruled by Belgrade because they're Albanians, ethnic Albanians, and they wanted their independence and the U.S. supported that independence by arguing that the people of Kosovo deserved autonomy over who they're governed by. And at the time, Vladimir Putin warned that that would be a very dangerous precedent to set because post-World War II Europe is filled with regions and provinces that have been shoved into countries with which they don't identify – including those two breakaway provinces in Georgia that were subject to that 2008 war between Russia and Georgia where the people of South Ossetia and other provinces in Georgia, that are Russian speaking and identify as Russians, did not want to be under the thumb of a country with which they felt no affinity and preferred to be under the governance of Russia. Same with Crimea, same with people in Donbas and other parts of eastern Ukraine. 

So, the Kosovo model is one way out of this, which is to have a free and fair election to oust the people in those provinces and in those regions what they want. Do they want independence? Do they want to be part of Russia? Do they want to be part of Kyiv? And allow them to have their own say in the outcome of that. There is no attempt on the part of the West, you will notice, to try and foster that diplomatic resolution or any other, because the only people in whose interest this war is our Western elites and the Western security state and everybody else, principally the people of Ukraine but also the people of the United States who, are transferring enormous amounts of resources – poured into that war through Raytheon, through the CIA – to this country that has long been considered the most corrupt in all of Europe, only to now face what Joe Biden himself, the sponsor of this war, calls the most dangerous moment since 1962 for the survival of the species. 

So, there is no effort to end this war diplomatically, nor is there any intention to hold that kind of referendum because the West knows what the people in those regions want and don't care about what they want at all. This war is not about protecting Ukraine or protecting Ukrainians. It never was. It's about pretty much everything else, and each day that this war escalates, the dangers intensify. 



We all know that Russia has been responsible, the puppet master, for pretty much every single problem that the West has had over the last ten years. It's not because the Western elites are corrupted. It's not because neo-liberal global institutions are malicious and are willing to squeeze entire populations just to enrich themselves and empower themselves a little further. No, perish the thought. It's because Vladimir Putin, despite all his problems domestically, despite having an economy that is smaller than that of Canada or Italy, despite spending 1/16 of what the United States spends on the military, is somehow able, from across the other side of the world, to puppet master every last event inside the United States, inside of the United Kingdom, and even other Western European countries. And we all know how many Kremlin agents there are, how many Russian spies are, essentially, everybody who challenges or dissents from U.S. foreign policy in any way. 

So just a reminder of all the things the Russians somehow managed to do. The New York Times, through Charlie Savage, in July or June 2020, announced that Russia had placed bounties on the heads of American soldiers in Afghanistan, we were told they had convinced the Taliban that they would pay them if they killed American troops. 

Just beyond anything else, as a reminder, remember the outrage that Russia would dare try and involve itself in an American war by encouraging our enemies to kill American troops? This is something just ghastly that no country would ever do. Only for two years later us to drown Russia's bordering country, Ukraine, with every conceivable weapon we can think of in order for them to go and kill as many Russian troops and increasingly Russian civilians as they can. 

But anyway, that's what Russia was doing. They were controlling Afghanistan. Of course, that story turned out to be false like most of these stories. The Daily Beast in 2021, “U.S. Intel walks back claim Russians put bounties on American troops.” Then we had the Havana Syndrome: somehow there was this new mind-controlled device using 24th-century technology that nobody had ever heard of before, much less began to understand, that enabled them, the Russians, to go around the world injuring the brains of American diplomats, not just in Havana, but all over Europe, using invisible sonic weapons that nobody can't even possibly explain. And we were told over and over again that Russia was behind that as well – that they were damaging the brains of State Department officials. Turns out it was all basically hysteria. It was a psychosomatic illness created by a bunch of hysterics. Imagine that those are the kinds of people working inside the State Department, people who are just completely hysterical and create imaginary illnesses. I wonder where they came from. But as you see here in Rolling Stone, the “Noises were likely crickets, not super weapons, State Department report says.” But we were told that Russia was behind that as well. 

From the Washington Post, in 2020, turns out that America's racial strife is not due to 250 years that involve slavery and Jim Crow laws and segregation or American activist groups that need racial strife. It turns out that racism is because of Russian bots. They're responsible for racial strife in the United States, too. They're sending disinformation campaigns targeting African Americans. They're behind that as well. 

Also, Brexit. Remember Brexit? When the British people went and decided they no longer wanted to be part of the EU, they didn't want to be ruled by Eurocrats in Brussels, they actually want a local role to be able to influence their own self-governance by removing themselves from the EU. That was not the decision of the British people. That too was due to Russia! Russia also engineered Brexit, says the New York Times: “‘No one’ protected British democracy from Russia, UK report concludes.” They blamed Brexit on the Russians.

And of course, 2016: the Democrats lost the presidential election not because they ran one of the most unlikable people on the planet, one of the most historically unpopular politicians in modern American political history. Not because they didn't go to Wisconsin. Not because they had no program to offer anybody other than the elites that financed Hillary Clinton's campaign. Not because they relied on Lena Dunham and a bunch of Hollywood celebrities to tell people in the United States that they should vote for Hillary. None of that. It was because Moscow dictated the outcome of our election. And I could go through the entire list of all the people who we know are Russian agents – because of the fact that they criticized the U.S. government.

Here from the New York Times is a reminder. “Hillary Clinton left no doubt on Thursday that she believes Russia contributed to her defeat by interfering in the election, condemning what she called Moscow's “weaponization of information.” 

So those are all the things and many, many more that Russia has masterminded through its incredible sophistication and power. It turns out they have a new weapon. It's actually a new one. It's the emergence of an old one in 2019. The Guardian, in April, warned us of a frightening new weapon – a Russian spy. The headline: “Whale with harness, could be Russian weapon,” said Norwegian experts.

 

Fishermen in Norway raised alarm after a white beluga whale sporting unusual strapping began harnessing their boats. Marine experts in Norway believe they have stumbled upon a white whale that was trained by the Russian Navy as part of a program to use underwater mammals as a special ops force. Fishermen in waters near the small Norwegian fishing village of Inga, reported last week that a white beluga whale wearing a strange harness had begun to harass their fishing boats. (The Guardian. May 29, 2019) 

 

Kind of like the way Russian bots do on Twitter. 

 

The strange behavior of the whale, which was actively seeking out the vessels and trying to pull straps and rope from the sides of the boats[…] (The Guardian. May 29, 2019) 



Apparently, I knew that there was the claim that the Russians had used these whales to spy on Kremlin spies, but apparently, they trained them to attack Norwegian fishing boats. 

The strange behavior of the whale, which was actively seeking out the vessels and trying to pull strobe straps and ropes from the side of the boats, as well as the fact that it was wearing a tight harness, which seemed to be a camera or weapon, raised suspicions among Marine experts that the animal had been given military-grade training by neighboring Russia. inside the harness, which has now been removed from the whale, were the words “Equipment of St Petersburg.” (The Guardian. May 29, 2019) 

 

Because, of course, everybody knows that when you deploy covert agents into the field, or convert whales into the ocean, you, of course, have to describe where they came from, and who they belong to. Everybody knows that. I mean, yes, spying is a pretty nasty business, but there are rules. And one of the rules is if you're going to use whales, you have to say where they came from. So, there was a harness that said “Equipment from St Petersburg.” And apparently, that's how they knew. 

Maybe that's a false flag. Could be. Except, unfortunately, you're never allowed to suggest that the West was responsible for a false flag, mislabeling the perpetrator of the attack. Only Russia does that. Russia explodes its own industrial hardware and infrastructure, even though its future economic growth depends on it – like they blew up their own pipeline. Russia bombs itself as it did when it exploded a drone over the Kremlin where Vladimir Putin was sleeping. They think it's Russia that killed its own pro-Russian nationalist blogger in that cafe and blew up that car. But we know in this case that this whale is definitely a Kremlin agent because it says right in the harness “Equipment of Saint Petersburg.” 

 

“If this whale comes from Russia, and there is great reason to believe it, then it is not Russian scientists, but rather the Navy that has done this,” said Martin Biuw of the Institute of Marine Research in Norway. 

Audun Rikardsen, professor at the Department of Arctic and Marine Biology at the Arctic University of Norway told NRK: “We know that in Russia they have domestic whales in captivity and also that some of these have been apparently released. Then they often seek out boats.” (The Guardian. May 29, 2019) 



 So, I guess the claim here is that whales are generally gentle and humanitarian mammals that ordinarily are very peaceful when they see boats but the Russians have trained them to identify Western boats, boats that are controlled by Westerners or by Western navies, and to attack these boats on behalf of the Kremlin, very, very alarming. Once you start weaponizing marine life this way.

 

He said he had contacted Russian researchers who said the harnessed whale had nothing to do with them. “They tell me that most likely is the Russian navy in Murmansk,” said Rikardsen. 

In 1980s Soviet Russia, a program saw dolphins recruited for military training, their razor-sharp vision, stealth, and good memory, making them effective underwater tools for detecting weapons. 

This mammal program closed in the 1990s. However, a 2017 report by TV Zvezda, a station owned by the Defense Ministry revealed that the Russian Navy has again been training beluga whales, seals and bottlenose dolphins for military purposes in polar waters. 

In the past three years, President Vladimir Putin has re-opened three former Soviet military bases along its vast Arctic coastline. The recent research and training were done by Murmansk Sea Biology Research Institute in northern Russia on behalf of the Navy to see if beluga whales could be used to, “guard entrances to naval bases” in Antarctic regions, “assist deepwater divers and, if necessary, kill any strangers who enter their territory. (The Guardian. May 29, 2019) 



I don't doubt, in fact, I affirmatively believe that many countries probably do train dolphins to try and engage in certain behavior that could be beneficial to their government. But the idea that this is some kind of nefarious, scary army of Wales, that the Kremlin's have been trained to be spies and to attack Norwegian boats is lunacy. Lunacy. Especially given what they're claiming is the evidence for it that they had a harness that said basically, “Hello, I'm a Russian spy.” And the tone that's used to suggest that this is supposed to frighten us. That this is something that only very evil, insidious countries would do. Like this sonic weapon that came from the 24th century. That instead turned out just to be the psychosomatic neuroses of people who just got out of Swarthmore and joined the State Department and convinced themselves that their brains were being melted by Russian sonic weapons because they'd been watching Rachel Maddow too much, when in fact all along it was crickets they were hearing, and they had invented this mental health disease and then given themselves it sounds like a lot like that. 

As it turns out, this scary Russian Kremlin not just apparently a spy but also an attacker had disappeared, in 2019, only to resurface in the last two days, the last 48 hours. So here from The Guardian, we find he has returned: “Suspected Russia-trained spy whale, reappears off Sweden's coast.” Where is this whale been for the last four years? 

 

A beluga whale that turned up in Norway wearing a harness in 2019, prompting speculation it was a spy trained by the Russian Navy has reappeared off Sweden's coast. First discovered in Norway's far northern region of Finnmark, the whale spent more than three years slowly moving down the top half of the Norwegian coastline before suddenly speeding up in recent months to cover the second half and move on to Sweden. (The Guardian. May 29, 2023)

 

So, the Marine mission for which he had been trained, apparently involved a four-year timeline where he would kind of chill out in the Arctic waters – excuse the pun, I promise it wasn't intended. For four years. And then in 2023, maybe to the date that the program would suddenly speed up and start attacking Swedes.

 

The harness had a mount suited for an action camera and the words “Equipment St. Petersburg” printed on the plastic clasps. 

Directorate officials said Hvaldimir – I guess that's the name of the whale. Oh, it's a pun on Vladimir and then the word for the whale, in Norwegian. Very clever. – Hvaldimir may have escaped an enclosure and may have been trained by the Russian navy as he appeared to be accustomed to humans. 

Moscow never issued any official reaction to Norwegian speculation that he could be a “Russian spy.” (The Guardian. May 29, 2023)

 

 They probably couldn't stop laughing.

 So here from 2019 is another one: it’s an AP report that has even a picture of him. He looks quite adorable. “Beluga whale with Russian harness raises alarm in Norway.” 

