Glenn Greenwald
Politics • Culture • Writing
Are We Moving Towards War With Iran? PLUS: Zaid Jilani on the El Salvador Deportations and Harvard’s Fight Against Trump
System Update #440
April 23, 2025
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The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Michael Tracey is filling in for Glenn, who is off “gallivanting around somewhere on one of his mysterious misadventures.” 

Zaid Jilani is Michael’s guest to talk about what everybody is talking about: the Trump administration's threat letter to Harvard, which Harvard has defied.

 Tracey also covers what appears to be telegraphed as an increasingly likely march to war with Iran. According to the intrepid journalist, the war may not happen, but the groundwork is certainly being laid. 

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There was another aspect of that Bukele meeting that hasn't gotten enough coverage: Trump was asked about the Iran negotiations that are sensibly underway between the United States and Iran. It's the first known senior-level contact between American senior leadership and Iranian senior leadership since the Obama administration – infamously, Donald Trump decided to withdraw, after the Obama administration, from Obama's signature foreign policy diplomatic achievement. 

You can criticize that achievement or herald it, but it was his signature achievement, I think it would be hard to dispute, which was the Iran nuclear deal, or the JCPOA. 

Trump campaigned for president in 2016, denouncing that deal. I vividly recall him appearing at a Tea Party Patriots protest in September 2015, alongside Ted Cruz, that was devoted to denouncing the JCPOA, with Trump saying he had never seen a worse negotiated deal in his entire life. 

Anyway, direct negotiations, or at least direct contacts, we don't really know the full extent of what's been discussed yet, have begun between the United States and Iran as of this past weekend. And Trump was asked about those negotiations. 

So, let's hear what he had to say. 

Video. Donald Trump, Nayib Bukele. April 14, 2025.

 That's Trump being asked if he is contemplating, or does the outcome envisioned here include a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities, and Trump says, “Of course it does.”

Trump has been becoming more and more brazen with these overt threats against Iran, particularly since March 30, when he decided to place a phone call to Kristen Welker, of NBC News, the host of “Meet the Press.” “There will be bombings the likes of which they have never seen before.” That's what Trump called up Kristen Welker of NBC News and told her in a phone interview. 

There could be an extent to which people are inured by this because Trump says a million things every day, some are deliberately incendiary, some are sarcastic, some are trolling, some may be earnest. Who knows? We can never quite settle on what the proportion is here in terms of how we're supposed to interpret the endless cacophony of Trump’s remarks on a given day, but it is really worth noting that presidents hadn't tended to come out and publicly threaten Iran that they will be bombed in a time-bound period if they don't capitulate to U.S. demands. 

You have had previous presidents, including Obama, say stuff to the effect of all options are on the table with respect to Iran. But it was seen as so obviously bellicose and so obviously impermissible diplomatically to come out and just blatantly threaten to bomb Iran. Why? Because, in the case of Obama, if there was some potential diplomatic arrangement in the offing, which Obama subsequently did attain in 2015, then running around threatening to bomb Iran might be an impediment to achieving that because it could cast aspersion, grave aspersions on the intentions of the United States and its attempt to interact with Iran. 

So, I actually went and asked a handful of people who are the wrong kind of policy experts, who are involved with Iran policy professionally and know the history of Iran and U.S. relations really well. I asked them: Is there a precedent of a U.S. president cavalierly coming out and just saying there will be bombing of Iran if X, Y and Z don't happen? And they say, “No, no, this is unique to Trump,” except for Trump's first term, when he did threaten, after the Soleimani assassination, in January 2020, to bomb Iranian cultural sites. But other than that, it's really not customary for presidents to be so bombastic in their public utterances with respect to Iran. 