 

A beluga whale found with a tight harness that appeared to be Russian-made has raised the alarm of our region officials and speculation that the animal may have come from a Russian military facility. (AP News. April 29, 2019)

 

Just more of the same. 

We do have a video of this nefarious Kremlin spy. And like I said, I want to warn you, I think it's important for you to watch this video to be on guard because he's incredibly cute. He's very playful. He clearly likes humans or at least pretends to like humans. I think part of the danger is that he orders people into this sense of safety by tracking them into his web. He's like a honeypot. You know, Russians use honeypots, like very beautiful women to entice politicians like Eric Swalwell and the person who turned out to be a Chinese spy who developed a very good relationship. That's been a Cold War tactic for a long time. But instead of using women to lure men into getting their secrets, they use adorable animals. People love animals. A lot of people use the love of animals as a way of getting greater connection in our hearts in modern life. And they found this incredibly adorable whale. But he's a spy for the Kremlin. Who not only warns your secrets but attacks you if you're Norwegian or Swedish. 

So, let's look at him. I think it's important to keep you out in the waters and you see him. to identify him and remain very cautious in what you tell him and in your interactions with him. 

I should say this is from NBC News just to ensure, I assure you that this is all coming from the most mainstream outlets. There you see the caption: Marine experts think this whale may be a Russian-trained spy. Let's watch him

 

Do you see how malicious the Russians are? They play on our best instincts and they weaponize the cuteness of beluga whales for military purposes. I don't know if you notice in that propaganda I read you, one paragraph, said, “The reason we know he's a Russian spy is because he's unusually aggressive and hostile.” He attacks only Norwegian boats, fishing boats out of the blue with no provocation. And then we also heard that the reason we know he's a spy is because he's so accustomed to being around humans. Did you see any hostility there at all? I saw nothing but very polite behavior. But again, that's the point. That's the way they keep this a secret. 

 

Now, let me show you one other report, which I believe is from CBS News because I think you cannot be on guard enough. Here is the report. It's entitled Russian Spy Whale. And it's from 2019 when he first appeared. 

 

(Video. CBS News. 2019)

 

The city of Hammerfest, Norway. You may have to get into a boat to see the town's most iconic resident, Hvaldimir, the Beluga. The gentle giant is not from Norway. The townspeople believe he once worked as a Russian spy whale and then fled. […]

 

So apparently he's like a dissident. It turns out he was trained as a Russian spy. I think he developed some kind of misgivings about the nature of the work that he was doing. And he escaped bravely. And he sought asylum in Norway, off the coast of Norway. So, I mean, I guess according to this version, at least he's heroic, though he did reappear in 2023. Maybe the Russians captured him again, debriefed him, retrained him, and then gave him a new Marine mission, kind of reoriented him, indoctrinated him out of his dissidence, and now he's back under Russian control. But this is what they thought in 2019 about him. 

 

I always say it sounds like something that a comic book artist ran out of ideas or something in the fifties and created this. 

He was trained to do military spy work. You can send a whale a lot further and a lot longer and a lot deeper than you can a human, first of all. 

And second of all, that whale can go undetected. Hvaldimir had cameras strapped to him. He boldly left his old life behind, showing up on the coast alone and in need of help. 

 

He Oh, my God. I mean, okay, let me say again, this is CBS News, and they've turned him into like a victim of Russian repression by a heroic victim. Somebody who really did not appreciate being forced to work for the Russian government. Or maybe at some point he kind of like had an epiphany, kind of like Edward Snowden. He was a very young man, who joined the U.S. military believing the war in Iraq was just. He broke both of his legs in basic training. Then he went to work for the CIA and the NSA until he had an epiphany and began realizing that the mythology that he had been fed about the U.S. government, and the role that it played in the world was false. And therefore, he wanted to act against it. This seems to be the case for this whale, at some point, we don't know why he had kind of like an epiphany, like a sort of awakening about the true nature of the Russian government, and decided he no longer wanted to work for them. And he made a breakaway to the coast of Norway where he anticipated correctly, it turns out, that he would be well received. 

This is 2019, so I want to point out that this may be all a cover, a gigantic fraud perpetrated on the West to make us think that he had an awakening and was no longer willing to do the work of the Russian government when in reality was his way of luring us in. That was part of his training to think that he was actually on our side and to trust him. And now it turns out he resurfaced, is swimming faster than ever and attacking the Swedes. So, it's a very complex story, that's for sure. 

So, here's the rest of this report for 2019. 

 

Started pulling at fishermen’s boats and buoys and equipment and getting their attention. One of the fishermen in Norway really realized something's wrong with this picture. There's a man wearing a harness. He got in the water himself and was able to undo the harness and take all the mirrors out of the harness, which I think is really important, an important thing to have happened for Hvaldimir because I don't think he probably could have lived his whole life and not too comfortably.  

 

Can you believe this? I mean, you know, obviously there are lots of ways to mock this. I have refrained from doing so because of the gravity of the story. But if I wanted to, I could. I think the point here, though, is all of this is based on this whole story that emerged in 2019 about this Kremlin spy who's a whale and then, like, escaped as kind of like fleeing a repressive regime, quickly making it to the West, where he could be free and asked for help, and the Norwegians gave it to him. But now it turns out he really might have been a spy. Or maybe he went back and got What is any of this based on? It's like this woman just telling a story with music in the background designed to pull in your heartstrings, to make you think this whale is, like, benevolent, heroic. Except now he's being depicted once again as nefarious. This is the never-ending, incessant bullshit. But these corporate media outlets and under the guise of news, this is news, that Washington Post article that I read you before about how Russian civilians are finally getting what they deserve and this is going to make them rise up. That was also presented as news. This is what we are constantly bombarded with. There's not even pretense to have an evidentiary basis for it. It's almost like the more egregious they can be, the more flagrant they can be, and how they propagandize us, the better it is because it shows their power. 

If they can make you affirm things that you know are false or they don't even have to pretend to care whether or not you believe them, they just shove narrative constructions down your throat without the slightest regard for whether it even makes the most basic sense, that's real power. That's essentially saying to you we don't fear you at all. We don't even have enough respect for you to bother caring about whether or not you're convinced. And that is really the posture of the U.S. government and the corporate media outlets that serve that. And I think it's no wonder that it's one of the most optimistic and encouraging facts that we have that faith and trust in these media outlets have completely collapsed because, eventually, people see through this stuff. People know when they're being scorned and treated with contempt. 

And while you can mark this and talk about the absurdity of it, it does in fact, have very dangerous outcomes. We’re now at war with a country that the Democratic Party decided to blame for what for them was the most traumatic event in recent political history, which is the loss of Hillary Clinton and the election of Donald Trump. They fed their followers with the most severe form of anti-Russian animus. They basically made it a crime to even talk to Russians. And now we're in the middle of this incredibly dangerous, rapidly escalating war that has no geostrategic aim other than its continuation for its own sake. There are no efforts to resolve it diplomatically and instead, all we ever get is this constant narrative that we should hate Russia and Russians in lieu of any rationale for why these resources should continuously be expended and why these rights should be incurred in pursuit of this war. 

These institutions cannot collapse fast enough. They cannot collapse fast enough. There is no way to describe how fundamentally and irretrievably corrupted they are. And that's why I always say, and I will continue to say that: however much you hate the corporate media and the U.S. security state, it is nowhere near enough the willingness that they have to drag you into lies and then create dangers all around those lies is essentially limitless. 


 

That concludes our show for this evening. Because it is Tuesday night, we will now move to our Locals platform for our live, interactive show where we take your questions, comment on your critiques and feedback, hear your suggestions for the kinds of stories we should cover and whom we should interview, and just generally have a conversation with our audience, which I always find to be a very important form of journalistic accountability. 

To have access to that live aftershow, simply join our Locals community by clicking the join button here, on the video player. That also helps support the journalism we do here. 

As a reminder, System Update is available in podcast forms: you can follow us on Spotify, Apple, and every other major podcast platform. You can also rate and review the show – that helps spread its visibility.

 

 Thank you so much for watching. We hope to see you back tomorrow night and every night at 7 p.m. EST, exclusively here on Rumble. 

Have a great evening, everybody.

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All of that money? Where did it go? Where did it go?
In somebody’s pocket? A friend of a friend?
All the loose change
Loose change…..

THE SMILE

A FRIEND OF A FRIEND…..

I can go anywhere that I want
I just gotta turn myself inside out and back to front
With cut out shapes and worn out spaces
Add some sparkles to create the right effect
And they're all smiling so I guess I'll stay
At least 'til the disappointed have eaten themselves away

Buried from the waist down
Stop looking over our shoulder

Oh the window balconies they seem so flimsy as our friends step out to talk and wave
And catch a piece of sun

I guess I believe in an altered state
Where they leave their windows and their doors open wide
Here the telephone lines are always busy
Unable to give a reason or a straight answer

Buried from the waist down
Stop looking over our shoulders
We need to get it together
From our window balconies we take a tumble as our friends step out to talk and wave and catch a piece of sun

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Beyond System Update: Voices Who Interviewed Glenn This Week
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System Update #443

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I know that a lot of you, on the very rare occasions when we have to miss a show on the scheduled time, start thinking that I'm being lazy, I'm just lounging around doing nothing, and sometimes that's the case, but very rarely. Most of the time, it's because I'm very busy with other commitments or other things that I am doing related to my work. Just to illustrate to you how true that is, how actually extremely busy I am, how diligent and hardworking, even when you think that I'm being slothful, I just want to briefly comment on several of the interviews that I did just in the last day and a half. 

For those of you who might be interested, I spent two hours on the Megyn Kelly Show on Wednesday. It might've even been yesterday, these are all blending together now. We talked about a wide range of issues, the chaos at “60 Minutes” and then, I'm not really sure why, it led to a quite lengthy discussion of Michelle Obama's podcast and Michelle Obama herself, the grievances of that all-female astronaut crew that went on a little ride for 11 minutes on Jeff Bezos' rocket and then got back angry that they weren't being called astronauts. We talked a lot about that. We even talked about Meghan Markle's show, like I said, outside of the realm of topics I would certainly cover here, on this show, but talking to Megyn always is very substantive regardless of what you're talking about and I enjoyed it. You can watch it here.

Then, I had a 90-minute discussion with Reason Magazine for their “Just Asking Questions” show, where we actually covered many of the topics that I do spend a lot of time talking about here, particularly civil liberties. That's a libertarian magazine. They're very focused on free speech, due process and the like. We covered a lot of ground there over the course of 90 minutes that might be of interest to you as well. This one is here.

Also, yesterday I did a 35-40 minute interview with Emily Jashinsky, who's a co-host of “Breaking Points” but also has her own program on the UnHerd Magazine channel called “Undercurrents,” where we talked about the attacks on free speech with regard to students criticizing Israel, the comparisons between some of the rationale that the left liberal censorship regime invoked and on which it depended versus the one that people on the right are now using. And I think Emily's also always an excellent questioner, so I really recommend the interview. It’s here.

I also spoke this morning for about 30 minutes with Professor Glenn Diesen, who is one of the most knowledgeable experts on Russia and Ukraine. I usually go on a show to talk about that, though this time I went on instead to talk about free speech issues, some of the civil liberties concerns being raised by these new policies of the Trump administration and how it compares to prior ones. Here.

So, if you miss me during the weekend – I know some of you really do, I know that some of you struggle a lot with that – there are all sorts of things for you to consume and fill your time with.

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All right, so that was my self-justification for what a hard-working journalist I am, even when I seem like I've just disappeared, but now I want to get into our Friday night episode for two of our semi-regular segments. 

The first is a “Week in Review,” where we try to cover and go in depth into various news events or debates that we did not have the opportunity to cover in depth previously and the second is our “Mailbag,” a Q&A with our audience, where we take questions that were posted throughout the week from our Locals members – our show's supporters. 

The topic I wanted to begin with just so happens to be one of the most common questions we got from Locals members this week. @ChristianaK asked this: 

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Now, this is one of the biggest topics, news topics of the day, certainly consuming a lot of news and commentaries. It's also generating a lot of hysteria and a lot of inaccurate commentary as well, so I actually did want to address this. 