There are certain ways in which Trump really does defy foreign policy convention in a salutary way. One hallmark example from the first term is when, after some initial bluster, he did initiate direct diplomatic relations with Kim Jong-un of North Korea. The negotiations with North Korea didn't ultimately result in a settlement because, for one thing, Trump and his administration at the time insisted on maximalist demands around denuclearization that North Korea, as a matter of national pride or even personal pride on the part of Kim, was never going to agree to but it did break a significant taboo for those direct talks to even happen in the first place. It likewise breaks a taboo for Trump to be threatening to bomb Iran so openly, pursuant to some cobbled-together negotiations, which it's not even clear are in particular good faith. 

So, that just is an indication of how it can be a double-edged sword meaning defying foreign policy convention can at times be salutary because foreign policy consensus is rife with failure, rife insular clique type thinking, and often revolves around people who have a demonstrable track record of myopia and “inhospitability” to criticism or contrary ways of thinking. So, Trump has at times the ability to disrupt that. But the double-edged sword is he could also say he's defying foreign policy convention because it hadn't previously been conventional to just be openly threatened to bomb Iran as he's doing now repeatedly in hopes, presumably, that it could result in some diplomatic settlement because Iran is just going to be so bludgeoned into submission that they're going to agree to maximalist demands imposed by Trump. But who knows? It could also be a pretext for war. Trump could say, “Look, we made every effort to negotiate with Iran. We even defied some convention by resuming high-level contacts between the U.S. and Iranian senior leadership, but they were so obstinate that we had no choice but to launch this bombing campaign with Israel that we've been threatening for weeks. And actually, even in the 2024 campaign, Trump threatened it publicly then. 

So, let's take a look at what Steve Witkoff, who is becoming an all-purpose Trump envoy, initially focused on the Middle East, and that is still his official title, but he's also leading negotiations with Putin in Russia. He was on Sean Hannity's show on April 14, and he was asked about these ongoing negotiations. 

There's an undercurrent of humor here because Sean Hannity would have blown a gasket in any other circumstance in which a senior U.S. official was trying to justify the utility of directly engaging with Iran. Namely, during the Obama administration, I can vividly recall Sean Hannity thinking that even the mere fact of talking to Iranian senior leadership was an abandonment of core American values or whatnot and giving credence to this Islamic terrorist regime or what have you. But nonetheless, of course, in the presence of Witkoff, he has to remain cordial. 

Anyway, Steve Witkoff here gives some details as to what the conditions might be to obtain a settlement with Iran. 

So, let's take a look at that. 

Video. Steve Witkoff, Sean Hannity. April 14, 2025.

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Trump Declares the War in Iran to Be His Own; Journalist Ken Klippenstein on Trump's War Plans, DC Dems, and More
System Update #470

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Ever since the Israelis attacked Iran on Thursday night, many of Donald Trump's most passionate supporters have raised questions about the extent to which Trump knew or was involved in this new war. In one sense, that concern is understandable. Many of them believe Trump's repeated promises for years to keep the U.S. out of new wars, especially new wars in the Middle East, and they did not want to believe that he had violated that promise so radically and so quickly, less than five months in office by sanctioning and involving the United States in a new war with Iran. 

But those denials have grown increasingly implausible every day as Trump has now boasted of his involvement and repeatedly made clear the central role that he and the United States played in the planning, launching and coordinating of this war. Whatever remaining doubts still lingered about whether Trump's role was as significant as he claimed were completely crushed by Trump himself today, as the President issued a series of tweets – one more unhinged and war-drunk than the next – proclaiming that we – "we" meaning the United States – now dominate and control the skies over Tehran. He also ordered the Iranians to accept the deal that he told them to sign, threatening them with serious devastation if they refused. 

We’ll also talk to the independent journalist Ken Klippenstein, who breaks many stories, genuinely breaking stories on his Substack, where he went after wisely deciding to quit the Intercept last year. He receives many leaks from sources inside the intelligence community – not the official and authorized leaks: those are for Barack Ravid at Axios – but he gets the unauthorized ones from mid-level or even low-level employees of the U.S. Government. 

Ken has a new story out tonight about war plans of Trump for Iran that were leaked to him, regarding the Israelis and the Americans' designs on Iran. We’ll discuss that as well as a variety of other issues concerning this brand-new war, various happenings in Washington, and more. 

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U.S. and Israel vs Iran: Repeating War on Iraq Scripts; Overwhelming Bipartisan Consensus for Israel's Wars
System Update #469

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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The war initiated by Israel against Iran last Thursday was dangerous from the start and has each day only become more dangerous. President Trump has boasted of his pre-war coordination with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He's already been using U.S. military assets to protect Israel. He's now even re-deploying aircraft carriers in the Pacific, where we're told they are guarding against America's greatest enemy – China – now to the Middle East, where Israel has demanded they go to support its war. 

Just a few minutes ago, President Trump ordered the 16 million people who live in Tehran to immediately evacuate a city where it's now 2 a.m. 

With Israel, as always, demanding more. Now, they want the U.S. planes and bombs to destroy Iran's underground nuclear facilities for them. The former Israeli defense minister went on CNN just an hour ago and told President Trump in the U.S. that it's our obligation to fight this war with them. And for them, President Trump has repeatedly opened the possibility of even greater U.S. involvement in the war. 

There are so many aspects of this new conflict worth covering and dissecting –and we will do so throughout the week – but tonight we want to focus on the amazing ease the U.S. government has in convincing its population to support whatever new war is presented to it. Over four years ago, intense war propaganda from the U.S. political class and media persuaded Americans to want to fund and arm the war in Ukraine – a war that is still dragging on with no favorable end in sight – and overnight huge numbers of people in the United States have suddenly become convinced without having ever said so previously that war with Iran is some sort of moral imperative as well as a strategic necessity for the survival of American citizens of the United States. 

No matter how debunked, discredited and disgraced that Iraq war narrative has become, as long as one just waits 20 or 25 years, then, apparently, that same script just works like magic all over again. You just haul it out, fearmongering, and huge numbers of people respond by saying, "Yes, let's go to war, let' kill people." 

We'll examine all of that, as well as the standard bipartisan unity in support of new American wars and especially wars involving Israel, you hear Democrats almost unanimously, either staying quiet or praising President Trump, with just a few exceptions from both parties. And we'll look at that as well. 

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If you're an American citizen as an adult, you have seen the United States repeatedly go to war. Anyone 18 or over has seen the United States involved in all sorts of wars and that's after the Iraq war, which is now 22 years ago. Essentially, if you're American, it means forever, for a long, long time, for many decades, that you are a citizen of a country that's always at war. 

After World War II, there was a very visible and clear pattern, which is that the U.S. government convinces its citizens, enough of them, to support the war at the beginning. They deluge them with war propaganda, which is extremely strong, primal, tribal and enough Americans initially support the war to let the U.S. government politically go and drop bombs or finance some other country to go drop bombs for it. Then, after six months, a year, or two years, or four years, polls show that Americans overwhelmingly oppose the war that they were convinced to support. Going back to the war in Vietnam, throughout the 1980s’ wars, the War on Terror in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Syria, in Libya, the financing of the war in Ukraine, Israel's destruction of Gaza, bombing Yemin and now this new war that the United States is becoming increasingly involved in, in lots of different ways and we're only on the fifth day.

You just see so many Americans on a dime the minute a new war is presented to them, with whatever pretext can be conjured, even if they're exactly the same pretext that most Americans lived through watching proved to be complete lies the last time it was used in 2003, even though it's exactly the same script, exactly the same pretext, coming from exactly the same people. You can get enough Americans to immediately stand up and start cheering for death and destruction and bombing. Not all, a very substantial minority oppose it, I think if the U.S. overtly gets even more involved in the war in Iran, obviously anything resembling ground troops entering Iran, but even perhaps prolonged bombing of Iran as well through U.S. jets and bombs, as President Trump has indicated and Israel has demanded, maybe some of that will erode, that support will erode. But all that's needed is enough support at the beginning of the war to let the government start it. And once the U.S. government enters the war, it doesn't matter anymore whether the people continue to support it; then it's just already done. All the normal arguments are assembled about why we can't stop, why we can't cut and run, why that would be appeasement, etc., etc. All the same scripts all the time, used over and over, and even though they get proven to be discredited, or unpersuasive, or full of lies, you just use the same ones each time. And that's how the United States stays as a country at war.