Just to give you the bare bones facts, for those of you who haven't heard it, Judge Dugan is a local judge in the County of Wisconsin in Milwaukee. She's a judge in the state court system in Milwaukee, not a very high-ranking judge, in fact, what I believe is one of the lowest levels of the judicial system. She was elected and she's somebody who has spent a long time working with low-income people, which I regard as noble, but also causes generally associated with the left, including immigrants. 

She was arrested by the FBI today at her home and, obviously, that created a lot of shock because this was the FBI going and arresting a sitting judge in Wisconsin who clearly is a political opponent or someone with ideological views that differ from the administration. The arrest was originally announced by FBI Director Kash Patel, and a lot of people became instantly alarmed for reasons I guess are understandable, saying, “Wow, this is a huge escalation where the Trump administration is now arresting judges.” The implication was, especially from a lot of Democrats – I don't mean like Democratic random commentators, I mean from major Democratic Party leaders in D.C. and a lot of media personalities who are Democratic – they were essentially trying to claim that this was some huge red line that had just been crossed because this was an instance of the Trump administration now weaponizing the FBI to arrest judges for issuing orders they dislike. 

If it were that, if this were the FBI, say, going to one of the judges that have been ruling against the Trump Administration, issuing rulings that certain Trump administration policies are unconstitutional or issuing injunctions, and the FBI went to their chambers or their home to arrest them as punishment for or in response to a judicial ruling that they issued in the course of their judicial work, I would be as alarmist as the English language permits. I would actually consider that to be a major escalation of the civil liberties threats that, as you I think know, I believe are genuine over the past three months that we're seeing. But that's not what happened today. 

This is not a case where this judge issued an adverse ruling, and for that reason, the FBI went and arrested the judge, as a lot of people were attempting to imply. 

I just want to note, it's not that uncommon for judges to be arrested. Judges commit crimes all the time. The FBI catches judges taking bribes, or embezzling money, or engaging in judicial corruption, or, on the state level, election corruption. There are all sorts of judges who have been arrested, who have been prosecuted, who have been sentenced to prison, who are sitting in prison now. Judges are not any more above the law than anybody else. So, the mere fact that the FBI arrested a judge doesn't make this a political scandal or a cause for alarm. 

Obviously, if a judge breaks into somebody's house and steals, if they rape somebody, if they're caught engaging in pedophilia, if they murder, if they engage in tax evasion, if they've taken your bribe, etc., etc., they ought to be arrested and are arrested. It's really not an out-of-the-ordinary event. Not saying judges get arrested every day, but it's not that it happens once every century either. 

So, the question then becomes, what was the reason for the arrest? What was the basis for the arrest? Pam Bondi, the attorney general, who supervises as attorney general the FBI, went to Fox News today, and this is the explanation she gave about the series of events that led the FBI to arrest Judge Dugan in Milwaukee. 

Video. Pam Bondi, Fox News. April 25, 2025.

Now, let me just issue an important caution, which is that Pam Bondi is a prosecutor. She's the attorney general of the United States, the highest-ranking prosecutor in the country. The FBI is a law enforcement agency. In our country, one of the responsibilities of citizenship is that we don't just assume that the version of events offered by the FBI or the police or the prosecutor is actually the full story, the accurate story, the correct story. So, there's no chance I'm going to sit here and say, “Oh, this judge committed a crime.” I want to hear from the judge, I want to hear from her lawyer, I want to see the evidence being examined and tested with witnesses in a court. Only then, at least, would I be willing to opine on whether there was really a crime committed here. 

What is the case is that the FBI's theory or the DOJ's theory about why this judge got arrested was that she committed what is in fact a crime, whether you think it should be or not, which is that if the government is looking for somebody to arrest them or detain them and you do something actively to obstruct law enforcement from being able to find them, if you help the person escape, if you hide them, if you lie to law enforcement about where they are so that they don't find them, that's a crime in every state in the country and federal courts. 

There is a context here, an important context, which is that we have this very odd situation in the United States where you have, on the one hand, the federal government that is charged with enforcing immigration laws and this is not just under Trump. I mean, in fact, immigrant rights groups called Obama the deporter-in-chief. Obama deported millions of people who entered the country illegally, millions. That's done through Homeland Security, through ICE, and other agencies charged with enforcing immigration laws by finding, detaining and then deporting people who are in the country illegally; that's a legitimate function of the federal government. 

On the other hand, Milwaukee is an example of a city that has declared itself to be a sanctuary city. For example, let's say there's a person who's in the country illegally and the person is raped, or let's say that there's murder on the street and one of the witnesses is a person in the country illegally, or let's say there's an older person in the county illegally, been here for a while, has a heart attack, shows up at an emergency room in a public hospital and in the course of getting their papers and the like the hospital discovers they're in the country illegally. The argument is that we don't want people in our city who are in the country illegally to be hiding. That's a policy decision that cities and states, through their elected officials, have made. However, you see the tension this creates. 

You have the government searching for and wanting to detain and deport, especially now, people in the country illegally, but a lot of these people are in these so-called sanctuary cities. The police in those cities will not cooperate with ICE. They will not help the Federal Government find illegal aliens. 

But the question becomes, what happens if a city or a state official doesn't just passively refuse to help the federal government but actively seeks to obstruct what they're trying to do? The city officials aren't just engaged in passive non-cooperation, they are instead engaged in actively impeding or obstructing what the federal government under the law is attempting to do and one of the things Trump's immigration czar, Tom Holman, has said from the start is “If we find city or state officials actively impeding or obstructing or harboring or hiding people in the country illegally that we're trying to detain and arrest, we will prosecute them because that is a crime.” 

Let me just take it out of the immigration context for a second, just to illustrate the point. Let's say there's somebody who robs a bank and you know they robbed a bank. You didn't help them rob the bank, you didn’t even know they were going to rob the bank beforehand, but now you know they robbed the bank and that the police are after them. They're fugitives from justice. If you tell the person to come hide in your basement, or you give them money and a car to be able to flee, you are committing the crime of helping a fugitive flee justice, impeding or obstructing justice. 

These are just ordinary crimes. I've confronted this many times before. In fact, when we went to Hong Kong to meet Edward Snowden to do the reporting, we were always very concerned about what was going to happen to him after he had to leave Hong Kong. Like, where was he going to go? We tried to talk to him about that. He said, “I don't care about that, I'm not the issue, work on the journalism, and I'll take care of that myself.”

But we felt like we had a responsibility to him.  I was working at The Guardian at the time; I called The Guardian. Their lawyers came to Hong Kong, we were talking about how we could help him and the U.S. government and the British government made very clear that if we took steps of tried to hide Snowden to help him get out of Hong Kong to help him get to safety they would regard our behavior as criminal because now we're aiding and vetting a fugitive from justice. 

This is not a radical theory of criminality that the Trump administration today invented to arrest this judge. So, if this judge knew that ICE agents had come to the courthouse because the person they wanted to detain was in court as a criminal defendant accused of domestic assault and battery, which was the charge against him, and then the judge, upon learning that ICE agents were out in the hallway, adjourned the proceeding to whisper to the defendant and his lawyer to come to her secret chambers where there's an exit they should take, if that's really what she did, and, again, I'm not assuming that she did that, but if that's what she really did, this does start to seem to me like more of an ordinary criminal offense than it does some political abuse of power designed to take retaliation against judges. 

If you did what that judge did, you would also get arrested. People have been arrested before for harboring or helping escape, not just criminals in general, but people in the country illegally as well. It's considered a crime. Just because she's a judge doesn't make what she did any less criminal, just like judges are arrested all the time for common crimes like bribery and all the other things I've said. 

So, when I heard that Kash Patel, as FBI director, went onto Twitter and said, “We just arrested this state judge,” I was obviously alarmed. The FBI arresting a judge in an immigration case seems like it has the potential for the abuse of power, but then, once you hear the allegations, and there are affidavits and other things, you understand that at least if the set of facts alleged by the FBI is accurate, then this is far from the sort of political scandal that a lot of Democrats were trying to make it out to be. 

This is the problem that I have had with Democrats for a long time. One of the biggest gifts that they give to Trump is that they seem incapable of ever criticizing him without using maximalist language. Everything is a threat to democracy, everything is fascism, everything is Nazi-like or Hitler-like, or some sort of drastic deviation from the norm, even when that's not true. 

That creates the boy-who-cries-wolf syndrome. I do think there are things the Trump administration is doing that are serious threats to basic civil liberties. We've talked about them a lot on this show. But the reason I feel competent to talk about them is because I am not somebody who has or will ever just instantly react to everything the Trump Administration does with this deranged kind of chicken running around with its head cut off rhetoric that a lot of Democrats instantly use and, again, the problem is that if you call everything he does fascist or a threat to democracy, on the times he really does do those things, people will tune out that rhetoric. It's similar to overusing the racism accusation or the antisemitism accusation. If you just start throwing that around almost reflexively, people are going to tune it out so that when it really merits that term, it will have lost its impact. Same with a lot of this rhetoric. So, here is, so many Democrats sounded exactly the same today. 

So, we'll see how this plays out. I understand that it can be an intimidating message to judges in immigration cases. They probably want that message to be sent because there's another judge in Arizona who just got arrested earlier this week because he was harboring someone illegally in his house, who the government claims is a member of Tren de Aragua. So, we'll see how this case plays out, but either way, it does not warrant this hair-on-fire melodramatic language that a lot of people, quite counterproductively, are giving it. 

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All right, let me talk about a few more stories before we get to the Q&A. There's this Irish band called Kneecap, which appeared at Coachella 2025, I think like four days ago, over maybe the last weekend, and a huge controversy was created. 

The reason is not that this band attacked Jewish people in the audience, nor that they encouraged people to attack Jewish people in the audience, nor incited attacks on Jewish people who were in the audience. What they did instead, in a very common way, especially for a rock band, but even for just musicians or anyone who is a political activist, was that they criticized a foreign country, one that's at war and they used this image to do so. 

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You would have thought that they had committed some kind of grave and moral transgression because a lot of people describe what they did as that. Obviously, if this had said like “Fuck China, free the Uyghurs;” “Fuck Russia, free Ukraine;” Fuck Iran, free women in Iran,” or pretty much anything like “Fuck Paraguay,” who knows why, maybe they just don't like Paraguay; or Denmark because they think that Denmark should give Greenland over to Trump; if they had said this about any other country, literally, even “Fuck the U.S.,” it wouldn't have even registered as a controversy. 

I mean, that's what rock bands do. Rock bands express political ideas all the time, including transgressive ideas. I mean, Woodstock, probably the most famous rock concert of all time, was gathered for the world's most famous musicians to come and condemn the United States government for the Vietnam War. This is what music, musicians and artists have done forever. It's not unusual in any way.

But in this environment where criticizing Israel is considered some unique and singular crime, where people are losing their green cards and student visas for doing it; where the Trump administration is forcing colleges and universities to adopt expanded hate speech codes that would make expressions like this punishable and prohibited on campus; where, we just showed you earlier this week, that the National Institute of Health instituted new guidelines saying that if you are getting grants from the NIH, doing cancer research or Alzheimer's research or research into treatments or cures for any diseases but you support a boycott of Israel, you'll be ineligible for NIH grants even though you're permitted to boycott any other country on the planet, boycott other American states, you just can't boycott Israel; in this climate where there's an obvious attempt to basically try to criminalize expressions of animosity toward Israel – which I'd like to remind you again is a foreign country inside the United States, a foreign country for an Irish band as well, they have no loyalty to that country - it's considered almost criminal, like, shocking, morally. 

Ironically, the framework being used is itself somewhat antisemitic. They're conflating the Israeli government with Jews, as if you say, “Fuck Israel,” what you're really saying is “fuck all Jews.” Even though, as you know, huge numbers of Jewish Israelis inside Israel are vehemently opposed to that war, opposed to the Netanyahu government, Jewish students from around the world and Jewish people of all kinds have been protesting Israel. But that's the trick that they do. 

Just like liberals used to try to say, if you oppose open borders immigration, if you question Black Lives Matter, if you believe there are two genders, what you're really saying is, “I hate black people, I hate trans people,” they find those unspoken messages embedded in the opinion they actually want to punish by depicting them in a much more malignant and hateful light than they're actually expressed and then justifying their banning or punishment based on that wild interpretation. That's exactly what's being done here. “Fuck Israel” really means, in our discourse, kill all Jews. I don't know how that happened. Well, I do know how it happened, but I don't know when that became convincing. 

Something very similar happened at Cornell University. There was a singer scheduled to perform, Kehlani, who was going to appear at what is called Slope Day in Cornell. 

We have someone on our staff who's a Cornell graduate. I'm sure he'd be happy to go on and on about what this is. It doesn't really matter for the moment what it is. Though I can see him moving to the microphone, trying to tell me. I actually don't want to know for the moment. He can tell me afterwards. But it's a sort of tradition, a yearly event held at Cornell, very, very important to people at Cornell. And they had a singer that they had invited to come, but it turns out she had previously expressed opposition to Israel, which, as we know, is the supreme crime, causing all sorts of upset. The administration of Cornell sent a message to all Cornellians – that's what they call each other, people who are at Cornell, the students and faculty, or whatever, they're Cornellians – so, they wrote an email note to all Cornellians saying: 

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I don't know who this is, I'm not pretending, but if this musician had written songs, if she had had all these songs, heralding Israel, saying kill Hamas, get the hostages back, level Gaza, no cancelation would have happened. And it's, again, so ironic that all the people who have spent the last decade complaining about cancel culture, about disinviting and deplatforming speakers because of their controversial political views on college campuses, not all of them, but many of them are not just cheering this, but they're the ones who are behind this. This is happening almost every day now. 

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Donald Trump gave an extensive interview to Time magazine. I have to say, despite the many criticisms I've had of the Trump administration, I've been very supportive of his attempt, for example, to negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine and one of the things you have to give Trump credit for is that I can't remember a president who was even remotely as available to journalists, to the media, to the public, to answer questions. He basically does it every day. And he just has open court, they can ask anything, and he answers as honestly as he can. He obviously likes that. He thinks it's important. That's transparency, that's accountability, genuine credit to Trump for doing that. 

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Here he is with Time Magazine. They asked him about the Abrego Garcia case, the El Salvadoran citizen, who's in the United States, married to an American woman, raising their American child together, and there was a court order barring his deportation, pending further proceedings to hear his asylum claim, to see if he's earned the right to stay in the U.S., and ICE went and picked him up anyway and included him in the group that they shipped back to El Salvador and then the U.S. government, the Trump administration admitted it was a mistake. The case went to the Supreme Court and by a 9-0 ruling unanimously, so including all the favorite right-wing judges, in addition to the centrist and the liberal wing of the court, all of them, nine together, said his removal was “illegal” and that the Trump administration is required to do what it can to “facilitate his release.” We showed you this decision. We went over it in detail. If you're a viewer of our show, you know what it actually says. 

But what happened was, and we showed you this as well, when Trump was meeting with President Bukele, members of the press asked him about that ruling and said, you're openly defying it; you're saying you're not going to do anything to try and get him back even though the Supreme Court said 9-0 that you have to. How do you justify that? And Trump, and I believe this is totally true, he doesn't read Supreme Court decisions, he relies on his lawyers and his aides to tell him what the court is doing. He said to Stephen Miller, his top advisor on immigration: “Stephen, what happened in this decision?” And Stephen Miller lied directly to his face. 

While, if you want to be super semantic about it, it is true the Supreme Court said, “Look, we can't force the Trump administration to get him back” because let's imagine the Trump administration has to invade El Salvador or sanction the El Salvadoran government to get him back. We can't force Trump to alter his foreign policy or to start a war. So, we can say, what we're ordering is to do everything possible to facilitate his return.” And so, Stephen Miller lied and said, “Oh, the court, by 9-0, ruled totally in our favor. So, we don't have to do anything.” So, Time Magazine asked him about that, and the journalist said, “Let me quote from the ruling.” 

I do think this is the case where the Trump administration is openly and deliberately defying an order from the Supreme Court. I believe that Trump believes it doesn't say what it says because Stephen Miller lied to him. We all watched him do that and we went over all the reasons why, but that does give you insight into Trump's thinking. 

They asked him about Ukraine and about Netanyahu, if he would drag Trump into a war with Iran and you will see Trump saying like, “Look, I believe we're going to get a done a deal done with Iran.” 

And the question is what happens if the U.S. and Iran reach a deal that is satisfactory to the U.S. but not to Israel? Is Trump going to really tell Israel, We don't care that you don't like this deal, we're doing it anyway? It was basically what Obama told Netanyahu about the Iran deal, along with Russia and Europe. Or is Trump really willing to defy Netanyahu? Or if the Israelis say, “We don't like this deal,” will Trump say, “OK, if this isn't satisfactory to you and we can't get a deal that you're happy with, I guess it's time to go bomb Iran.” 

That's definitely something we'll look for. But I do believe Trump's preference, based on not just things he's saying, but things I've heard from a lot of people inside the administration, is very much that he strongly prefers a deal that does by no mean guarantee though that a deal will happen and that we'll be able to avert a war. 

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Now, the Mailbag. Several of you asked questions about the stories I just ended up covering, including the very first story in the Weekend in Review about the arrest of this judge in Wisconsin. But we still have other questions that we want to get to as many of them as we can in the time that we have allotted. 

Here is a question from @antiwarism who asked the following:

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Yeah! A lot of interesting points that I think are worth examining. First of all, this whole thing with the Bernie and the AOC rallies, they really are attracting a sizable crowd in almost every place they go – 20,000-30,000 people, sometimes more – in not even our largest cities, sometimes in red states and the like. And clearly, they're tapping into something. 

But at the end of the day, what are AOC and Bernie's real message, what is their real agenda? Are they really attracting huge numbers of people to some new way of doing politics? No, they are not. 

They're attracting Democratic Party loyalists and Democratic Party voters who want to feel like they have some outlet for fighting Trump. And Bernie and AOC always lead people into the Democratic Party, it's what they do. Now Bernie has been making more noise lately about creating some kind of an independent party, I'll believe that when I see it. But I don't want to say I find what they're doing irrelevant or trivial because it's not, if you're attracting that many people, you're exciting a good number of people, but toward what end? 

I think toward the end of gathering Democrats, you really have nobody else but Bernie and AOC doing this sort of thing to let them kind of gather and feel like they're engaged in this protest movement, this rallying against the Trump administration, there's nothing else to it. To the extent they have a critique of the Democratic Party, the critique is that the Democrats aren't fighting hard enough against Trump. It's not an ideological critique, it's not anything. It's just – that's all it is. 

So, I'm not sure that necessarily indicates that a bigger or equal in size anti-war movement joining different people from different factions is possible. But I do agree that if anything warrants that, it's opposition to a war in Iran. So let me say a little bit about why I don't think that's happening yet and why, unfortunately, I'm a little skeptical about whether it would. 

Let's look at what just happened with this war in Yemen: One of the things that we've seen from the Trump administration is that most of what the Trump Administration has been doing are things they promised to do during the campaign, including deporting foreign students who participated in protests against Israel, including invoking the Alien Enemies Act to deport people they regard as alien enemies on U.S. soil with no due process. 

You can point to a Trump speech or multiple Trump speeches and interviews where he promised to do all of the things he's doing. One of the exceptions, though, is bombing the Houthis in Yemen. In fact, during 2024, Joe Biden was bombing the Houthis continuously. If you go look and just use Google and look at how many bombing raids Biden ordered throughout 2024 and on what dates, there are most months where they were bombing every day. when Biden was bombing the Houthis, the argument for doing so was, “Well, they're attacking our ships, and we need to stop that.” And at the time, they actually were attacking American ships. 

And Trump was asked about the bombing of the Houthis in mid-2024 by Tim Poole, and we showed you this video before, and Trump criticized Biden for bombing the Houthis. He didn't say, “Oh, the bombing isn’t intense enough. He should either really bomb or not bomb at all.” He said, “Why would we bomb the Houthis? There's no reason to bomb the Houthis. You just use diplomacy, and you pick up the phone and you get that solved.”

 So, not only didn't Trump ever say he was going to bomb the Houthis in the campaign, he actually criticized Biden for having done so. And that was at least at a time when the Houthis really were attacking American ships because they perceived, obviously correctly, that it was the United States funding the Israeli destruction of Gaza, which is what they were protesting, and so they regarded America as a legitimate target. 

Once the cease-fire was imposed or agreed to, the day before Trump was inaugurated, that Trump deserves credit, along with Steve Witkoff, for having facilitated, the Houthis said, “Okay, there's a cease-fire. We're not going to attack any ships anymore.” And they stopped. 

They only resumed attacking ships once the Israelis started violating the terms of the cease-fire by refusing to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza as required by the cease-fire. And when they said they were going to resume attacking ships, they said, “We're only going to attack Israeli ships.” Not even American ships. So, now they're only attacking Israeli ships, as opposed to 2024, and Trump said out of nowhere, “Oh, we're going to start bombing the crap out of the Houthis” and Trump has been bombing the crap out to the Houthis. 

It's not just the daily bombing like Biden was doing. They're using much heavier weaponry. They're bombing more intensively; they're bombings with fewer constraints about civilian deaths. 

I watched the MAGA movement saying we need to stop the Middle East wars. And they heard Trump criticize Biden for having bombed the Houthis. Yet, when Trump said, “We're going to start bombing the Houthis,” and now that he's bombing the Houthis, how much resistance or opposition from MAGA have you heard? I've heard very little. 

In fact, I remember one of the most sickening things I've seen in a while, which is Trump posted a video of about 60 Yemenis standing in a circle, and he claimed, “Oh, these are people who gathered to plot attacks on American ships,” which made no sense for so many reasons, like, why would they be standing outdoors doing that when they know there are American drones hovering overhead, bombing them all the time? There was zero evidence that that's what it was. And then the footage showed an American bomb, a very heavy American bomb, probably like 1,000 pounds, maybe 2,000 pounds, drop there, just incinerating all of them. You see the aftermath: there's no one there anymore. They're gone. All 60 people extinguished, wiped out.

 And I saw huge numbers of MAGA people saying, “Yeah, we got the terrorists. Yeah,” like it was Dick Cheney in 2002, 2003. And that started alarming me. I said, wait, if Trump does Middle East wars after one of the primary views of MAGA was that we're fighting too many Middle East wars, is there really going to be no opposition? Are they just going to get on board with the ever-Middle East wars Trump says we need to fight, including against Iran? Am I going to now start hearing, “Yeah, it's the Mullahs, they hate America, they hate Israel, these are the dangerous ones. We we got to do a regime change. We got to bomb their nuclear facilities.” It started making me wonder. 

What has given me more hope is that it isn't just Tucker Carlson, though he's an important voice, but Charlie Kirk, who probably, in terms of influence within MAGA, is at least on Tucker's level now, came out and said something very similar, which is, “Look, the war drums are beating very loudly in Washington. This is very real. There's a good chance that we are actually going to go to war with Iran.” And if Trump does that, that will kill the MAGA movement. This is exactly the kind of war that has destroyed our country and we can't allow any more of. 

So, my hope is that this kind of transideological, cross-factional section of the political spectrum that you identified will actually come together in some way, even if it's not a kind of overt union, that still people will be raising their voices very loudly in opposition. I think one of the reasons why it's not happening yet is because they're not really prepping the United States population for a war with Iran. In fact, as I said, you have Trump saying, “No, I want a deal with Iran, I don't want to bomb Iran, I don't want to go to war with Iran,” “I want to do a deal with Iran” and “I think we can do a deal with Iran.” They've had these initial meetings and Trump was very positive about saying we made some great progress. 

For people to really get worked up over this, I think they need to feel like they're getting signals from the government that a war, if not imminent, is at least much more possible than the government is suggesting now. Even though we have plenty of signs that the war is very plausible. But I think people have to feel the urgency a little bit more. 