We've been hearing a lot of people saying, “Look, I'm happy that Israel is bombing Iran, as long as the U.S. has no involvement in the war, we don't enter it, we don't have to pay for it. As long as it's not our war, I'm fine with it.” But, of course, the entire Israeli military is funded by American taxpayers. Every time Israel has a new war, the weapons that it uses come from the United States, transferred to Israel. We pay for their wars, we arm their wars, we support diplomatically those wars and we use our military assets every single time and our intelligence apparatus to support and enable the war, as the United States is already doing. We already have multiple new U.S. military assets ordered to the region by President Trump. They're already active in protecting Israel from retaliation. President Trump openly said that he is considering the possibility of involving the U.S. even more directly in this war with Iran: "We're not involved in it. It's possible we could get involved. But we are not at this moment involved," the president said. (ABC News. June 15, 2025.)

That all depends on what you mean by ‘involved.’ We're paying for the war, we're arming the war, we've deployed military assets that are actively now trying to shoot down missiles coming from Iran as retaliation for the Israelis launching a completely unprovoked attack on Iran, based on the claim that Iran was about to get nuclear weapons, just weeks away, something they've been saying for 30 years, as we've shown you many times, same thing that was said in 2002. 

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U.S. Involvement in Israel's Iran Attack; the View from Tehran: Iranian Professor on Reactions to Strikes; CATO Analysts on Dangers and War Escalations

The following is an abridged transcript from System Update’s most recent episode. You can watch the full episode on Rumble or listen to it in podcast form on Apple, Spotify, or any other major podcast provider.  

System Update is an independent show free to all viewers and listeners, but that wouldn’t be possible without our loyal supporters. To keep the show free for everyone, please consider joining our Locals, where we host our members-only aftershow, publish exclusive articles, release these transcripts, and so much more!

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Today's most important news is obvious: Israel last night launched a major military assault on Iran, targeting residential buildings in Tehran, where military commanders and nuclear physicists live with their families, as well as bombing multiple nuclear facilities throughout the country. 

Triumphalist rhetoric flooded American and Israeli discourse almost immediately, until just a little bit ago, when a barrage of Iran's ballistic and hypersonic missiles began hitting Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and other major population centers. Escalation seems virtually inevitable at this point. The level of escalation – always the most dangerous question when a new war has started – is most certainly yet to be determined. 

Then there's the question of the role of the United States and President Trump in all of this. News reports from both the U.S. and Israeli media suggested this morning that Trump was working hand-in-hand with the Israelis to pretend that he was still optimistic about a diplomatic resolution with Tehran, but did so only as a ruse to convince the Iranians that Trump intended to restrain Israel and thus lure Iran into a false sense of security when, in fact, Trump was not only green-lighting the attack but actively working with the Israelis to launch it. President Trump's own statements today proudly boasting of the success of the attack, along with his own concrete actions such as ordering U.S. military assets into position to yet again defend Israel, strongly bolster those reports and clearly indicate a direct U.S. involvement in this war between Israel and Iran, a U.S. involvement that already exists and will almost certainly continue to grow over the next few days and perhaps few weeks and even months. 

We’ll speak to Professor Mohammad Marandi, who is in Tehran and has heard and witnessed a lot of what happened but also has some unique analysis from his role as an American Iranian scholar of foreign policy and to scholars Justin Logan and Jon Hoffman, from the Cato Institute, one of the very few think tanks in the United States, which has long counselled restraint and non-interventionism in U.S. foreign policy. 

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