I think there are a lot of MAGA supporters who feel like they have to stay consolidated behind Trump for the moment. There are a lot who like what he's doing in deportations, especially in immigration and in other areas as well and they feel like it's not the time to really go to war with anything Trump does. I've seen a lot of them sort of stay quiet on things that I know they don't like Trump doing. 

The war with Iran will be the real test. I mean, bombing the Houthis, it stays invisible, there's not a lot of media coverage of it. A lot of people think, “Ah, the Houthis, it's like the poorest country in the region. They're probably all terrorists anyway.” Just drop some bombs as long as you're not sending American troops there or whatever. Who really cares? That's what I think the attitude is, whereas a war with Iran, even a bombing raid against Iran would be far more consequential. But until I see a real rising up, of the kind of core MAGA faction against something Trump does, I'm going to have doubts about whether they're really going to do it. 

It was really interesting to me, I remember in that transition period, when Vivek Ramaswamy really agitated a lot of people when he came out and talked about the problems of American culture, we value leisure too much and we don't value hard work and nerds, all of that. And then that led to Elon Musk coming out and demanding more H-1B visas to bring in skilled workers from China and from India, from wherever, to work for Silicon Valley and other tech companies. And a lot of people in MAGA said, “What? What do you mean? You want to bring in foreign workers to do jobs in the United States?” I mean, the whole idea is we're supposed to do these jobs. 

And the message of the Vivek explicitly and Elon implicitly was, “No, Americans aren't smart enough or skilled enough or trained enough to do these jobs, we need to bring them in from China and India and other places where their education is better.” And that created this kind of huge war, where a lot of people in MAGA wanted to go to war with Elon Musk and Vivek over this issue, like H-1Bs, “No, you're not going to bring in foreign workers. The whole point is we want fewer foreigners in our country and more Americans doing jobs.” 

Then Trump came in at a certain point, and even though he had previously said, we need fewer H-1B visas, we have to give these Americans these jobs, he had said that in his prior campaigns, he came in and sided with Elon and said, “No, H-1B visas are important for our country, important for companies.” And that pretty much put an end to the MAGA uprising. Like, daddy came in and said this is how it's going to be. And they all said, okay. And you haven't heard from that again. And that did disturb me because that is fundamental to the MAGA agenda, not bringing in more foreign workers to work for American companies but having those be available for American jobs. 

As soon as Trump sided with Elon, they kind of said, okay, I guess that settles it for now. It was during the transition; the Trump administration hadn't even begun. So, I was willing to say, maybe they just don't want to go to war with the Trump administration before it even starts. That kind of makes sense. But I'm still in wait-and-see mode on whether the MAGA movement is really willing to vocally object to what Trump does, even something as significant as a war with Iran, and I'm not entirely convinced yet that, I'm sure some of them will, but whether masses of them do, I am not yet convinced, but I hope I'm wrong about that. 

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The next question is from @Kurl_Malone, who says:

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I definitely followed all of this with a great deal of interest and what I found so notable about it is that the people you named, Douglas Murray, Sam Harris, Konstantin Kisin, are all people who have basically created careers and thrive within independent media and one of the kind of defining ethos of independent media, a flag I've raised myself before, is that the scope of the voices that corporate media believes is worthy of being heard is extremely narrow, even when they're giving you some “experts” they're not just randomly finding experts on a topic and then seeing what they have to say. They're choosing them based on the agenda and the narrative they want to promote. 

I don't know many people who have more in-depth expertise on international relations than Professor John Mearsheimer. When's the last time you saw him quoted in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, or on NBC or CBS analyzing world events? He doesn't have the right narrative. It's not a question of credentials. 

Part of the idea of why we need independent media is precisely because corporate media selects a tiny range of voices and a tiny range of views that can be heard and they have a very stifled sense of what expertise is. The idea of independent media was like, hey, no, ordinary citizens deserve to be heard too, a lot of times they have an understanding of things or a view of things which is more informed and more valuable than the so-called “experts.” 

I really try hard not to fall into romanticization of working-class people or people who haven't gone to elite schools, because every group of people has their flaws and their bad characteristics and when you start to idealize the working class as this group with wisdom and superior empathy or knowledge or whatever, it's always a little bit manipulative in its own right, it's kind of the mirror image of romanticizing elite Ivy League professors. 

I did a debate in New York 10 days ago, maybe, about misinformation, disinformation, internet censorship, all of that and it was a debate between myself and two other people. One is a woman who's on the faculty of George Washington University and does research into disinformation. So, like a disinformation expert, though, to her credit, she doesn't like that term, but that's essentially what she was there to be. And then a University of Virginia professor, who's a professor of Media Studies, who is regarded as a great expert in studying media and disinformation or whatever. |It was about a two-hour debate, and I was obviously more adversarial to both of them, though I liked her very much. I was more impressed with the nuances of her view. With all these credentials, PhD in this and whatever, and on the faculty of a very good university, the University of Virginia, every view that he had was like this extremely banal, cliched, predictable, inch-deep, liberal, MSNBC view of politics, kind of prettified with the language of scholarship. 

But everything he was saying was just so reflexive and the idea that there's even another way to look at things besides how he looks at it was offensive to him. He could not conceive of that. He really believed that his political worldview was so correct that it ought to be deemed the truth and anything that deviates from it is by definition disinformation. Even in topics that he's not an expert in, like COVID, where he was saying, anyone who disputes Dr. Fauci, people like Jay Bhattacharya, don't really have expertise in science, they're just crackpots, no matter what their credentials are. 

So, there are a lot of people who are so-called “experts” who just get so immersed in a certain subculture where they just get validated all the time in their political views that they become far more blind as a result of their expertise than they are open-minded. 

I think one of the most important things that independent media does is it allows people to build their own credibility and I absolutely think you can become an expert in a particular field without necessarily having degrees from top universities. 

I'm not somebody who disbelieves in expertise. If I want to understand how a plane works, I'm likely to seek out a pilot or an aeronautical engineer rather than just some random person on the internet. If I have an issue with some organ of mine, like my heart, or something my kids do, I'm going to go to a cardiologist, not going to just do a Google search for somebody who claims to understand the heart. So, it's not that I disbelieve expertise, but especially when it comes to political debate, I think confining yourself to that is extremely stultifying. 

And that has been what independent media has ultimately been fueled by, this idea that we can listen to a lot of people and ultimately decide, like, who's the most informed? Who really is thinking most independently, most critically, most skeptically? Sometimes it's people who don't necessarily have credentials. That has been what independent media has been about: finding new voices, different voices, people with different perspectives than what the “expert” class is offering. 

And the king of independent media for years has been Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan has built many of these people's careers, many of their careers, by going on multiple times, by having him endorse their work. I was on Rogan's show once, but he very, very often talked about my work and recommends it but I’m not somebody whose career or platform has in any way been built on or depended on Joe Rogan, but a lot of these people have. So, typically you hear almost no criticism of Joe Rogan in the realm of independent media because of the power that he possesses because of his gigantic audience. 

Suddenly, lo and behold, over the past couple of months, you're now hearing not just criticism of Joe Rogan, but very assertive, vocal, accusatory critiques of him from many of these people who have thrived in independent media and often been on Rogan's show many times. And the only thing that has really changed about the Rogan show is that over the past year or so he has been putting on more and more people who are vocal critics of Israel. 

And that's when Douglas Murray went on to Joe Rogan's show with Dave Smith, he clearly went on with the intention not to debate Dave Smith but to scold Joe Rogan for having too many Israel critics on and not enough Israel supporters. And I was like, what? I remember so well, basically from October 7 onward that most of the people Joe Rogan had on talking about Israel were vehemently pro-Israel. He had Ben Shapiro on. He had Coleman Hughes on several times, a fanatical supporter of Israel, who works for the Free Press. I mean, just one after the next. I was even going to make a list, but it was too long. Somebody recently put together a video, I just saw it today, where Douglas Murray says, “You don't have any people on who have the other view on Israel,” and he just did this huge montage of the huge numbers of people who are fanatically pro-Israel that have been on Joe Rogan's show. 

But that's the norm in the view of Israel supporters like Sam Harris and Douglas Murray and Konstantin Kisin. It’s yeah, of course you put Israel supporters on because those are the people who have the right view and who are all throughout the media. It's basically almost a requirement to be a supporter of Israel to get into the media. But the problem is that Joe Rogan has been putting on a lot of people who are not just opponents of Israel, but pretty aggressive ones. He's had on Ian Carroll; Darryl Cooper, who writes under MartyrMade; Dave Smith, several times. And that is really starting to worry a lot of very pro-Israel people, that it's not just once in a while now that Joe Rogan is putting on critics of Israel but doing so with more and more frequency, despite how often he also still has on heavy support of Israel. 

But that is not permitted. Israel supporters look for any source of Israel criticism, and they target that. That's why college campuses are being targeted; that's why TikTok got targeted. We talked before about how the original claim about TikTok was it was dangerous because of China, but that wasn't enough to get votes. Only once people became convinced that there was too much criticism of Israel on TikTok, did that get banned. And now they're after The Joe Rogan's Show and they're using this idea of expertise. Like, hey, you're putting on these people like Dave Smith and Ian Carroll and Darryl Cooper and other Israel critics who aren't experts. They don't know anything. You should only have experts on. 

Somehow, Douglas Murray considers himself an expert, even though the only degree he has is an undergraduate degree in English. So, if you were judging expertise through normal credentials, you might invite Douglas Murray on to analyze the Canterbury Tales and Chaucer, but not much else, just like if you're going to do a show on English literature. He also got into a tank, and the IDF took him around for about eight seconds to a few places in Gaza that they wanted to show him like, hey, look, here's a tunnel, here's this, here's that. And he thinks he's an expert because of that, because he went on a propaganda trip. 

And so, now, suddenly, you see these people on independent media desperate to tell Rogan why they can't have Israel critics on, and they're invoking the same kind of gatekeeping's conception of expertise that corporate media for so long has embraced to exclude voices, which they think ought to be excluded. 

Everyone can see what's going on here. Everyone understands what's motivating this.  I think that a lot of Israel supporters are getting increasingly desperate as Israel critics find more and more of a platform, as more places are giving voice to Israel criticism. There are more parts of the political spectrum open to that. Polls show that support for Israel is declining. It's kind of like lashing out, like, “Oh my god, you can't put him on. He's not an expert.”  When, of course, it's not about expertise, like how is Sam Harris or Douglas Murray or Konstantin Kisin an expert in Israel any more than, say, Dave Smith is? They're not. They just are deemed to have the right level of knowledge because they're supporters of Israel and that's essential. If you're an expert in the Middle East, by definition, according to them, you're going to be an Israel supporter. 

So, I do think it's very revealing but also very expected. Whenever some new venue or new faction is the outsider force, it's easy to wave these rebel flags like, yeah, we're the dissidents, we're disruptors. But then the minute they start to become the gatekeepers of opinion and information, they start replicating the tactics of the establishment they set out to subvert, because they're now engaged in ruling-class or establishment behavior. And it's very interesting to watch Rogan become the target of that by people who he's valued and has helped build a career. 

We'll see whether or not he's influenced by it and to the extent which he is. It's a very powerful critique they're bringing and it's not people who Rogan doesn't like or hates, but who he knows and respects. They're all unified now, trying to pressure him to either stop putting on so many Israel critics or make sure that they always have an Israel supporter right by their side when he does, and we'll see how that works. 

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All right, last question: @ScottishBear92 asked the following:

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Yeah, it's interesting. I used to talk a lot more than I do now at colleges, journalism schools. But I would get this question a lot. And basically, what I would always tell people is that you have to begin, if you're going to take a riskier career path, which is what journalism is, there's safer career paths. You can go to law school and become a lawyer, medical school and be a doctor, or accounting school, become an accountant. You're going to have a much easier path of security, guaranteed income, and the like. In journalism, the ceilings are higher, but the floors are lower too. I mean it in a lot of ways. It's a collapsing profession in some ways, but in other ways, it's a thriving and growing one, depending on what you want to do. 

And the question becomes: Do you have a passion? An actual passion, like, do you just like talking about political and social issues, or is there something you're very passionate about? And if you are passionate about that, you have to know what that passion is and then do everything to make certain that it becomes your driving force at all times. 

I think that's advice for anybody who's entering some kind of line of work that they're doing, not because it's the most stable or the safest, but because they believe that it's something they really want to do. 

When I went to law school, I had so many ideals, so many passion-based ambitions. I went to NYU Law School, it's regarded as one of the top law schools, but also kind of a more permissive law school, it's not necessarily intended to be a feeder into corporate law. And so, a lot of people end up there with all this passion. And I watch as they go through law school and corporate law firms start luring them with big paychecks and all sorts of other access, that passion starts to get extinguished, to fade out. It becomes kind of this relic of young adulthood, and now it's time to be a real grown-up, where you care about your paycheck, stability, building a family and whatever. These educational institutions, same with journalism schools for sure, are designed to extinguish that passion. 

So, unless you want to take the safest path, like I'm going to go to Columbia Journalism School – and even then, that's not as safe, but at least it's safer, you can do that as a career choice as any other career choice, doing this to become known or make money or have different career paths. 

But if you actually feel passionate about something, I really believe that on the internet, in independent media, people who are passionate, who have a real voice, a real conviction, a real genuine commitment to a set of ideals, and then the ability to pursue them, to articulate them, a willingness to really work on them and offer something unique that other people aren't already offering within media, I still believe there are massive paths for fulfillment and success and growth.  It's a lot less secure of a path than it used to be because you used to have a very clear path laid out. You'd go to top journals in school, you would start at a newspaper, you would cover zoning, board meetings, then city council meetings, and then work your way up to the state, and then become a national reporter. That's pretty much gone, or certainly, radically reduced. 

The future is in independent journalism, but that requires a lot of self-sufficiency. A commitment to really trying to find a unique voice that is needed, that offers some value and, to me, that in turn requires not just having passion, but being committed to keeping that passion protected and preserved and nurtured. Even if along the way you have to make a few concessions. Again, I'm going to take this job, not because it's really going to fuel my passion, but because it going to get me to a place where I can then do that. I think it's very important to keep contact with and not ever let anyone suffocate or extinguish that passion, which ultimately is what drives unique work. 

 

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Ok, let's do one more. Last question, actually, from @antiwarism again. 

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I like all animals, almost equally. That's why I'm vegan. And that's why I'm disgusted by the cruelty and immorality and disease-ridden filth of factory farms. The problem is if you have 25 dogs as we do, you can't really have a lot of cats around you, but I always had cats before I started having dogs. We have cats at our shelter. Sometimes they rescue cats and bring them to the shelter. So, you can pretty much replace cats with any animal and ask me if I like them and the answer will almost certain yes. Life itself, human life, animal life, and just animals in general, I find to be some of the most majestic and worthwhile and fulfilling things on the planet. So, it's very hard for me to think of an animal that I don't like, even one that you might think people wouldn't generally like.


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Zelensky Rejects Trump's Ukraine Proposal; What Happened to the Epstein Files? Plus: Richard Medhurst Facing Criminal Charges in UK for Israel Reporting
System Update #442

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Before I get to the plan of the show, I want to expel a little bit of frustration and irritation with the fact that every day now, there is a new assault on press freedom on American campuses and elsewhere in American society in the name of protecting Israel – so many of them, in fact, that we cannot possibly report on them all. We can't possibly keep up with them. 

Earlier today, it was reported, for example, that a singer who had been invited to perform at Cornell University had her invitation officially rescinded by the school administration because she had in the past criticized Israel in a way that was, of course, deemed pro-Hamas or antisemitic or whatever. Remember all the right-wing grievances about cancel culture? This is actually continuous cancel culture. 

There have been other pro-Palestinian speakers or other people who have come to speak about the war in Gaza who have been similarly uninvited because the climate has already been successfully created where people are afraid now to have speaking on campus anyone who might criticize Israel because they know that the hammer of the federal government will come smashing down upon them. 

In the course of all of this reporting I've been doing, I've been appearing in a lot of places, doing a lot of interviews and, as usual, having exchanges with people online in good faith, trying to explain what it is that's happening. I spent a lot of time during the Biden administration talking about and denouncing the Biden administration's pressure on Big Tech to remove dissent from the internet, which was an extremely grave assault on free speech and what we have here in so many ways is so much worse. 

We’re seeing people being swept up off the street by plain clothes agents and put into prison for the crime of writing op-eds that are critical of Israel, having our most important and our finest academic research institution stripped of funding, including people trying to find treatments and cures for diseases if they don't sign loyalty pledges saying they won't boycott Israel, or if there's a perception that they aren't loyal to Israel.

We have the Trump administration imposing expanded hate speech codes on campuses just to protect Israel and American Jewish students – and nobody else – and even demanding that Middle East studies programs and their curricula be put under receivership so that the Trump administration is satisfied that there's enough pro-Israel content being taught as part of this curricula and not too much pro-Palestinian content. We’re talking here not about third grade; we're talking about adults in colleges where academic freedom is supposed to reign. 

And watching the number of Trump supporters who have spent the last 10 years pretending to believe in free speech and being outraged by censorship – I know I've said this before. I'm just kind of venting a little bit – hearing from them so often with the most obscene justifications for why this censorship is permissible or just making up outright lies about the people who are being deported, saying they harassed or attacked Jewish students, vandalized buildings or occupied buildings, none of which is true for the cases that we're discussing, I don't even have the words for it any longer for the level of fraud that this movement is guilty of from having branded themselves in a certain way for a full decade only to switch on a dime in the face of one of the most systemic censorship regimes I've ever seen in my life, one that threatens academic freedom and free speech throughout the country, it is really quite nauseating, really quite sickening. 

And it doesn't seem like it has any end in sight because the more the Trump administration does it, every day new measures are being announced. Yesterday, of course, we talked about the new NIH guidelines designed to deny funding and grants to medical researchers if they don't sign a pledge saying they don't participate in the boycott of Israel. 

Every time a new measure is announced, Trump supporters feel even more compelled to support their leader, and they invent new theories all the time, which, by the way, aren't really even new. They sound exactly like the left liberal censorship theories that they spent the last decade mocking. 

You have more censorship being fortified every day from an administration that just three months ago was ushered in, based on an explicit promise to end censorship. JD Vance went to Europe to castigate them for not sharing American values or free speech, by imposing political censorship, and yet the censorship against people who are critical of Israel could not be any greater. 

We're going to have on the show a journalist, Richard Medhurst, who is actually under a very serious and active criminal investigation in the EU for having reported negatively on Israel. That's something, of course, JD Vance submitted when he went to the EU to scold them about their censorship. So, it's just really remarkable to see. 

We're not going to report on it specifically tonight, of all the venting that I just did on it, but it was something that I had to remark upon. 

Before having Richard Medhurst on, we’ll talk about the war in Ukraine – remember that? There have been some significant, if not encouraging, new developments in these negotiations, which we want to tell you about and break down the significance of. Then, we’ll review the relevant facts on these ample Epstein files, which seemed to have disappeared from the news cycle, I think, by intention. 

Let’s get back to the plan.

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 War in Ukraine, even though we don't talk about it anymore – and I don't mean we specifically on the show, sometimes we do, but I mean, we collectively, we as a country – it’s just a war that goes on. People are still dying every day, people are being bombed, people are being chased with drones and there are all kinds of missiles being launched continuously. The dangers of escalation continue to unfold. 

And I have to say the Trump administration, despite my many critiques of much of what they're doing, deserves a lot of credit because they really are following through in a very aggressive way in an attempt to bring about an end to this war diplomatically.

 The reality of the war, whether people like it or not, is that Russia is winning. Russia has been dominating the war; Ukraine has far more of a reason to end the war than Russia does and, of course, whatever diplomatic resolution is achieved will be more favorable to Russia than to Ukraine.

 Yet, we're already seeing people accusing Trump of capitulating to the Russians because the proposals that they're talking about, which are the only ones that have any chance of ending the war, have terms that are favorable to Russia in them for the obvious reason that Russia is winning and Russia would never accept terms not favorable to it.

It seems as though many of the terms that Zelenskyy is going to end up having to accept are ones he's refusing to accept. Trump's frustration with Ukraine is growing and growing and we'll see where that leads. 

First of all, here from CNN earlier today:

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Now, as you might recall, Crimea had for centuries been part of Russia. It ended up being part of Ukraine through a series of complicated transactions that Putin regards as an error. In 2014, when the United States government with Victoria Nuland, John McCain and Chris Murphy, the whole gang, went over and helped overthrow the democratically elected government in Kiev that was more leaning toward Moscow than to the EU – and that was the reason we overthrew them and instead installed a much more pro-EU, pro-U.S. Government. In response to having the EU and the U.S. now dominant inside Ukraine, on the other side of the Russian border, even changing the government, the Russians took Crimea, an extremely geostrategically important spot. It's what gives them access to the Black Sea. The reality is, is that the people of Crimea, nobody doubts this, overwhelmingly, I'm talking about 90%, identify as Russian, not as Ukrainian. They are far more loyal to the Russians, they want to be governed by Moscow and not by Kiev. There's no possibility that the Russians will ever give back Crimea, especially with NATO so involved in Ukraine. 

And so, what the Trump administration is doing is simply saying that we, the United States, will recognize that Crimea is part of Russia. Not that the Ukrainians have to, not that the Europeans have to, just that we, the Americans, will, because the reality is that Crimea is never going back to Ukraine. Yet, that's something Zelenskyy refuses to accept. 

I have news for Zelenskyy. Russia is occupying and controlling Ukraine and those other provinces in Eastern Ukraine, whether he likes it or not. He may wish there were a fantasy world where Ukraine was going to control it, but there is no world in which that will ever happen. And so, obviously, the Americans are trying to work within the Russian reality and the Ukrainian reality when you try to negotiate a war. 

 Steve Witkoff, by all accounts, has been doing an excellent job of genuinely trying to foster an end to this war. What Witkoff and others have been saying is that you need to understand things from the Russian perspective and the Ukrainian perspective to understand what's possible in a deal, which is basic diplomacy. The Biden administration wouldn’t even talk to Russia. The EU won't even talk to Russia. The Trump administration is doing so in a way that will advance this diplomacy. 

The real Russian objective was never to take over all of Ukraine. That might've been their view at the very beginning, I even doubt that. Their concern was what these Eastern provinces of Ukraine, where the vast majority of people are Russian speaking and ethnic Russian and the perception was that the Kiev government had become increasingly brutalizing and abusive of their rights, had disregarded their cultural history and their religious traditions – that was why there was a low-grade civil war, basically a war for independence going back to 2014 between these provinces in Eastern Ukraine and Kiev. 

The Russians, on top of wanting to preserve and protect the rights of the people who live there, also wanted that as a buffer zone. So, if they have these four provinces, it's not as easy for NATO to go up to the Russian border. And that was always the solution: NATO doesn't go in Ukraine, and Crimea stays with Russia, and these four provinces have some sort of semi-autonomous or autonomous status, depending on what they want in a referendum, or join Russia and become part of Russia. That gives the Russians the buffer zone and the security that they need and Ukraine won't be a NATO member as well. And then Ukraine gets some sort of ambiguous security guarantee from some combination of Europe and the U.S. 

This is what the kind of negotiation looked like at the beginning of the war back in March and April 2022, when the two sides were very close to negotiating an agreement that could have averted this war. That was when Boris Johnson and Victoria Nuland swept in and told Zelenskyy that under no circumstances could he agree to that resolution and they would promise to give him all the money and weapons he needed to fight the Russians until the very end. And those are the people who have all this blood on their hands. 

Now, it is always strange that Zelenskyy is in this position where he depends upon the United States, depends upon the Trump administration to fund his war effort, to give them the weapons he needs, to even be able to stay competitive in this war.

 And when that happens, when you're dependent, kind of a vassal state, and that state tells you, “Look, we're not going to continue to support this war, here's an agreement that we think is fair for you” as Trump told Zelenskyy in the White House, “you don't have that many cards to play” and yet Zelenskyy continues to act as though he's the one dictating the terms

The peace plan put forward by the Trump administration didn't even require Ukraine to acknowledge that Crimea belonged to Russia, who cares if Ukraine acknowledges that or not? The peace plan was that the United States would recognize Crimea as being Russian. But the defiance of Zelenskyy, yet again, when he depends upon the Trump administration, of the United States and the American taxpayer to fund his war, was something that, to put it mildly, did not sit well with Trump, and he had one of those reactions he's had to Zelenskyy in the past. 

This is what he posted on Truth Social earlier today:

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Again, it is true that the United States, independent of who you think is right or wrong or what you think the right outcome is, has a very strong interest in ending this war. We're paying for the war (not all of it, the Europeans are paying for a lot of it as well); our stockpiles are being depleted, especially when we also have to feed the Israelis arms and now, we're using a ton of arms ourselves to bomb Yemen. We have this rapidly depleting stockpile. 

The American government should have as its primary concern the interests of the American people and the United States and it has never been in the interests of the American People. I've said this from the very start: to fight a war with Russia, even a proxy war, over who rules various provinces of Eastern Ukraine – whether they stay under the governance of Kiev, whether they end up autonomous or semi-autonomous from the land up with Moscow, where most of the people prefer – what impact does that have on the American people and their material well-being at all? 

The Trump administration seems to be reaching the end of its rope in terms of their willingness to allow Zelenskyy to act as though he has equal leverage in any of this when he clearly doesn't. 

Here's The New York Times yesterday:

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Given all the various conflicts taking place – the green light that the Trump administration gave to the Israelis to destroy Gaza even further, the occupation of the Israelis of increasing amounts of territory both in Syria and Lebanon, their ethnic cleansing taking place with very little attention being paid in the West Bank, the resumption and escalation of the Biden bombing campaign by Trump in Yemen, and the threats that are being issued on a daily bases now to Iran, ones that we covered at length last night, it's absolutely imperative to American national security that this war come to an end to financial security, and economic security and military national security as well. 

If the Trump administration continues to perceive that Zelenskyy simply doesn't want to end the war because he has been told repeatedly by the U.S. that they will give him whatever he wants, at some point, the only solution is to withdraw that funding, withdraw that arming of Ukraine, something the Trump administration hasn't wanted to do yet, because if they did that, it would make a negotiation impossible, Russia would have zero incentive to do so. However, at some point, if the perception continues to be accurate that the impediment to ending this war is Zelenskyy, that will become the only outcome. 

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Remember the Epstein files? As Donald Trump spent 2024 promising to release, the Epstein files were supposedly released back in February when Pam Bondi invited a bunch of right-wing influencers to the White House, handing them big, flamboyant notebooks that said on them “Epstein's files” and they were all smiling thinking that they had an exclusive on all this good stuff that was for the first time going to be publicly revealed. As it turned out, the whole thing was a sham; all these documents had been long ago made public in a whole variety of ways through various litigations and FOIA requests on the part of media outlets. There was absolutely nothing new in any of them. 

The whole issue of the client list and the like, I understand why that gets people interested and excited, but the reality is that we've already seen so much evidence of the people with whom Jeffrey Epstein was cavorting. People of the highest status and wealth throughout the world, who basically brought down Prince Andrew of the British royal family. We know Bill Clinton and Donald Trump both had extensive relationships, social relationships, with Jeffrey Epstein, which doesn't mean that they were on his island or having sex with underage girls, but we know all the people who have been associated with Jeffrey Epstein for a long time. There may be some client list, although Pam Bondi says I haven't seen anything shocking so far.

To me, the much more interesting question is the geopolitical one. Obviously, when you have the most powerful people on the planet being put into compromising positions on Jeffrey Epstein’s island, on his plane, in his mansion in Palm Beach, in his mansion in the middle of Manhattan – and we know that all kinds of tapes and recordings have been made that gives enormous amounts of blackmail power over these people – but the questions of whether foreign governments, whether intelligence agencies in our country or others, in some way, exploited that information… 

There’s always been a question of what the real source of Jeffrey Epstein's massive wealth was. We're talking here about a multibillionaire wealth. He wasn't just somebody who was extremely wealthy. There are zillions of people like those. There are all sorts of ways to become wealthy on that level. We're talking about somebody who had just the kind of wealth that only billionaires have, massive jets that were private, that he took everywhere; $80 to $100 million properties all over the world, the ability to purchase a private island, to donate massive sums of money. Where did that money come from?

 Nobody has ever been able to answer that. We know a couple of things, including his relationship with somebody named Les Wexner, who himself is a multibillionaire with whom Jeffrey Epstein worked. But there's no identifiable expertise that Jeffrey Epstein had. He never did anything on Wall Street that was particularly impressive. The question has always been, was there some government, some intelligence agency behind him with whom he was working, or for whom he was working to create, essentially, a honey trap? That would give these intelligence agencies knowledge of and therefore power over what a lot of people were doing. 

That, to me, is the answer that we don't have any resolution on. Maybe the answer to that is no, but we really haven't had any sort of documentation providing guidance on that one way or the other. 

We know for certain that these files are in the custody of the U.S. government, which has repeatedly promised to release them, pretended to release them back in February, although they didn't. Where are the answers to those questions? When will we get the answers to the questions, if ever? 

What we're being told right now is that the reason we can't have them is that there are redactions that need to take place for national security purposes. I understand that some of these files would need to be redacted before being released. You don't want to release the names, for example, of victims who haven't been identified, who don't want to be identified, of some of the girls who were sex trafficked. That makes sense. Perhaps you don't even want to release the names of the people who were Jeffrey Epstein's associates, but you have no evidence they engaged in any wrongdoing because that can harm their reputation. I understand that as well. 

But why would there be national security redactions unless Jeffrey Epstein had relationships with foreign governments? If Jeffrey Epstein had a relationship with a foreign government, it seems like we could probably narrow down which ones are the most likely and then that leads me to the question of whether or not it's possible that, if those answers exist within the files of the U.S. government, under the Trump administration, we will ever actually see those at all. At the very least, we ought to keep up the pressure. 

Trump has been asked about this on a couple of occasions, including on April 22, which was yesterday. He was in the Oval Office, and he was asked, “Hey, what about those Epstein files?” And here's what he said. 

Video. Donald Trump, C-SPAN2. April 22, 2025.

He's absolutely right about that. There was a full disclosure of the JFK files. Now, there are still some files within the CIA and other places that haven't quite been released. But the documents they released were in unredacted fashion. And that's why I have those questions about the Epstein files. Why are all these redactions necessary for this, but not for the JFK files? 

Again, the thing that concerns me the most is when they start saying that their redactions are for national security purposes. What possible national security implications are there to the Jeffrey Epstein case, unless we're talking about relationships with domestic intelligence agencies or foreign intelligence agencies? 

We do have some clues about some of the people, the extremely wealthy people who surrounded Jeffrey Epstein, who seemed responsible in some way for his ability to construct this very powerful network of highly connected people and what their connections are. 

The Middle East Monitor published in January 2020: “Jeffrey Epstein was blackmailing politicians for Israel’s Mossad, new book claims.” The article said: The claims are being made by the alleged former Israeli spy Ari Ben-Menashe in a soon-to-be-released book “Epstein: Dead Men Tell No Tales” in which he said that he was the handler of Ghislaine’s father Robert Maxwell, who was also an Israeli espionage agent and was the one who introduced his daughter and Epstein to Mossad.

Now, let me make clear, I'm not endorsing all this or any of this. This has been out in the ether for a long time. These are very sketchy figures. But we do know for sure that Robert Maxwell, the British publishing tycoon who died under very mysterious circumstances, who was the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, who is Jeffrey Epstein's right-hand person who is now serving a long time in prison for helping him traffic young girls, was a huge supporter of Israel, had all kinds of connections to Israel as well. 

In The New York Times, in 1994, there was this headline:

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That was the end of the lawsuit heaping this kind of praise on Seymour Hersh as an author of great integrity after he had accused Robert Maxwell of having very close ties to Israeli intelligence: “In yesterday's proceedings, a lawyer for the Mirror Group, which was controlled by Mr. Maxwell before his death in November 1991, said it acknowledged that Mr. Hersh "is an author of excellent reputation and of the highest integrity who would never write anything which he did not believe to be true and that he was in this instance fully justified in writing what he did." (The New York Times. August 19, 1994.)

The person who was closest to Jeffrey Epstein was Les Wexner, a big-time Wall Street tycoon and investor, a multibillionaire who unquestionably gave massive amounts of money to Jeffrey Epstein nobody really understood why. He claimed, once it became a scandal, that it was because Jeffrey Epstein had developed these extremely innovative techniques to help Les Wexner save huge amounts of tax money. Even if that were true, the amount of wealth Jeffrey Epstein amassed would be nowhere near any kind of rational relationship to that sort of claim. Les Wexner had a very close relationship to Israel as well. 

The Vanity Fair, in June 2021, had an article, “The Mogul and the Monster: Inside Jeffrey Epstein’s Decades-Long Relationship With His Biggest Client,” investigating the many mysteries that still surround the life and crimes of the notorious financier.” “His long-standing business ties with his most prominent client, billionaire retail magnate Leslie Wexner, hold the key.” n 2019, The Times of Israel’s headline is “Netanyahu again goes after Barak for ties to accused billionaire Jeffrey Epstein” (The Times of Israel. July 9, 2019.)

 So, we have a lot of information here that clearly shows that people closest to Jeffrey Epstein themselves were heavily involved with the state of Israel and supporting the state of Israel and having very close operative relationships with Israeli intelligence. There's also reporting, people claim, that Jeffrey Epstein had relationships with Gulf states’ intelligence agencies, including the Emiratis, potentially the Qataris and the Saudis. 

But there's certainly enough here to wonder – and again, I'm not in any way suggesting that this is dispositive. What's dispositive are the records in the possession of the Trump administration and what concerns me, aside from how long it's taking, is that we're being told that they need redactions for national security. And for me, if there's some secret client list that we haven't seen before that contains a bunch of names of people who had sex with Jeffrey Epstein's girls, of course, I guess we should see that, especially if it contains the names of powerful people. I don't think that's the sort of thing that has been concealed, given all the litigation, but I do think what is substantive and what is very possibly out there in documentation is the extent to which Jeffrey Epstein had ties to intelligence agencies, our own or others, and to what extent these operations were part of those intelligence agencies. 

I guess I should say that I have some doubt, given everything we've seen in the Trump administration about the first three months and the importance of Israel and the Gulf States in everything that they're doing, that if such documents exist, they would actually ever see the light of day. 

But given that people have basically stopped talking about the Epstein documents, we thought it was time to remind people that they're still out there, that they have not been released, that there was that fake showing of releasing them at the beginning of the administration that resulted in nothing, the only way to make sure that these documents get released and get released in a form that is actually meaningful is to keep the pressure up. 

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The interview: Richard Medhurst

Richard Medhurst is a truly independent journalist and political commentator born in Damascus, Syria. He regularly hosts live broadcasts discussing all sorts of political controversies from around the globe, U.S. politics and international relations in the Middle East, rooted in an anti-imperialist worldview. In my view, he has become one of the most knowledgeable journalists on a wide variety of issues, including multipolarity. He covered the Assange trial as well as anybody I know. He's also been someone who has covered the civil war for the last six, seven years, the dirty war from the United States in Syria, where he obviously has ties. And for the past several years, two years at least, his focus primarily has been on what a lot of our focus has been, which is on the Israeli war in Gaza. I reached out to him. We've had him on our show several times and we're here to talk about a particularly disturbing case: he is now facing not just the threat, but the very real possibility of criminal prosecution in the EU and in the U.K. as a result of the reporting that he's been doing on Israel, and not just prosecution, but prosecution under terrorism laws. 

G. Greenwald: Richard, I wish we were sitting under better circumstances, but we really appreciate your taking the time to talk to us. We had you on back in August, I think it was when you were actually arrested at Heathrow Airport. Of course, there's always a little personal resonance for me because, as you know, my husband was detained at Heathrow under these anti-terrorism laws. I really got to understand how chilling they were, although his case never went nearly as far as yours have. 

For people who haven't, who haven't been following your case, before we get to the most recent developments, which are even more chilling, talk about, just as a reminder, a kind of summary way, what happened back then and why. 

Richard Medhurst: Yeah, thanks Glenn for having me on and when that happened to David, that was the first time that I also got to understand what this Schedule 7 was, what these terrorism laws were and yeah, so, I landed at Heathrow and they didn't let anyone just embark, they like called me to the front of the plane and I thought it was a Schedule 7, which is when they detain you and it turned out to be like a full arrest, like they put me in cuffs, they jailed me for 24 hours. 

They didn't use Schedule 7, they used section 121A. So, that was like the first time they've ever used that against a journalist. The reason it's so chilling is that if you look at the law, it's very broad, it's very, very broad, so if you give the impression or, you say something that could be completely factual but makes it sound like a lawyer can twist into you supporting X or Y, they can arrest you and charge you and put you in jail for it and that's why it's so chilling for someone as a journalist to be arrested because then you're basically being in prison for doing your job.

They questioned me for about two hours the next day, so I had no idea why I was even there. I was put in this like nasty cell, and then they released me on bail, and I’ve been on bail ever and they've been extending it every three months. 

So, I have to go back on May 15 for now, unless they decide to charge me, to extend it again, or to drop it. And that's almost nine months now that I've been under investigation for so-called terrorism. And it's really stifled my work, and it's stopped me from being able to do my job, because if reporting is now a criminal offense, what's next? And we saw what happened with Julian. Julian was also attacked and put in jail under a different political charge, which was espionage and I feel like they've decided to now use terrorism, which is also political, against me and try to make an example out of me because of my reporting on the genocide in Gaza. 

G. Greenwald: So, there's an important distinction. I want to emphasize that you alluded to it, which is in the case of my husband, who was detained in Heathrow during the Snowden reporting when he was passing through on his way back from Germany to come to Rio, he was detained under Schedule 7. So, he wasn't officially arrested. 

This was a provision that says, if you come to the airport and you have some suspicion of terrorist activity, you can be detained and questioned. They seized his electronic devices.  It was supposed to be nine hours of detention; you can go to the court and convert it to an arrest, and they kept threatening that they would, but they didn't. They ended up letting him go primarily because it became such a big diplomatic scandal. But because they let him go and they didn't arrest him the way they did with you and yours became a more serious case, he was able to sue and in the course of suing, they were forced to say why they detained him and they said it was because of his work with the Snowden reporting. In other words, they had accused him of somehow being a suspect in a terrorism case as a result of the work he was doing, with me, Laura Poitras and the Guardian when it came to journalism. 

Have you had any sort of clear explanation about what the basis was for your arrest and for this ongoing investigation? Do you know for certain why this is? 

Richard Medhurst: No, I really don't. I mean, they obviously hinted at things that they were upset about during the questioning, which I'm not allowed to talk about. But honestly, I can't tell you 100% why I was arrested. I still think that they kind of just got mad at me because of my job. They even made a point that I have a large number of followers, and they were showing me my YouTube channel and my Twitter and commenting on how big my reach is. And making it very clear that basically this was the reason I was a menace, why else would you bring this up? 

So, the point is basically that I'm a bad influence on society or something, and so I think this was really the basis of it. But I'm sure there are other things that they couldn't necessarily arrest me for that annoyed them. For example, a few weeks before I got arrested, I did this massive investigation on Israeli athletes, the football teams, the national football team, the Olympic team, because the Russians had been banned within four days of the Ukraine war, but the Israelis hadn't. And so I showed through the whole social media how all of these athletes were saying genocidal things. 

So, I thought maybe that angered them. Maybe the fact that I covered this gang rape that was happening in the state’s man detention facility. I think it was all of those things. But again, it doesn't mean I deserve to be arrested, but I think in general, my reporting on that and perhaps my reporting on Julian Assange's case as well may have angered the U.K. and U.S. authorities. So, I think it's a mix of these things. And yeah, they certainly escalated it to an arrest. 

I think everybody else who had come through Heathrow, even other journalists, had “only”, in quotation marks, been detained with Schedule 7, as they did to David, they forced you to answer all the questions and hand over your electronics. With me, I was able [to no comment the interview] and they nevertheless made me give my electronics. As a matter of fact, I might face a second case because I've refused to give my password. 

So, this is another law, it's called RIPA [Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000], and it's just as oppressive as the Terrorism Act. If they go to a judge and they get a court order, and you still refuse to give them the passwords, you can go to prison for like two to five years automatically. And I refused to give them the passwords because they took my phones. These are journalistic tools. I'm not going to compromise the safety of sources, acquaintances and other people. I just can't. It's an ethical obligation. So, that's why I refuse. 

G. Greenwald: One of the reasons I'm asking is because, well, I remember, I think I really did start watching you on YouTube, I found your show, when you still had something like 5,000 subscribers. It was really at the beginning. I mean, sometimes people come and say, “Oh, I've been reading your work since your Unclaimed Territory blog, way before Snowden, way before Salon even,” and I always feel like, oh, this is like one of the hardcore original viewers of my show. I kind of feel like that with you, and one of the things that attracted me to your show is that you are extremely passionate, you don't hold back at all, but it's always very, very fact-based. But especially on the topic that people consider sensitive, like Israel and Gaza, you use language that a lot of people would regard as intemperate, you don't really dilute what it is that you're feeling and when you were talking about something like the Israeli destruction of Gaza in particular, I think that is what is appropriate, but it means that you probably do stand out to a government like the U.K., as opposed to a bunch of other people who are speaking critically of Israel and Gaza in sort of more restrained tones. 

But what's really concerning me about your case is that there is this kind of increasing tendency to equate criticism of Israel with support for terrorism. I can't tell you how often, for example, in these cases in the United States, where the students are being arrested and snatched off the street and deported, the only thing they're “guilty” of is protesting the war in Israel and in a lot of people's minds that instantly becomes equated with support for Hamas or support for terrorism, which itself is a crime. And I'm wondering whether, and I know there are some legal constraints that you're operating under because you really do have a serious criminal case pending. 

But whether the theory seems to be that by being so out there, and you've now grown your audience, you have a hundred thousand subscribers, it seems to me that by being so vocally denouncing and condemning the Israeli state, that in some sense it amounts to support for terrorism. 

Does it seem like that's a theory that is being used to justify your criminal prosecution? 

Richard Medhurst: It is. It absolutely is. What they did to me in Austria afterward, where they continued this case, so they ambushed me again, not on a plane, but they lured me to immigration. And you know this thing they've been doing with Mahmoud Khalil in the U.S., where they threatened to rescind his green card? So, about a month before that, they started it with me in Austria. They told me to come to the immigration authorities, and I'd never been summoned there in my life. 

So, I knew something was up. They threatened to take away my permanent residency because of my reporting. If that wasn't enough, they then had these intelligence agents ambush me with a search warrant. I asked them what unit they were; they told me very explicitly that they're the equivalent of MI5 in Austria. 

They served you with a search warrant and they accused me in the warrant of being a Hamas member and not just like a member, but in the military wing. They specifically cited the Kassan brigades and again, when I heard that, I couldn't help but burst out laughing. I was like this must be a dream or something, this is madness, and they're not only – you'll be familiar with this, Glenn, within the U.S. legal system, I think it's called “alleged conduct.” So, when you add like a bunch of narrative in a prosecution to kind of paint someone as a villain, they're not additional charges, but they make you look bad and they could lead to harsher sentencing, that's what they did in the warrant, they added these things like about rape on October 7 and like trying to connect me to those things. 

So, yeah, they basically equated all of my reporting with not just terrorism, like all of the crimes that they said happened on October 7, and they not only threaten to take away my residency, but they also accuse me of being an actual member of the organization of Hamas. 

So yeah, it's actually gone that far and I'm shocked that they can even subject me to two investigations in two countries. I mean, just because of my reporting. Again, it has 100% to do with my reporting, nothing else. The examples they've cited are also outlandish. Like, one of the things the prosecutor in Vienna says in the warrant is, like, I allegedly showed a video of Hamas fighters eating triangle-shaped desserts. I don't even know what to say to all this, but I'm really starting to understand that they have a target on my back. 

And just to underscore your point about the way that I'm reporting things, I think that they really just want to stop me from doing my job, put me behind bars, or just kind like wage lawfare and psychological warfare against me because I expose… 

G. Greenwald: We lost Richard briefly - It just seems to be a sketchy internet connection. 

But a lot of this has become normalized in the sense that I can't even count at this point how many people we've had on our show, who report critically on Israel, searched and seized; they've had their devices taken. Obviously, part of this is to create a climate where people are afraid, where they know that if they criticize Israel too, they might end up in these kinds of situations, but in your case, it seems to have really gone a lot further in that it wasn't just that you had this kind of intimidating moment at Heathrow, it is now continuing to the point where you are facing the real prospect that you could be forced to go back to the U.K. and have to actually confront an indictment and potentially a trial under terrorism laws based on a very kind of vague theory about what you might have done that might have prompted the view that you're in some way supporting Hamas. Where is the current situation and what are the choices that you are facing? 

Richard Medhurst: They keep extending the investigation every quarter, every three months. The police apply for that, and they always get permission, of course. So that's one option for them is to keep me in a permanent state of limbo where I can't work properly and they still get to benefit from me being silent and them not having to take it to court and deal with the drama of an attack on press freedom and everything that would ensue. 

I tried to explain that I'm Christian, they don't allow Christians in Hamas. And their response is, “We're just following orders, it's not up to us, we're just executing the warrant. And they came in here in my studio, in my home, they ransacked the place. I mean, they did everything but rob me. They took thousands of euros worth of gear, every computer I've owned, every piece of gear I've bought since I started this job. And I think that was another attempt to kneecap me, similarly to how, in Heathrow, they took my microphones, like analog wired microphones. What are you going to investigate with an analog microphone? It's just a screw with you to stop you from working. So, I think there was a very clear sequel to what they’d done in Heathrow. And now they're trying to corner me so that they either put me in jail in England or they put me in jail here or make my life hell in both countries and it's beyond an escalation. It's just madness, frankly. 

G. Greenwald: Yeah, I mean, even if it doesn't end up going to those extremes and there's by no means a guarantee that it won't, just the intimidation alone, the fact that you have to constantly have this on your mind automatically detracts from the work that you're able to do. But it also, again, is intended by design to send a signal to other people who are similarly critical of Israel in a similar way within the EU that if you think you can say what you want about Israel, you better think again, because we will use the criminal force of law to harass you in very serious ways and even threaten you with imprisonment. 

It's actually amazing how quickly these things get normalized and the fact that it's gotten this far in your case with very little mainstream media attention, of course, needless to say, it just gives you a kind of sense for how decayed things become on the press freedom front when it comes to this issue. 

In terms of people who might want to help with your work, I'm sure you have defense costs, I'm sure you have other costs in terms of the things that they've taken, how would it be that people can help you and follow your work as well? 

Richard Medhurst: I have a GoFundMe set up, I don't know the link exactly, but patreon.com/richardmedhurst, that's where people can also donate and I'll have updates about my case on my Twitter, so just look up Richard Medhurst on Twitter and you'll find my account. 

And yeah, just a short parenthesis on press coverage, the British press, like six months later, haven't said a word about what happened to me. They didn't report on the U.N. letter that was sent to Keir Starmer as well, signed by four U.N. special rapporteurs. The Austrian press at least covered the raid that happened to me, and they covered it in a more or less balanced or neutral way. So, I just thought I'd say that because I think it once again underscores how sold out the whole U.K. press establishment is. 

G. Greenwald: Yeah, no question about it. 

All right. Well, we’re here for you whenever you need to come on, want to come on and want to talk about anything. We're definitely here for you. We are rooting for you and supporting you. I really regard your case as a serious threat to press freedom, but one that, unfortunately, is becoming increasingly common. I wish I could say it's so aberrational and so extraordinary, but it really, really isn't. And it's always great to see you. I hope you take care of yourself and stay in touch, and we'll talk soon. 


Follow Richard Medhurst on X: https://twitter.com/richimedhurst

Contribute to his GoFundMe Campaign: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-richard-medhursts-journalism

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